The consensus suggests that our prospects in the short and long term do not look good with the present line up.
The option that must be considered is whether we go into a rebuild phase save we get stuck in purgatory just out of the eight in much the same manner as Richmond has for so many years.
If we choose to rebuild we would of course be best served by trading some of our older quality players for some draft picks and prospective player. If this is the case then it is arguable no player over say 25 should be considered off limits.
I for one would rather bite the bullet and rebuild otherwise the next 10 years are going to be hell.
Trade or Die
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jackal
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We need some harder players to allow our soft outside types to utilise their skills. Some poor efforts today that should not be ignored by the coaching staff.
What to do with Roo is the question? It's a huge issue and will define this club for the next decade. A decision has to be made and it's complex. I'm glad I'm not in the footy dept!
What to do with Roo is the question? It's a huge issue and will define this club for the next decade. A decision has to be made and it's complex. I'm glad I'm not in the footy dept!
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Little Dozer
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Little Dozer
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It is unfortunate, but football is a business and hard, ruthless decisions need to be made.bobmurray wrote:Unfortunately you may well be right,it's just not working as it is at the moment.....Little Dozer wrote:Definitely look to trade both Kosi and Riewoldt. Injury-prone, can't kick, no football smarts. Time to cash in.
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meher baba
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I think I've finally worked out what all this inane nonsense posted on saintsational about "trade him, trade them, trade them now, let's be ruthless, etc." is really all about.
Kosi and Riewoldt were disappointing yesterday, so everyone wants to trade them.
In other weeks it has been Dal: but Dal went ok yesterday, so not a pip about him.
I think some posters on this forum think that real life AFL has the same rules as fantasy football - or the way some Gen Y kids seem to treat relationships and cars these days - if you get sick of them after a few weeks, trade them in!!
Kindly excuse us ageing baby boomers if we'd rather talk about football in the real world.
Kosi and Riewoldt were disappointing yesterday, so everyone wants to trade them.
In other weeks it has been Dal: but Dal went ok yesterday, so not a pip about him.
I think some posters on this forum think that real life AFL has the same rules as fantasy football - or the way some Gen Y kids seem to treat relationships and cars these days - if you get sick of them after a few weeks, trade them in!!
Kindly excuse us ageing baby boomers if we'd rather talk about football in the real world.
"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into."
- Jonathan Swift
- Jonathan Swift
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Mr Magic
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Finally some sense!meher baba wrote:I think I've finally worked out what all this inane nonsense posted on saintsational about "trade him, trade them, trade them now, let's be ruthless, etc." is really all about.
Kosi and Riewoldt were disappointing yesterday, so everyone wants to trade them.
In other weeks it has been Dal: but Dal went ok yesterday, so not a pip about him.
I think some posters on this forum think that real life AFL has the same rules as fantasy football - or the way some Gen Y kids seem to treat relationships and cars these days - if you get sick of them after a few weeks, trade them in!!
Kindly excuse us ageing baby boomers if we'd rather talk about football in the real world.
I thought I had woken up in 'Wonderland'.
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Stephen Theodore
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Trading Rooy at the moment is plain stupid but trading Kosi is not. Please tell me the last time he played consistantly good footy. On another thread someone said he had the ability to be a top 5 player in the AFL. Well if 4 weeks makes a career then maybe but he has played 7 years and has been injury free now for nearly 2 years and seems to be going backwards.
If somehow we could get a high first round pick for him we must really think about it.
If somehow we could get a high first round pick for him we must really think about it.
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JeffDunne
If we were trading players based on consistency then Rob Harvey would be the only player we keep.
Given not a solitary individual on our list seems to be improving or playing near their best form, is it not a stretch to suggest that something other than the players themselves are at fault?
Surely our entire list can't be that bad or past their best?
Given not a solitary individual on our list seems to be improving or playing near their best form, is it not a stretch to suggest that something other than the players themselves are at fault?
Surely our entire list can't be that bad or past their best?
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SaintDippa
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What have people been smoking?
Trade Kosi and Roo?????????????
You would have to be kidding.
Yesterday the inside 50's were 58-57 (against). Differential similiar to every game this year. We need to change the way the inside 50 is delivered. Structure the forward line to a hit up lead rather than a 40-50m long entry.
Midfield slow. Maybe, but Geelong, Hawthorn and even the Dogs would look slow if they turned it over like we do.
Options? How about play Roo and Kosi as outside the F50 targets from half back and Schnider, Ferg (strong hands) and #44 with space inside the 50? All 3 are quick enough on a lead and good kicks.
Trade Kosi and Roo?????????????
You would have to be kidding.
Yesterday the inside 50's were 58-57 (against). Differential similiar to every game this year. We need to change the way the inside 50 is delivered. Structure the forward line to a hit up lead rather than a 40-50m long entry.
Midfield slow. Maybe, but Geelong, Hawthorn and even the Dogs would look slow if they turned it over like we do.
Options? How about play Roo and Kosi as outside the F50 targets from half back and Schnider, Ferg (strong hands) and #44 with space inside the 50? All 3 are quick enough on a lead and good kicks.
Yep get rid of our best forwards and bring in 2 midgets and a guy who kicked 4 points last week and had 2 kicks this week. That will solve the problem. You havent answered why Kosi should not be traded just said we must be kidding but why not look at a trade.SaintDippa wrote:What have people been smoking?
Trade Kosi and Roo?????????????
You would have to be kidding.
Yesterday the inside 50's were 58-57 (against). Differential similiar to every game this year. We need to change the way the inside 50 is delivered. Structure the forward line to a hit up lead rather than a 40-50m long entry.
Midfield slow. Maybe, but Geelong, Hawthorn and even the Dogs would look slow if they turned it over like we do.
Options? How about play Roo and Kosi as outside the F50 targets from half back and Schnider, Ferg (strong hands) and #44 with space inside the 50? All 3 are quick enough on a lead and good kicks.
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JeffDunne
If Kosi struggles the rest of the season, or even worse he gets injured, there'd be little point in trading him.
What we'd get wouldn't be worth taking and it would be giving someone a potential A grade talent for next to nix.
If we are going to rejuvenate the list it should be by freeing up positions by cutting/trading players that have shown us all they have. Form & confidence can be fixed, lack of talent can’t.
What we'd get wouldn't be worth taking and it would be giving someone a potential A grade talent for next to nix.
If we are going to rejuvenate the list it should be by freeing up positions by cutting/trading players that have shown us all they have. Form & confidence can be fixed, lack of talent can’t.
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brown-coat
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If Kosi is one of our best forwards we are in a huge deep pile of s***.plugger66 wrote:Yep get rid of our best forwards and bring in 2 midgets and a guy who kicked 4 points last week and had 2 kicks this week. That will solve the problem. You havent answered why Kosi should not be traded just said we must be kidding but why not look at a trade.SaintDippa wrote:What have people been smoking?
Trade Kosi and Roo?????????????
You would have to be kidding.
Yesterday the inside 50's were 58-57 (against). Differential similiar to every game this year. We need to change the way the inside 50 is delivered. Structure the forward line to a hit up lead rather than a 40-50m long entry.
Midfield slow. Maybe, but Geelong, Hawthorn and even the Dogs would look slow if they turned it over like we do.
Options? How about play Roo and Kosi as outside the F50 targets from half back and Schnider, Ferg (strong hands) and #44 with space inside the 50? All 3 are quick enough on a lead and good kicks.
Kosi is woeful.
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SaintDippa
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Kosi, IMO, is not suited inside the F50 the way we play. Where he has dominated is when Rucking/running free around the ground. No opposition ruck has the same motor.
With the way the ball has been entering, Roo never stands a chance. By the time the ball gets near the drop zone he's been held, dragged, chopped, pushed off the ball, been given a wedgie, molested and then the second defender jumps into him.
As to midgets, I agreed that Milne yesterday should have been able to outmark two defenders under a bomb and crumb around a 4 on two with one defender doing everything possible to push him away from the contest.
Ferg should be given more of a chance inside F50 in preference to Kosi. Faster and a strong grab. Better option if we persist in the current Gramplan of streaming through half back and then kaboom (bomb). Have not seen too much of Casey, but Allen an option?)
Trade Kosi? Trade Blake and Ruck Gardiner/Kosi.
With the way the ball has been entering, Roo never stands a chance. By the time the ball gets near the drop zone he's been held, dragged, chopped, pushed off the ball, been given a wedgie, molested and then the second defender jumps into him.
As to midgets, I agreed that Milne yesterday should have been able to outmark two defenders under a bomb and crumb around a 4 on two with one defender doing everything possible to push him away from the contest.
Ferg should be given more of a chance inside F50 in preference to Kosi. Faster and a strong grab. Better option if we persist in the current Gramplan of streaming through half back and then kaboom (bomb). Have not seen too much of Casey, but Allen an option?)
Trade Kosi? Trade Blake and Ruck Gardiner/Kosi.
You simply can't trade all those that we don't want on the list. If we don't want them then no other club will want them.
In order to get some high draft picks we need to trade off some quality players of value. Our trend is sliding down and any possible "next premiership team" will not have any current player 25 years or older.
With the two expansion teams coming in it will take even longer to gain high draft picks and thus turn this thing around. Our kids are not proven yet so therefore worth nothing in terms of trade bait. I hate to say it and would be hard to watch but anyone and everyone on the list at 25 or over should be up for grabs at the right price.
Please don't read this the wrong way. I would not get rid of players for the sake of youth youth youth. It would need to be of value to us.
Who could get us a high first round draft pick?
Roo
Dal
Still in the first round
Kosi ......maybe? He would complete the Bulldogs side.
From there the value players would be
Lenny
Dal
Sam Fisher
Ball
Maybe B.J and Joey
We delist a few that have consistently be spoken about on this forum and start again.
With the trade period being what it is only one or two of these possible trades would occur. The side would not be guttered. All I'm asking is what would you get for the above players and what would you take?
In order to get some high draft picks we need to trade off some quality players of value. Our trend is sliding down and any possible "next premiership team" will not have any current player 25 years or older.
With the two expansion teams coming in it will take even longer to gain high draft picks and thus turn this thing around. Our kids are not proven yet so therefore worth nothing in terms of trade bait. I hate to say it and would be hard to watch but anyone and everyone on the list at 25 or over should be up for grabs at the right price.
Please don't read this the wrong way. I would not get rid of players for the sake of youth youth youth. It would need to be of value to us.
Who could get us a high first round draft pick?
Roo
Dal
Still in the first round
Kosi ......maybe? He would complete the Bulldogs side.
From there the value players would be
Lenny
Dal
Sam Fisher
Ball
Maybe B.J and Joey
We delist a few that have consistently be spoken about on this forum and start again.
With the trade period being what it is only one or two of these possible trades would occur. The side would not be guttered. All I'm asking is what would you get for the above players and what would you take?
Remain educated on the game, stay loyal to St.Kilda
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Saints Premiers 2008
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i have said before we should look to trade both blake and l fisher as they have currency to other clubs, just not ours going forward
fisher is a tough body that would suit the bombers young side as he is himself still young...they need hard bodies to protect the good'uns
blake would be a good fit at carlton...they still need utilities that can do a decent job of most...he has no place at our football club going forward
why would we trade roo??? so his kicking at times is terrible but wasnt big buckets...yet he still kicked 594 goals and provided great foil for full forward...by the time roo is done he will have similar figures despite his poor kicking
kosi is still developing...granted he can play ruck...rucks take longer to develop as kpp's...some develop quicker than others granted...he has had a horrible injury list that still has set his development back...he is still coming into his own as a player and should not be traded
our list is not in the sape people perceive it to be in both on this forum and outside in the real world
the players we have coming through are good with a mixture of size, strength and skills...we have drafted well in the past two years and although we have not seen to many of them on the park they will be released slowly but surely
i believe our main issue is between our ears...
to have 9 scoring shots to 2 and only be up by 12 points at quarter time is simply not good enough...even if we were up by 4 goals instead of 2there would still be arguement for a waste infront of goal...
yesterdays game summed up our efforts over the previous 3 seasons at least under both coaches...good in patches although we do not develop a domination on the ground into constant scoreboard pressure...just getting into inside 50 means bugger all if you cant actually get it in the goal...
why we begin so wel and finish so well is beyond my comprehension...we kicked 9 out of our 11 goals in the first and last quarter...so for a combined half of footy that isnt too bad...however to kick 2 in the other combined half is again not good enough...to kick 9 then 2...a cause for concern....
end rant
fisher is a tough body that would suit the bombers young side as he is himself still young...they need hard bodies to protect the good'uns
blake would be a good fit at carlton...they still need utilities that can do a decent job of most...he has no place at our football club going forward
why would we trade roo??? so his kicking at times is terrible but wasnt big buckets...yet he still kicked 594 goals and provided great foil for full forward...by the time roo is done he will have similar figures despite his poor kicking
kosi is still developing...granted he can play ruck...rucks take longer to develop as kpp's...some develop quicker than others granted...he has had a horrible injury list that still has set his development back...he is still coming into his own as a player and should not be traded
our list is not in the sape people perceive it to be in both on this forum and outside in the real world
the players we have coming through are good with a mixture of size, strength and skills...we have drafted well in the past two years and although we have not seen to many of them on the park they will be released slowly but surely
i believe our main issue is between our ears...
to have 9 scoring shots to 2 and only be up by 12 points at quarter time is simply not good enough...even if we were up by 4 goals instead of 2there would still be arguement for a waste infront of goal...
yesterdays game summed up our efforts over the previous 3 seasons at least under both coaches...good in patches although we do not develop a domination on the ground into constant scoreboard pressure...just getting into inside 50 means bugger all if you cant actually get it in the goal...
why we begin so wel and finish so well is beyond my comprehension...we kicked 9 out of our 11 goals in the first and last quarter...so for a combined half of footy that isnt too bad...however to kick 2 in the other combined half is again not good enough...to kick 9 then 2...a cause for concern....
end rant
"It's a work in progress," Lyon said.
So you have come up with 2 trades. Fisher may but I doubt it get a late 3rd rounder Blake would get nothing so that will not improve the side in the long term. If we cannot win the flag in the next 5 years which I would think is right then we must look at trading some quality to get some younger quality.Saints Premiers 2008 wrote:i have said before we should look to trade both blake and l fisher as they have currency to other clubs, just not ours going forward
fisher is a tough body that would suit the bombers young side as he is himself still young...they need hard bodies to protect the good'uns
blake would be a good fit at carlton...they still need utilities that can do a decent job of most...he has no place at our football club going forward
why would we trade roo??? so his kicking at times is terrible but wasnt big buckets...yet he still kicked 594 goals and provided great foil for full forward...by the time roo is done he will have similar figures despite his poor kicking
kosi is still developing...granted he can play ruck...rucks take longer to develop as kpp's...some develop quicker than others granted...he has had a horrible injury list that still has set his development back...he is still coming into his own as a player and should not be traded
our list is not in the sape people perceive it to be in both on this forum and outside in the real world
the players we have coming through are good with a mixture of size, strength and skills...we have drafted well in the past two years and although we have not seen to many of them on the park they will be released slowly but surely
i believe our main issue is between our ears...
to have 9 scoring shots to 2 and only be up by 12 points at quarter time is simply not good enough...even if we were up by 4 goals instead of 2there would still be arguement for a waste infront of goal...
yesterdays game summed up our efforts over the previous 3 seasons at least under both coaches...good in patches although we do not develop a domination on the ground into constant scoreboard pressure...just getting into inside 50 means bugger all if you cant actually get it in the goal...
why we begin so wel and finish so well is beyond my comprehension...we kicked 9 out of our 11 goals in the first and last quarter...so for a combined half of footy that isnt too bad...however to kick 2 in the other combined half is again not good enough...to kick 9 then 2...a cause for concern....
end rant