We have to move forward NOW

[Teflon]

As tough as it is swallowing the fact that any chance for a flag we had is gone - we have to. We arent a top 8 side right now IMHO we do not deserve to displace Nth and make 8 (not that we will). Carlton will overtake us shortly and perhaps have already in many ways....

The good news is we NOW know it. The reality is we arent gonna tank this year, get a top draft pick and bounce back up the ladder aka Geelong 06. Our problems run deeper in my view. Its attitude, skills, coaching all rolled into one and the fix has to be long term. The "core" of a good side is there but we have to trade tough NOW and over the next few years as the GC team will take draft cream.

So we have to:

1 trade for higher picks as much as possible
2. look for salary cap room for a crack at a Kerr type if he available....

Our recruitment of future players HAS to have 1 key requirement = FOOT SKILLS/run and carry.

Heres what else Id do as prez/coach:

1. Not sack the coach
2. Continue to play the future (ensure McEvoy et al got a game) - Im not interested in just making 8 - development is MORE important now.
3. Remove J Barker
4. Load up for more rookies next year (as much as I can) and speak about recruitment needs to recruiting head NOW. Scour for rookie options as soon as possible.
5. As for end season list management....its far easier if I speak in terms of who is safe (excluding kids who we havent seen yet)

Hayes
Ball,
Dal Santo
Riewoldt
Armo
Harvs/Max
Goddard
S Fisher
Gilbert

The rebuild wont be finished next year. We have some tough decisions.

[Buckets]

If that is the case then we will not see any finals action for the next 15 years! Hell i reckon this club will fold before then if that is the case!

The fact is that if we are basing this on draft picks for the next few years it is going to be amazingly tough due to the new clubs coming in over the course of the next 5 years. It is the worst possible predicament for the club to be in. To be totally honest yes your right about Barker however the buck in the end stops with Lyon and if he cant see that our forward line is not functioning properly then he must at least take some responsibility for that. He for once actually needs to put his hand up and say look it wasn't the best and i made the error now i have to fix it! If he did that then hell he would win some respect from me!

[SaintWal]

Some good ideas Teflon.

But 24 hours before the titanic sunk Edward Smith was the best captain ever.

Time to stop moving deck chairs and point the ship in the right direction.

Barker is a good start. Pity Trevor is not available (in all respect)

[Teflon]

If that is the case then we will not see any finals action for the next 15 years! Hell i reckon this club will fold before then if that is the case!

Lets have your alternative you flog?

Or do you only deal in "sack the coach" drivel???

[meher baba]

Interesting list of players who are "safe" in your opinion, Teffers. Only one of them, Armitage, was recruited since Lyon arrived at the club.

And you've decided to keep as many as 10 players on our list? Are you sure that you have cleaned out the cupboard sufficiently? Take Harves for example: hasn't he had long enough now to show whether he is going to be the sort of player that can take us to a flag?

And it's interesting to see that Barker has now become the new scapegoat for everything that has gone wrong with our onfield performance. Apparently Lyon isn't to blame for our inability to dispose of the ball properly, but Barker is entirely to blame for our inability to kick straight!!

Best of all, I like your main prescriptions for getting us up to scratch again:

(a) trade away our future for a 25 year old with disciplinary problems from the club currently lying 13th on the table; and
(b) retain Ross Lyon as coach.

Yep, that should just about do it.

[Teflon]

Interesting list of players who are "safe" in your opinion, Teffers. Only one of them, Armitage, was recruited since Lyon arrived at the club.

And you've decided to keep as many as 10 players on our list? Are you sure that you have cleaned out the cupboard sufficiently? Take Harves for example: hasn't he had long enough now to show whether he is going to be the sort of player that can take us to a flag?

And it's interesting to see that Barker has now become the new scapegoat for everything that has gone wrong with our onfield performance. Apparently Lyon isn't to blame for our inability to dispose of the ball properly, but Barker is entirely to blame for our inability to kick straight!!

Best of all, I like your main prescriptions for getting us up to scratch again:

(a) trade away our future for a 25 year old with disciplinary problems from the club currently lying 13th on the table; and
(b) retain Ross Lyon as coach.

Yep, that should just about do it.

Your a flog of the highest Babble - contribute an intelligent thought or f@Rk off its that easy.

Seriously suggesting:

1 weve seen enough of ALL Lyons recruits to make an assessment and
2 Mentioning the relevance of Harvey in a thread about OUR FUTURE
demonstrates to me and many others that you not only fail to grasp the concept of a thread because your so enthralled in your "GT must come back" delusions.

Seriously your to stup!d to bother with so please refrain from responding to my posts.

BTW - I note once again you crawl out from your gutter to revel in a defeat - again go follow Richmond yiou daft clown.

[Buckets]

If that is the case then we will not see any finals action for the next 15 years! Hell i reckon this club will fold before then if that is the case!

Lets have your alternative you flog?

Or do you only deal in "sack the coach" drivel???

Look at the post again Teflon i re edited however call me names again and i might need to talk to the mods. If you cant handle the opposition don't post simple really. Calling people names is a sign of weakness and i would rather a debate with you not name calling!

[meher baba]

Interesting list of players who are "safe" in your opinion, Teffers. Only one of them, Armitage, was recruited since Lyon arrived at the club.

And you've decided to keep as many as 10 players on our list? Are you sure that you have cleaned out the cupboard sufficiently? Take Harves for example: hasn't he had long enough now to show whether he is going to be the sort of player that can take us to a flag?

And it's interesting to see that Barker has now become the new scapegoat for everything that has gone wrong with our onfield performance. Apparently Lyon isn't to blame for our inability to dispose of the ball properly, but Barker is entirely to blame for our inability to kick straight!!

Best of all, I like your main prescriptions for getting us up to scratch again:

(a) trade away our future for a 25 year old with disciplinary problems from the club currently lying 13th on the table; and
(b) retain Ross Lyon as coach.

Yep, that should just about do it.

Your a flog of the highest Babble - contribute an intelligent thought or f@Rk off its that easy.

Seriously suggesting:

1 weve seen enough of ALL Lyons recruits to make an assessment and
2 Mentioning the relevance of Harvey in a thread about OUR FUTURE
demonstrates to me and many others that you not only fail to grasp the concept of a thread because your so enthralled in your "GT must come back" delusions.

Seriously your to stup!d to bother with so please refrain from responding to my posts.

BTW - I note once again you crawl out from your gutter to revel in a defeat - again go follow Richmond yiou daft clown.

Come on Teffers, say it with me. It will set you free. "Lyon is a dud".

BTW, you were the one who put Harvey in your list for 2009 (or, at least, "Harvey/Max": I'm not quite sure what you meant by that. Do you mean that, in the unlikely event that Harvey decides to play on for another season, we should delist Max?)

[Teflon]

If that is the case then we will not see any finals action for the next 15 years! Hell i reckon this club will fold before then if that is the case!

Lets have your alternative you flog?

Or do you only deal in "sack the coach" drivel???

Look at the post again Teflon i re edited however call me names again and i might need to talk to the mods. If you cant handle the opposition don't post simple really. Calling people names is a sign of weakness and i would rather a debate with you not name calling!

If you want a debate put up an alternative. You havent and you dont and you know it.

I mean you post nothing but a negative response, offer NOTHING constructive (you think sacking the coach is our 1 great hope... ) and then run whingeing to mods ?

Seriously if you wanted to "debate" you'd have put an alternative - where is it?

I look forward to your "our future approach" - cant wait. Get cracking big boy....if you fail am I allowed to go whingeing to mods?

[meher baba]

If that is the case then we will not see any finals action for the next 15 years! Hell i reckon this club will fold before then if that is the case!

Lets have your alternative you flog?

Or do you only deal in "sack the coach" drivel???

Look at the post again Teflon i re edited however call me names again and i might need to talk to the mods. If you cant handle the opposition don't post simple really. Calling people names is a sign of weakness and i would rather a debate with you not name calling!

If you want a debate put up an alternative. You havent and you dont and you know it.

I mean you post nothing but a negative response, offer NOTHING constructive (you think sacking the coach is our 1 great hope... ) and then run whingeing to mods ?

Seriously if you wanted to "debate" you'd have put an alternative - where is it?

I look forward to your "our future approach" - cant wait. Get cracking big boy....if you fail am I allowed to go whingeing to mods?

Come on Teffers, set yourself free....Say it with me.....

[Teflon]

Interesting list of players who are "safe" in your opinion, Teffers. Only one of them, Armitage, was recruited since Lyon arrived at the club.

And you've decided to keep as many as 10 players on our list? Are you sure that you have cleaned out the cupboard sufficiently? Take Harves for example: hasn't he had long enough now to show whether he is going to be the sort of player that can take us to a flag?

And it's interesting to see that Barker has now become the new scapegoat for everything that has gone wrong with our onfield performance. Apparently Lyon isn't to blame for our inability to dispose of the ball properly, but Barker is entirely to blame for our inability to kick straight!!

Best of all, I like your main prescriptions for getting us up to scratch again:

(a) trade away our future for a 25 year old with disciplinary problems from the club currently lying 13th on the table; and
(b) retain Ross Lyon as coach.

Yep, that should just about do it.

Your a flog of the highest Babble - contribute an intelligent thought or f@Rk off its that easy.

Seriously suggesting:

1 weve seen enough of ALL Lyons recruits to make an assessment and
2 Mentioning the relevance of Harvey in a thread about OUR FUTURE
demonstrates to me and many others that you not only fail to grasp the concept of a thread because your so enthralled in your "GT must come back" delusions.

Seriously your to stup!d to bother with so please refrain from responding to my posts.

BTW - I note once again you crawl out from your gutter to revel in a defeat - again go follow Richmond yiou daft clown.

Come on Teffers, say it with me. It will set you free. "Lyon is a dud".

BTW, you were the one who put Harvey in your list for 2009 (or, at least, "Harvey/Max": I'm not quite sure what you meant by that. Do you mean that, in the unlikely event that Harvey decides to play on for another season, we should delist Max?)

And still leeching of another post and NOT 1 ORIGINAL thought in their babblelots?

As I say you love it when St Kilda lose - go follow Richmond.

[meher baba]

Interesting list of players who are "safe" in your opinion, Teffers. Only one of them, Armitage, was recruited since Lyon arrived at the club.

And you've decided to keep as many as 10 players on our list? Are you sure that you have cleaned out the cupboard sufficiently? Take Harves for example: hasn't he had long enough now to show whether he is going to be the sort of player that can take us to a flag?

And it's interesting to see that Barker has now become the new scapegoat for everything that has gone wrong with our onfield performance. Apparently Lyon isn't to blame for our inability to dispose of the ball properly, but Barker is entirely to blame for our inability to kick straight!!

Best of all, I like your main prescriptions for getting us up to scratch again:

(a) trade away our future for a 25 year old with disciplinary problems from the club currently lying 13th on the table; and
(b) retain Ross Lyon as coach.

Yep, that should just about do it.

Your a flog of the highest Babble - contribute an intelligent thought or f@Rk off its that easy.

Seriously suggesting:

1 weve seen enough of ALL Lyons recruits to make an assessment and
2 Mentioning the relevance of Harvey in a thread about OUR FUTURE
demonstrates to me and many others that you not only fail to grasp the concept of a thread because your so enthralled in your "GT must come back" delusions.

Seriously your to stup!d to bother with so please refrain from responding to my posts.

BTW - I note once again you crawl out from your gutter to revel in a defeat - again go follow Richmond yiou daft clown.

Come on Teffers, say it with me. It will set you free. "Lyon is a dud".

BTW, you were the one who put Harvey in your list for 2009 (or, at least, "Harvey/Max": I'm not quite sure what you meant by that. Do you mean that, in the unlikely event that Harvey decides to play on for another season, we should delist Max?)

And still leeching of another post and NOT 1 ORIGINAL thought in their babblelots?

As I say you love it when St Kilda lose - go follow Richmond.

So you reckon Lyon is NOT a dud? Pray tell us why, exactly. Because I'm afraid it isn't exactly bleeding obvious to me, or to most other posters on SS.

And you still haven't explained what you meant by "Harvey/Max". Well, I suppose at least that was original. And originality is what you are always striving for, isn't it Teffers!?

BTW, FWIW (and sundry other acronyms), I was devastated when we lost this arvo. However, unlike you, I don't immediately turn on our players. I simply turn on the coach and the imbeciles who put him there (oh dear, I've probably offended you, because one of the imbeciles was possibly your beloved daddy. Oh dear, sorry about that.)

[Buckets]

If that is the case then we will not see any finals action for the next 15 years! Hell i reckon this club will fold before then if that is the case!

Lets have your alternative you flog?

Or do you only deal in "sack the coach" drivel???

Look at the post again Teflon i re edited however call me names again and i might need to talk to the mods. If you cant handle the opposition don't post simple really. Calling people names is a sign of weakness and i would rather a debate with you not name calling!

If you want a debate put up an alternative. You havent and you dont and you know it.

I mean you post nothing but a negative response, offer NOTHING constructive (you think sacking the coach is our 1 great hope... ) and then run whingeing to mods ?

Seriously if you wanted to "debate" you'd have put an alternative - where is it?

I look forward to your "our future approach" - cant wait. Get cracking big boy....if you fail am I allowed to go whingeing to mods?

Oh how big off you Teflon, still calling me the names! Did you even read the post did it say sack him...NO What it did say however that it is time for him to put the hand up in regards to a few thing i.e Barker and say look my error i will fix it. Instead all you get is him placing the blame on the players constantly and not taking any himself. No GT will never come back and that is a good thing! But hiding behind him changes nothing either. Today was a great example he would have known that King was not a certain starter yet where was Big Mac on the emergency list?? Lets bring in Fergo and play him down back when he is a forward. Do you get where i am coming from? I am totally disappointed in where the team is at, however i do not believe that we are getting the maximum out of the players. Now that comes down to both PLAYERS(Holy hell i blamed the players ) AND COACH yet all we get are excuses, there is no way a Malthouse or Matthews would allow for the lack of respect that is shown on the field! If Lyon can't do that now what make you think that he can in the future?

[Teflon]

Buckets - where have I called you names in my above post????

That aside.......THE REASON Matthews/Malthouse get the best from their lists is IMHO for 2 reasons:

They select players with the skills to deliver (see Didak, Thomas, Powell, etc) AND they can DEVELOP lessor players. IMO the second part is the key and Lyons has 1 yr to do this. We are struggling for depth right now cause weve had nothing outside our top draft picks/high trades come through for years.

I agree Lyon needs to do something about Barker - hes a failure and should go. But as a club we have to FINALLY demand some player mental toughness and stop copping out and sacking coaches.

Sick of that lame, lazy knee jerk reaction.

[meher baba]

I agree Lyon needs to do something about Barker - hes a failure and should go. But as a club we have to FINALLY demand some player mental toughness and stop copping out and sacking coaches.

Sick of that lame, lazy knee jerk reaction.

That's right, no lame, lazy, knee jerk reaction about coaches.

Except for Barker, of course.

[Buckets]

Buckets - where have I called you names in my above post????

That aside.......THE REASON Matthews/Malthouse get the best from their lists is IMHO for 2 reasons:

They select players with the skills to deliver (see Didak, Thomas, Powell, etc) AND they can DEVELOP lessor players. IMO the second part is the key and Lyons has 1 yr to do this. We are struggling for depth right now cause weve had nothing outside our top draft picks/high trades come through for years.

I agree Lyon needs to do something about Barker - hes a failure and should go. But as a club we have to FINALLY demand some player mental toughness and stop copping out and sacking coaches.
Sick of that lame, lazy knee jerk reaction.

That is where we at least agree. Barker needs to go, but there needs to be some sign of taking responsibility by Lyon instead of passing the buck. I think that is what i am getting frustrated over. His unwillingness to put his hand up and say that he hasn't been doing his job to the full. He is far too defensive when it comes to criticism and continually talks about his previous club he needs to realise that he is the Head Coach of the St Kilda Football Club and he needs to make it known that he will be the one in charge! Until that happens i cannot see Lyon being the man to take us to the next level. Do i have the answers....hell i wish i would be making a mint at the moment if i was!

[Teflon]

Buckets - where have I called you names in my above post????

That aside.......THE REASON Matthews/Malthouse get the best from their lists is IMHO for 2 reasons:

They select players with the skills to deliver (see Didak, Thomas, Powell, etc) AND they can DEVELOP lessor players. IMO the second part is the key and Lyons has 1 yr to do this. We are struggling for depth right now cause weve had nothing outside our top draft picks/high trades come through for years.

I agree Lyon needs to do something about Barker - hes a failure and should go. But as a club we have to FINALLY demand some player mental toughness and stop copping out and sacking coaches.
Sick of that lame, lazy knee jerk reaction.

That is where we at least agree. Barker needs to go, but there needs to be some sign of taking responsibility by Lyon instead of passing the buck. I think that is what i am getting frustrated over. His unwillingness to put his hand up and say that he hasn't been doing his job to the full. He is far too defensive when it comes to criticism and continually talks about his previous club he needs to realise that he is the Head Coach of the St Kilda Football Club and he needs to make it known that he will be the one in charge! Until that happens i cannot see Lyon being the man to take us to the next level. Do i have the answers....hell i wish i would be making a mint at the moment if i was!

Sorry but Lyon putting his hand up and admitting its "his fault" does nothing for me.

Last coach did that weekly and that got us nowhere.

I like Lyons approach - the heat needs to be on the players who cant kick a goal from a set shot direct in front from 30 - and it happens weekly.

Im not interested in words - Im interested in players executing on field and NOT bucthering the footy.

[Buckets]

Buckets - where have I called you names in my above post????

That aside.......THE REASON Matthews/Malthouse get the best from their lists is IMHO for 2 reasons:

They select players with the skills to deliver (see Didak, Thomas, Powell, etc) AND they can DEVELOP lessor players. IMO the second part is the key and Lyons has 1 yr to do this. We are struggling for depth right now cause weve had nothing outside our top draft picks/high trades come through for years.

I agree Lyon needs to do something about Barker - hes a failure and should go. But as a club we have to FINALLY demand some player mental toughness and stop copping out and sacking coaches.
Sick of that lame, lazy knee jerk reaction.

That is where we at least agree. Barker needs to go, but there needs to be some sign of taking responsibility by Lyon instead of passing the buck. I think that is what i am getting frustrated over. His unwillingness to put his hand up and say that he hasn't been doing his job to the full. He is far too defensive when it comes to criticism and continually talks about his previous club he needs to realise that he is the Head Coach of the St Kilda Football Club and he needs to make it known that he will be the one in charge! Until that happens i cannot see Lyon being the man to take us to the next level. Do i have the answers....hell i wish i would be making a mint at the moment if i was!

Sorry but Lyon putting his hand up and admitting its "his fault" does nothing for me.

Last coach did that weekly and that got us nowhere.

I like Lyons approach - the heat needs to be on the players who cant kick a goal from a set shot direct in front from 30 - and it happens weekly.

Im not interested in words - Im interested in players executing on field and NOT bucthering the footy.

But what heat is really being exerted on to the players. We constantly have players come out and claim that his attacks weren't directed at them. How many coach's in the AFL would allow that? How many significant players has he dropped to make a point? He dropped what Fiora...WOW big named player to drop there! He has yet to really prove that he is tough enough with the group! That is of course my opinion however i get the feeling that there are more like me getting frustrated at the weaknesses shown at the moment.

[Teflon]

Buckets - where have I called you names in my above post????


But what heat is really being exerted on to the players. We constantly have players come out and claim that his attacks weren't directed at them. How many coach's in the AFL would allow that? How many significant players has he dropped to make a point? He dropped what Fiora...WOW big named player to drop there! He has yet to really prove that he is tough enough with the group! That is of course my opinion however i get the feeling that there are more like me getting frustrated at the weaknesses shown at the moment.

Couple of points:

1. We have NOT "continuously" had players saying the coaches comments arent directed at them. We had Riewoldt - FACT. So lets not gild the lilly shall we?

2. Since when do you start dropping big name players to make points while your still attempting to play finals? You drop players to change a line up to win games.

3. We are ALL frustrated atm. Im sure Lyon is more furstrated than anyone and he had some improvements to make BUT we simply have a side that aint up to it and the sooner people stop deluding themselves and get their head ariound that and start focussing on what needs to be done to improve our list the better.

BTW Lyons not scott free here - hes got his contract term IMO to assess his fate and should things still be ordinary we then move on.

[Buckets]

Buckets - where have I called you names in my above post????


But what heat is really being exerted on to the players. We constantly have players come out and claim that his attacks weren't directed at them. How many coach's in the AFL would allow that? How many significant players has he dropped to make a point? He dropped what Fiora...WOW big named player to drop there! He has yet to really prove that he is tough enough with the group! That is of course my opinion however i get the feeling that there are more like me getting frustrated at the weaknesses shown at the moment.

Couple of points:

1. We have NOT "continuously" had players saying the coaches comments arent directed at them. We had Riewoldt - FACT. So lets not gild the lilly shall we?

2. Since when do you start dropping big name players to make points while your still attempting to play finals? You drop players to change a line up to win games.

3. We are ALL frustrated atm. Im sure Lyon is more furstrated than anyone and he had some improvements to make BUT we simply have a side that aint up to it and the sooner people stop deluding themselves and get their head ariound that and start focussing on what needs to be done to improve our list the better.

BTW Lyons not scott free here - hes got his contract term IMO to assess his fate and should things still be ordinary we then move on.

In the same week as Roos comments Dal also cam e out and tried his best to distance himself from the rest of the group, this in the week when the heat for once was well and trully on the club.

You have suggested that we were not good enough for the finals for a few weeks now so what is stopping Lyon from dropping players? Yet there are coach's who have dropped the named players to make a point! Hell Steve Johnson ring a bell? And that was at the start of the season.

If you have known all this time that the team wasn't good enough then why hasn't someone told Ross?

[meher baba]

Buckets - where have I called you names in my above post????


But what heat is really being exerted on to the players. We constantly have players come out and claim that his attacks weren't directed at them. How many coach's in the AFL would allow that? How many significant players has he dropped to make a point? He dropped what Fiora...WOW big named player to drop there! He has yet to really prove that he is tough enough with the group! That is of course my opinion however i get the feeling that there are more like me getting frustrated at the weaknesses shown at the moment.

Couple of points:

1. We have NOT "continuously" had players saying the coaches comments arent directed at them. We had Riewoldt - FACT. So lets not gild the lilly shall we?

2. Since when do you start dropping big name players to make points while your still attempting to play finals? You drop players to change a line up to win games.

3. We are ALL frustrated atm. Im sure Lyon is more furstrated than anyone and he had some improvements to make BUT we simply have a side that aint up to it and the sooner people stop deluding themselves and get their head ariound that and start focussing on what needs to be done to improve our list the better.

BTW Lyons not scott free here - hes got his contract term IMO to assess his fate and should things still be ordinary we then move on.

In the same week as Roos comments Dal also cam e out and tried his best to distance himself from the rest of the group, this in the week when the heat for once was well and trully on the club.

You have suggested that we were not good enough for the finals for a few weeks now so what is stopping Lyon from dropping players? Yet there are coach's who have dropped the named players to make a point! Hell Steve Johnson ring a bell? And that was at the start of the season.

If you have known all this time that the team wasn't good enough then why hasn't someone told Ross?

Hey, Buckets, you'd better not keep arguing with him for too much longer or he'll go to the mods and ask them to ban you for stalking him.