I love the Saints..... but gee.... if only....

[JeffDunne]

So now it's mental?

I thought our list was crap and we needed to rebuild?


Hang on I'll wait . . . it's almost Sunday.

I'm sure by then the position will change and we'll be back to the list is crap and we need to rebuild.

[Teflon]

So now it's mental?

I thought our list was crap and we needed to rebuild?


Hang on I'll wait . . . it's almost Sunday.

I'm sure by then the position will change and we'll be back to the list is crap and we need to rebuild.

Sp football doesnt contain an element of mental application? its just about lists???? OR MAYBE life aint black and white Jeffery.....and there's some of both to it?

C'mon.....I know your annoyed SR owned you in other threads but even you aint that stupid.....
Nothing to contribute Jeffster?

Alas...once again a good thread about to be hijacked........and still not an original thought that actually adds to the discussion from your brainless head?

Must have basketball in the morning and a hectic schedule with the clients.... I hope you dont charge by the hour....whats the profession? "Life Skills With Jeff?"......

[JeffDunne]

Like I said in the other thread Teffers, you're nothing if not predictable. Take the abuse to the other please and spare us the sanctimonious claptrap.

FWIW, of course I think it's mental.

It's my main criticism of Lyon as a coach and has been for most of this season.

It's actually quite funny that I'm accused of being negative when I think we have the talent to challenge.

[Teflon]

Like I said in the other thread Teffers, you're nothing if not predictable. Take the abuse to the other please and spare us the sanctimonious claptrap.

FWIW, of course I think it's mental.

It's my main criticism of Lyon as a coach and has been for most of this season.

It's actually quite funny that I'm accused of being negative when I think we have the talent to challenge.

How can we have the "talent to challenge" if you freely admit that we have players mentally inept?...surely the "talent to challenge" MUST include players with the right mental attitude? the right professionalism and dedication to prepare themselves for a game at the highest level?

I read with interest Allan Jeans discussing what set the 89 Hawthorn side apart...in his view they had as a collective group a strong sense of self esteem and individual pride in performance and desire to PLAY for the jumper. In short - outside of the coach - the players hated losing. Do we have that? and if not how then can we possibly have the "talent to challenge"....????.....you that thick to believe that real talent doesnt include the total package - both skills/attitude?????...if it doesnt...can it be construed as real "talent to challenge" think about it Jeff before responding....

Now before you bang on about the coach - who clearly has a role in this area lets be clear - the BEST motivation comes from within, from the individual. Lyon has to get the group up...but there's only so much he alone can do before at what is the elite level - players take some responsibility OR in Jeffs world is that ALL the coaches responsibility?

[JeffDunne]

If you're going to debate can you please respond to what I write and not what you think I said.

"Mentally inept"?

Where did you pull that from?

I said our problem was mental but that has nothing to do with our players being "mentally inept".

Just over 12 months ago the entire football world would have questioned Geelong's mental application. Hawthorn too. Hell, 6 months ago people were questioning the Bulldogs. Actually I think it was probably closer to a week or two ago.

"Mentally inept"? Give me a break.

[JeffDunne]

Oh, FWIW, the '89 Hawthorn team had played almost a decade of grand finals.

By '89 even you could have coached them to a GF.

[JeffDunne]

I just noticed it's Sunday so I better be quick.

Since you're into quoting coaches Teffers here's a gem for you.

I presume you know who Vince Lombardi was?

Coaches who can outline plays on a black board are a dime a dozen. The ones who win get inside their player and motivate.

[Teflon]

Oh, FWIW, the '89 Hawthorn team had played almost a decade of grand finals.

By '89 even you could have coached them to a GF.

Jeans didnt say "we had a really experienced group...so therefore their attituide was good..." f@rk me....

HE SAID their attitude was already one of "high self esteem, determination and pride in playing for the jumper" - your confusing attitude you clown with experience.......

Again...slowly for you - THE BEST MOTIVATION COMES FROM THE INDIVIDUAL - do you disagree with this Jeffery???? (very simple question....)

[Teflon]

FWIW, of course I think it's mental.

It's my main criticism of Lyon as a coach and has been for most of this season.

Ok just so you cant claim your not being misquoted again lets be clear.

The problems mental?

And resolving that lies totally with the coach?...

[Teflon]

I just noticed it's Sunday so I better be quick.

Since you're into quoting coaches Teffers here's a gem for you.

I presume you know who Vince Lombardi was?

Coaches who can outline plays on a black board are a dime a dozen. The ones who win get inside their player and motivate.

Thats an insult.

Lombards are a Melbourne instution and still going strong today...

Must dig up some International "Jeff legend" with a bunch of cliches to suggest Ive an opinion.....OR...I could just settle for Yabby Jeans......

[Winmar7Fan]

smiling here .... .it seems anyone who questions that St Kilda are not a 1000% fantastic footy club should be condemned to death...

enjoy the view through the rose colored glasses people... i'm sure your very own little premiership is in your next wet dream

Hang on seaford....not everyone dimissed what your saying......IMHO our problems are absolutely mental issues - that sets us apart at present from Dogs, Nth an Swans.

Totally agree.

[The Fireman]

[BAM! (shhhh)]

ugh the shinboner spirit please... i guess sydney have the shinboner spirit too... they come back alot, far more competitive than kangas... does anyone say that about them? no... shinboner spirit makes me ill that term...

There may not be an annoying name for it with Sydney (thankfully the media's obsession with the bloods has died down)... but yes, Sydney has exactly the same thing.

If the Saints had that kind of will to compete, they'd be a much better team. I think that was the point of the OP, and I have to admit I found myself thinking the same thing watching the Friday night game.

[Saints43]

...surely the "talent to challenge" MUST include players with the right mental attitude? the right professionalism and dedication to prepare themselves for a game at the highest level?

I think that's right but - and we are going over old ground again I s'pose - I think we are in for some lean years if we leave preperation and getting mentally right to 22 players each week.

I believe a large part of a coach's job is to identify and resolve poor attitude when required. It won't be the same players each week.

I loved Darryl Wakelin when he played for us. I don't think that anyone would question his attitude and preperation for the majority of his career for us or his subsequent successful career at Port. But, in the second half of 2000 he just stopped playing. He didn't give a rat's anymore. He was sick of our club and, I would think, the coach.

I reckon that if we think that on any given weekend we will have 22 self motivated/self managed stroll into TD we are fooling ourelves.

[hilairehinshelwood]

Plugger, I would humbly suggest that given we went into the Collingwood game without our Captain (and CHF), our best tagger/small defender and X, that we would have been the underdog and expected to not win by most pundits.
Doesn't that put us in a similar position to where NM found themeselves prior to last night?
And your point about us getting smashed by Brisbane 1 game later?
I believe Collingwood's next game after us was against the same 'red hot Geelong' that NM showed so much 'shinboner spirit' against. Please remind me how that ended up?

Too many on here quick to criticize us for anything and not quick enough to compliment us when we do some things well. That's the point I'm trying to make.

If you are using Collingwood as the benchmark team, to beat from a few points behind, then here's a question for you. Which team came back from 20 odd points down with 10 minutes left to beat Collingwood this year?

The OP is making a valid point, whereby st kilda have lacked passion and playing as a team which even ross lyon has read the riot act about.
If you are blind to the problems and won't address them then saints are not going anywhere. To me a forum is a whingeboard and not a sycophantic worshipping of mediocrity. Give praise when it's due not devaluing it by obediantely dishing it out regardless of how well the saints performed.

i've been to a few north games with their supporters and whether they win lose or draw their games have been much more entertaining than saints this year, in part due to their never say die attitude.

[saintsRrising]

To win games of football consistently against good opponents you need to get many things right.

I do not think that there is any doubt that o the "mental" side of things that of late that both players and coaches at St Kilda need to lift their game.

It is not one or he other...

Banger is an example of someone who just ploughs on at the highest level regardless....

However he is exceptional. Many if not most players need the coach to get them to their highest level.

Some players just will never make it though...or if they do...it will be only briefly.

Fiora is prabably an example of a player who has all the "physical" tools to be a very good player. But who 'mentally" just has not got what it takes to be truly good on a week in week out basis.

[Mr Magic]

Plugger, I would humbly suggest that given we went into the Collingwood game without our Captain (and CHF), our best tagger/small defender and X, that we would have been the underdog and expected to not win by most pundits.
Doesn't that put us in a similar position to where NM found themeselves prior to last night?
And your point about us getting smashed by Brisbane 1 game later?
I believe Collingwood's next game after us was against the same 'red hot Geelong' that NM showed so much 'shinboner spirit' against. Please remind me how that ended up?

Too many on here quick to criticize us for anything and not quick enough to compliment us when we do some things well. That's the point I'm trying to make.

If you are using Collingwood as the benchmark team, to beat from a few points behind, then here's a question for you. Which team came back from 20 odd points down with 10 minutes left to beat Collingwood this year?

The OP is making a valid point, whereby st kilda have lacked passion and playing as a team which even ross lyon has read the riot act about.
If you are blind to the problems and won't address them then saints are not going anywhere. To me a forum is a whingeboard and not a sycophantic worshipping of mediocrity. Give praise when it's due not devaluing it by obediantely dishing it out regardless of how well the saints performed.
i've been to a few north games with their supporters and whether they win lose or draw their games have been much more entertaining than saints this year, in part due to their never say die attitude.

A perfect example of the point I was trying to make.

Just watch, when we beat WB today the number of threads/posters who post 'negative comments' about anythiing we do today.

Why?
Because it's better to have a 'whinge' than to praise.

For the record, I thought our effort in winning the game against Richmond (in all its circumstances) was worthy of praise.
I also thought that our effort against Collingwood, when we were arguably in a similar postion personnel wise to NM on Friday night, was equally as good.

You obviously don't.

[hilairehinshelwood]

Plugger, I would humbly suggest that given we went into the Collingwood game without our Captain (and CHF), our best tagger/small defender and X, that we would have been the underdog and expected to not win by most pundits.
Doesn't that put us in a similar position to where NM found themeselves prior to last night?
And your point about us getting smashed by Brisbane 1 game later?
I believe Collingwood's next game after us was against the same 'red hot Geelong' that NM showed so much 'shinboner spirit' against. Please remind me how that ended up?

Too many on here quick to criticize us for anything and not quick enough to compliment us when we do some things well. That's the point I'm trying to make.

If you are using Collingwood as the benchmark team, to beat from a few points behind, then here's a question for you. Which team came back from 20 odd points down with 10 minutes left to beat Collingwood this year?

The OP is making a valid point, whereby st kilda have lacked passion and playing as a team which even ross lyon has read the riot act about.
If you are blind to the problems and won't address them then saints are not going anywhere. To me a forum is a whingeboard and not a sycophantic worshipping of mediocrity. Give praise when it's due not devaluing it by obediantely dishing it out regardless of how well the saints performed.
i've been to a few north games with their supporters and whether they win lose or draw their games have been much more entertaining than saints this year, in part due to their never say die attitude.

A perfect example of the point I was trying to make.

Just watch, when we beat WB today the number of threads/posters who post 'negative comments' about anythiing we do today.

Why?
Because it's better to have a 'whinge' than to praise.

For the record, I thought our effort in winning the game against Richmond (in all its circumstances) was worthy of praise.
I also thought that our effort against Collingwood, when we were arguably in a similar postion personnel wise to NM on Friday night, was equally as good.

You obviously don't.

I wanted to be proved wrong, but realistically the saints are going backwards. Also i bet even the Dogs fans would say that game today was their most boring game of their season, and they won.
Saints games are so dull with the exception of the Richmond game.
Today was a big game for St kilda and again we saw a passionless display. Look at the passion carlton had tonight, i just dont know what that useless @#%^ lyon says to the team at quarter time, to get them to play so insipidly.

[Teflon]

...surely the "talent to challenge" MUST include players with the right mental attitude? the right professionalism and dedication to prepare themselves for a game at the highest level?

I think that's right but - and we are going over old ground again I s'pose - I think we are in for some lean years if we leave preperation and getting mentally right to 22 players each week.

I believe a large part of a coach's job is to identify and resolve poor attitude when required. It won't be the same players each week.

I loved Darryl Wakelin when he played for us. I don't think that anyone would question his attitude and preperation for the majority of his career for us or his subsequent successful career at Port. But, in the second half of 2000 he just stopped playing. He didn't give a rat's anymore. He was sick of our club and, I would think, the coach.

I reckon that if we think that on any given weekend we will have 22 self motivated/self managed stroll into TD we are fooling ourelves.

Please do go back to my earlier post where you grabebd this quote from and point out to me where I said motivation should be solely left to the players and the coach has no role?

You need to read whats there and not what you want to be there.

[Seaford_Saint]

I was hoping that come 9pm Sunday night I would have been left embarressed by my OP..... but sadly - today's performance only served to re-inforce the whole topic....

A display almost totally devoid of passion (apologies to all the rose-colored glass folk on this forum).

[my les foote]

How's that Shinboner spirit going?