The Lyon Game Plan

[JeffDunne]

I'm supposed to know which of the 1000's of GT threads you're talking about?

Jesus Christ man, post the the link to the thread you're talking about & I'll tell you if that's the thread. Is that really that hard?

Feel free to back up your ridiculous claim that he deliberately threw a match. In fact, I will happily never post again on this site if you can back up that claim.

Actually I'll go further than that.

If you can prove that GT admitted to "deliberately" losing a match, I'll not only happily walk away from this forum, I'll donate $1,000 to the football club.

Are you happy to offer the same if you can't?

[meher baba]

I have read this whole thread and it is not SrR who had their pants pulled down.

The more I read the ridicule and vitriol toward SrR by a number of posters the more it was obvious who had been owned.

Just my opinion of course, but it was very interesting the way the insult level rose as more of SrR's points struck home.

Nice work of SrR not to take the bait from the usual suspect who has a habit of resorting to personalising and smokescreens and deflection when cornered. Oh well nice to see he didn't resort to the usual shrill screams of scrotum et al.

Also interesting his calls for Lyons sacking has become somewhat mute since the admin has backed the caoch.

Carry on.

On the whole I'm with you on this JB.

I have more sympathy for the overall world view of the "usual suspect" (or isn't it "usual suspects") than I do for that of sRr, but I must say that I think I would rather spend the afternoon at the dentist than have to put up with much more of all this "you lied" "no I didn't" "yes you did, look at the thread posted back in 55 BC" "it's not a thread it's a string" "what's a string?" etc stuff!!

BTW, I think the calls for Lyons to be sacked went mute largely because we won reasonably well last weekend. I am desperately - albeit sceptically - hoping that tomorrow afternoon's game will give us grounds for the calls to sack Lyon to go away for quite a while.

Carn the Sainters!!

[JeffDunne]

I'd love to see someone highlight the posts where "SrR's points struck home".

I'd also love someone to explain how on earth delibetately losing a game is somehow different to throwing a game.

Now if you can do that, surely it wouldn't be too difficult to show some evidence that our previous coach deliberately lost a game? Christ, prove that and I'll help nail him to a cross.

JB, I'd love you to take up the challenge I put up to sRr and 'own' me.

You'll shut me up for good and the club will benefit from it.

Maybe for once you'll have the balls to actually back up what you post.

[meher baba]

I'd love to see someone highlight the posts where "SrR's points struck home".

I'd also love someone to explain how on earth delibetately losing a game is somehow different to throwing a game.

Now if you can do that, surely it wouldn't be too difficult to show some evidence that our previous coach deliberately lost a game? Christ, prove that and I'll help nail him to a cross.

JB, I'd love you to take up the challenge I put up to sRr and 'own' me.

You'll shut me up for good and the club will benefit from it.

Maybe for once you'll have the balls to actually back up what you post.

JD, I generally like your work, but surely it's time to let it go.

Shutting up you or sRr or anyone else on this forum "for good" isn't going to make any difference to the club or to most of the rest of the universe.

I think I can be described as a poster with more sympathy than most for how you and rodgerfox feel about the stuff that sRr posts on here about GT, the list, etc. in seemingly endless screeds of text.

But I have always seen what he posts as being opinion rather than fact. Sometimes he over eggs the cake a bit by dressing his opinion up as if it were a fact. And, like all of us, he can sometimes be a bit of a hypocrite when he attempts forensically to pull apart the claims made by others while he merrily pursues his own totally biased agenda.

But this is simply a forum on which desperadoes like you, me, sRr, JB and even the B4Es and Teffers of this world can freely express our views on the Sainters: no matter how stupid, biased, ill-informed or even untruthful they might be.

I really think that this thread has outlived its welcome and that one of the mods should put it out of its misery.

[JeffDunne]

Actually MB I'm not sure if it is time to let it go.

There's hardly a topic about St Kilda discussed on this board that isn't derailed by the pathological haters of our previous coach with what you describe as opinion dressed up as fact. sRr is one of the main offenders.

I sort of agree with you in the broader sense and I try to be selective when I get involved in threads like this (believe it or not), but I do think the ability to debate anything associated with St Kilda is near on impossible here when a large percentage of the threads are turned into a 'lets bag GT' thread.

My offer to sRr is an attempt to rid the board of one of the worst offenders or at the very least shut him up on the subject. You're probably right though and I should realise that I'm wasting my time but I'm an eternal optimist (aren’t we all?).

[meher baba]

Actually MB I'm not sure if it is time to let it go.

There's hardly a topic about St Kilda discussed on this board that isn't derailed by the pathological haters of our previous coach with what you describe as opinion dressed up as fact. sRr is one of the main offenders.

I sort of agree with you in the broader sense and I try to be selective when I get involved in threads like this, but I do think the ability to debate anything associated with St Kilda is near on impossible here when a large percentage of the threads are turned into a 'lets bag GT' thread.

My offer to sRr is an attempt to rid the board of one of the worst offenders or at the very least shut him up on the subject. You're probably right though and I should realise that I'm wasting my time but I'm an eternal optimist (aren’t we all?).

That's the spirit.

Now toddle off down to your local Saturday markets and shout yourself a nice cup of herbal tea and some homemade banana cake, and then shop around for a nice new tie-dyed shoulder bag and a few handcrafted wooden toys for the kiddies. You know it will make you feel so much better!!

[JeffDunne]

If you want to see me get really nasty then take me to Saturday morning market!

I've been up since 4am getting kids ready for a basketball camp and answering calls from clients so the herbal tea is probably a good idea right about now.

[joffaboy]

JB, I'd love you to take up the challenge I put up to sRr and 'own' me.

You'll shut me up for good and the club will benefit from it.

Maybe for once you'll have the balls to actually back up what you post.

lol - the "balls" on an internet forum

After reading the thread and seeing the vitriol increase toward SrR my opinion was that he was not the one struggling.

Now you can disagree with that opinion, you can state my opinion is worthless, you can say I know SFA about anything (which may well be true about most things), and i will say fair enough, but to think you would ever shut me up on an opeopen internet forum is laughable.

JD this is an internet chat room, you dont have god like powers what you wrote in a fit of pique just because I had the temerity to point out the modis operandi of some on this thread and the admirable way SrR handled it really says more about you than anything.

You might not like others opinions, but as the old saying goes just like arseholes we all have them.

I suppose you can start owning me now if it make you feel any better

[joffaboy]

But this is simply a forum on which desperadoes like you, me, sRr, JB and even the B4Es and Teffers of this world can freely express our views on the Sainters: no matter how stupid, biased, ill-informed or even untruthful they might be.

Nicely put mb. I enjoy many of RodgerFox's threads. I enjoy many of your posts, same with JeffDunne and also Teflons. B4E is a looney but a benevolent one and is someone I see regularily at the footy (poor me).

I have had heated discussions with all of them at some time. I will not agree with them on occasions and sometimes their way of posting is annoying and counterproductive (I am sure the same can be levelled at me).

I have no need to try and "own" somebody for todays truth will be tomorrows sin (wow I'm going all Zen on your arses). I obviously got someone nose out of joint in having the temerity to post on this thread, so I will leave it to the protagonists.

Obviously I dont have the stomach for such "frank and robust" discussions

[JeffDunne]

TBH, I can't believe you'd have the temerity to call anyone a protagonist let alone lecture on forum etiquette.

And please, spare me the sanctimonious claptrap about “owningâ€

[barks4eva]

B4E is a looney

I am a visionary, my posts are like pearls and you are all swine, blessed to have read them!

[barks4eva]

JD, c'mon, you've been totally owned by sRs, time to move on

[saintsRrising]

Actually I'll go further than that.

If you can prove that GT admitted to "deliberately" losing a match, I'll not only happily walk away from this forum, I'll donate $1,000 to the football club.

Are you happy to offer the same if you can't?

Well as I posted in the original thread.....GT spoke in the post match interview....

I know of no way of accessing these.....however you said:

Even when I posted his actual quotes you still kept pushing the line.
.

So it would be really good if you could post these quotes please as I have yet to see them in writing. You have stated that you have posted them. So you obviously have access to them, know the original source and so can re-post them.

It would be most helpful and might resolve a few things.

Again as I said it that original thread I heard GT say something along the lines that he could have flooded and won the game, but chose not to as teams do not win finals that way. This to me means that he also chose to lose. maybe his "long term" approach was the way to go.....me I would have flooded and taken the 4 points for a win. Some may argue as they did in the original string that my interepretation of what he said was harsh or stretcjing things. But to me an inaction is still an action.


Still maybe I heard that interview wrong? You have the quotes so please post them. I am more than happy to admit I am wrong if you have the quotes that demonstrate I am.

Thank you.

[saintsRrising]

I'm supposed to know which of the 1000's of GT threads you're talking about?

Jesus Christ man, post the the link to the thread you're talking about & I'll tell you if that's the thread. Is that really that hard? .

??? Odd you seemed very sure which one it was yesterday....or at least you said you were..no need to tell me whether or not if it is the correct thread JD. For it can only be one thread.....for it is the thread where I said:
.....Remember GT is the only AFL coach that I have ever heard who admitted that he deliberately lost a H&A game. More astounding was that he thought that it was a good thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And even though you are furiously trying to back peddle, and deflect off into other areas...lets get back to your claim.

Jesus . . . you do take this seriously don't you?
If you want an example outside of the crap in this thread, then look no further than your claim that GT threw a game.

Even when I posted his actual quotes you still kept pushing the line.
.

So can you please point out these GT quotes in the thread that you mentioned? The ones that you said you posted.

The thread since you cannot seem to find it now, is at:

http://www.saintsational.com/forum/view ... e&start=50

Now this is also what you said....

You fabricate and then when it's proven you don't admit you were wrong..

So can you please point out these GT quotes in the thread that you mentioned?


You also mentioned irony earlier in this thread.

Perhaps can you see some irony now? I can

[JeffDunne]

Christ you're a classic.

Firstly, just because I couldn't remember the URL of the thread doesn't mean I couldn't remember the thread. FFS, how many threads have there been like this? I couldn't remember the name of the thread so how in god's name was I supposed to find it? (or care)

Mark down one to you - s*** got me there. Clearly my obsession of all things GT doesn’t quite stack up to yours.

Anyhow, as for the quote, it was only one word - "COULD"

You altered the quote originally to "WOULD" as in "would have won".

Big difference to "could have won".

This blatant piece of fabrication was change after the event because you were called out on it (see where spinner quotes your post for evidence).

Seriously, even your cheerleaders in this thread didn't back you up on the b/s you were posting then. I notice they're not prepared to do it now either but will as usual stick their head in to do nothing but sh**-stir

Keep digging mate, you're doing well. I bet Teffers will be along any time now to throw his support behind you (even though I suspect even he’s not stupid enough to take that quote as intentionally throwing . . . sorry I mean deliberately losing . . a game.

It's a pity though you’re too spineless to take up my challenge.

You might actually set yourself apart from the psychopath pack.

[rodgerfox]

Again as I said it that original thread I heard GT say something along the lines that he could have flooded and won the game, but chose not to as teams do not win finals that way. This to me means that he also chose to lose. maybe his "long term" approach was the way to go.....me I would have flooded and taken the 4 points for a win. Some may argue as they did in the original string that my interepretation of what he said was harsh or stretcjing things. But to me an inaction is still an action.

No, you liar.

You said that GT is the only coach to have ever publicly admitted to purposely losing a match.

He never said that.

You lied outright. And not for the first time to attempt to win a 'debate'.

[saintsRrising]

It's a pity though you’re too spineless to take up my challenge.

.

You mean your attempt to change the subject? Why should I accept your attempts at distractions?

Face it JD.....you have been found guilty of exactly what you were claiming I did. Only difference is that I have called your bluff an exposed you for what you are.

You have "fabricated", since you seem to like that term, that you posted actual quotes from GT in that thread. You clearly did not.


You make a HUGE song and dance that posters should admit when they are wrong.....and then go on about what is a genuine mistake and what is not.

You have posted something which clearly never happended.....and now do not have the good grace to actually do what you demand of others.

[JeffDunne]

You're the one arguing semantics not me.

FACT: You claim GT deliberately lost a match

FACT: You altered a quote from him to suit your argument

FACT: You are unable to substantiate your claim

FACT: You still pass that claim off as fact

FACT: You are unable to back up that claim


I didn't post the article that you posted but I did find it at the time and quickly realised you had fabricated it.

I apologise for not being anal enough to remember the url, the thread title and the contents of every post in that thread. If it makes you happy "I was incorrect with my statement that I posted the actual quote".

Doesn't change my position or my view of you or your claim one iota.

Now do you want to :

1) take up my challange

or

2) admit you lied


My guess is you'll do neither and attempt another debate on semantics.

[saintsRrising]

Again as I said it that original thread I heard GT say something along the lines that he could have flooded and won the game, but chose not to as teams do not win finals that way. This to me means that he also chose to lose. maybe his "long term" approach was the way to go.....me I would have flooded and taken the 4 points for a win. Some may argue as they did in the original string that my interepretation of what he said was harsh or stretcjing things. But to me an inaction is still an action.

No, you liar.

You said that GT is the only coach to have ever publicly admitted to purposely losing a match.

He never said that.

You lied outright. And not for the first time to attempt to win a 'debate'.

Rodge I am still waiting for you to prove your lie about me having posted 35,000 times ???

Or is your 35,000 posts just meant to be an exageration????? Is that permissable.....or is it lying?? Please explain? Is it only Rodgerfox that is allowed to exagerate on Saintastional...with anyone else being labled a liar?

Now since you and JD seem to have trouble reading...

What I said was:

.....Remember GT is the only AFL coach that I have ever heard who admitted that he deliberately lost a H&A game. More astounding was that he thought that it was a good thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Was I taking a harsh interpretation of his comments that we could have won but he chose not to flood? Particualry when he re-affirmed taht it was still right not to flood after he had had post game reflection. Well perhaps....but that is what opinions are.

interesting too that post bonnie Doon he started flooding..and so if that game had been played then we would have won.


You see Rodge. You and JD make a good pair...as both of you want posters to post to a different set of rules than apply to yourselves.

[saintsRrising]

I didn't post the article that you posted but I did find it at the time and quickly realised you had fabricated it.

.

Fabricating again I see.

I did not post any article.

I heard a post game interview.

[saintsRrising]

JD on one day...

Even when I posted his actual quotes you still kept pushing the line.



.

JD the next day..after I have proved that his referred to quotes were not actually there...

You're the one arguing semantics not me.


I didn't post the article that you posted but I did find it at the time and quickly realised you had fabricated it.

2) admit you lied


.

Semantics????
Fabrication???
Lying????

I think it is pretty clear JD who is fabricating and lying and it is not I.

I by the way did not post from any article. This was discussed in the other thread.

I posted from what I remember having heard froa post match interview.

[JeffDunne]

Ok.

Forget the thread/quotes etc.

I'm happy to admit my recolection of what I posted in that thread was wrong. Happy for you to think I'm lying about what I read because I can't find the article but I do remember reading a quote at the time and I did remember you changing the word "would" to "could".

Bend me over and give me one of your best size 10's

Now can we put the semantics behind us and get back to the "deliberately losing" quote?

Are you going to put up anything that remotely backs your absurd claim?

[saintsRrising]

I have explained what I meant by what I said with respect to the post match comments ...both in the other thread and here.

To that end there is not much more I can do. I see no reason to change my view that we unecessarily lost 4 points.....and you obviously see no reason to change yours.

That your opinion and conclusion of what GT's comments meant or implied is different to mine is fair enough. I have no issues with people having different opinions, views or conclusions.

Indeed I actually enjoy discussing opinions.

A forum is a great place to read contrasting opinions.

[saintsRrising]

FACT: You altered a quote

.

FACT yes I did did do an edit...in fact I actually did two..

Posted: Thu 13 Mar 2008 11:24am

Last edited by saintsRrising on Thu 13 Mar 2008 11:30am; edited 2 times in total

these two times are both date stamped on that post.

You will note that I wrote the post..and then within 6 minutes had made two edits. I often edit posts just after I write them. I make a post....post it..and then if I spot a typo or a phrasing that I am not happy with I change it till I am. this process is called editing.

This was the case here.

You will note that Spinners post was:
Posted: Thu 13 Mar 2008 11:27am

Which was obviously made as I was writing my two edits.....so JD hardly a cover up by me.

from him to suit your argument


.

No 100% incorrect... I edited my post basically immediately after I re-read it to a stage that I was happy with it....and as shown by the date stamps all within 6 minutes.

[JeffDunne]

To that end there is not much more I can do. I see no reason to change my view that we unecessarily lost 4 points.....and you obviously see no reason to change yours.

And again we are back to where we started with this talk of throwing games.

Yes, "deliberately losing" is throwing games. In fact it's a perfect description of the term.

Unecessarily losing 4 points isn't deliberately losing.

It isn't even in the same ball park.

There isn't a game we lose where I don't second guess the coach. That's what supporters do when their team loses (rightly or wrongly). It doesn't matter who is coaching us I always look for the 'what can we do'.

But you're not suggesting that. You're going way beyond claiming you heard GT admit a coaching blunder (which he did often).

You are claiming he intentionally lost to prove a point.

You are claiming he made this comment publicly.

You have gone beyond a 'what we we should of done' moment to claim he said 'we would have won but I chose to lose'

Now you're trying to pass it off as "unecessarily losing 4 points"


As I said at the start of this post, we're back to where we started. I said you were unable to admit when you are wrong and will fabricate rather than admit you are wrong. I used the "deliberately losing" as an example because I remembered you changing what GT supposedly said.

(now before you start going all anal on me again, I'm paraphrasing, I can't be bothered going back through the thread).

It might be your opinion he threw a game but it's not fact.

You may think you remember what he said but that doesn't make it fact.

You may also have an opinion on GT's daily schedule but it doesn't make it fact.

You may, and you probably do, have an opinion that everything wrong with the club is GT's fault but it doesn't make it fact.


So why in God's name do we need every bloody thread on the club's & Lyon's performance derailed with your obviously biased opinion especially when you're not prepared to back it with FACTS!!