The Lyon Game Plan

[saintsRrising]

Why do you ask?

Well you have stated that I have little understanding about the roles of people within football departments.

So I am curious as to what your knowledge is based upon?

Mine is limited directly to having helped out behind the scenes at one AFL club.

...and indirectly through having one Brother in law that played for The Swans (albiet did not crack it for a senior game) and another brother in law who played professional football (soccer) for many years including 70 odd tests for Australia.

I am also a partner in a football business with a number of ex-soccer and AFL players.


So while I may have "little" knowledge of what goes on in football departments, I think I would know a bit more than many.....

[JeffDunne]

Well you have stated that I have little understanding about the roles of people within football departments.

No I didn't.

I said you give me the impression you know little about something you profess to know alot about.

I wasn't stating anything as fact simply my impression.

FWIW, I still think that.

[saintsRrising]

Did you hear Clarkson on SEN this morning sRr?

You still have not explained the relevance of this question.

I still have not heard the radio interview...but I did note on the news last night that the Hawks had someone called a Media Officer (was moving Clarko's illegally parked car)..and that the Media Officer and not Clarkson semed to be the one arranging the Media Interviews etc.

[saintsRrising]

Well you have stated that I have little understanding about the roles of people within football departments.

No I didn't.

I said you give me the impression you know little about something you profess to know alot about.

I wasn't stating anything as fact simply my impression.

FWIW, I still think that.

I have been kind enough to answer your questions....

As you want to judge me and have raised not my comments to discuss but rather my, in your opinion, lack of knowledge, is it not fair that I know what your knowledge of Football Departments at the highest level is???

I have raised this because you raised it as an issue.

[JeffDunne]

I raised what as an issue?

[saintsRrising]

Well you have stated that I have little understanding about the roles of people within football departments.

No I didn't.

I said you give me the impression you know little about something you profess to know alot about.

I wasn't stating anything as fact simply my impression.

FWIW, I still think that.

????

Odd I see no sign of the word impression in your actual post???

To suggest a coach doesn't oversee or at least have an input into which players can talk to and to who, indicates to me how little you understand about the roles of people within the football dept.

.

Now 1/ as I stated BEFORE your post a coach should have input.

2/ however it is simply ridiculous that a Head Coach handle media requests for players.


Despite you thinking that I am just against the idea of it just because GT did it is completely wrong.

I am against it because it is simply a ridiculous idea that Head Coach waste his time in this regard...despite how good he may or may not be at it.

Lets look at it logically.

*last time I saw the figures there were more AFL accredited journalists than there are AFL players.
*at any time any of these might wish to seek to talk to any St Kilda player, coach..or even trainer as we saw recently with Kenny Whiffen.
*such demands can come all at once...due an incident or major milestone...or an important game
*do you really really think it is good idea that in the lead up to an AFL match that the Head Coach is spending his time filtering possibly hundreds of media requests and briefing the individual on what may or may not be saidetc, rather than concentrate on his players, match ups, assistants etc????

[JeffDunne]

Well f*** me!

Didn't you catch me out?


Seriously, impression/indicates . . . who gives a toss?

TBH, your pathetic attempts at self-justification tell me more about your knowledge than the tripe you claim as fact.

GT handled all media requests did he? Really? You know this for a fact?

Seriously mate, get over it. It's embarrassing.

[saintsRrising]

GT handled all media requests did he? Really? You know this for a fact?
Seriously mate, get over it. It's embarrassing.

As I posted above in this string (an extract froma published article in the Hearld Sun)Mike Sheehan stated that GT supervised media requests for the players.

We even know from the same article that he was involved in the minitia of answering back Mike's initial call to see what he wanted. Hardly the work for a Head Coach.

((By the way any club has Media requests well beyond the playing group and I have no knowledge who at the saints used to do this..)))

So who do I believe?

** Mike Sheahan...who is a long serving professional football journalist whose day to day job would have him on a daily basis contacting AFL Clubs with media requests.

ie he should know who the person handling media equiries for the St Kilda players of that time was.

So was Mike lying on thhis, or sadly misinformed....even though it should be core part of his job to know who he is dealing with?????.



OR

** JD...whose football knowledge and sources on this topic are unkown?



On the balance of probability I think that I might go with Mike until JD offers up something besides a personal opinion that it was not so.


Point remains that is a valuable waste of a Head Coaches time to be managing media requests for players.

[JeffDunne]

If Mike knew GT was handling media requests then why did he call Robert Harvey directly?

C'mon sRr, you trying to seriously tell me you take Mike's word as gospel?

[rodgerfox]

Point remains that is a valuable waste of a Head Coaches time to be managing media requests for players.

How do you think GT came to know about Sheahan calling Robert Harvey?

[saintsRrising]

If Mike knew GT was handling media requests then why did he call Robert Harvey directly?

C'mon sRr, you trying to seriously tell me you take Mike's word as gospel?

Gospel?? No.

Mike by the way in that article did not say it was a Media request (though I would presume it was)....so I don't know what the call was about..so I cannot help you there...

Maybe Mike was trying to be sneaky...maybe he wanted to invite Harvey to a party...I don't know....maybe GT had changed how Media requests were to be handled

He said that he had rung Harvey who he had known for 17 years...left a message and within 10 minutes had GT answer him back wanting to know what he wanted...

[rodgerfox]

He said that he had rung Harvey who he had known for 17 years...left a message and within 10 minutes had GT answer him back wanting to know what he wanted...

So you now admit you lied?

[saintsRrising]

Point remains that is a valuable waste of a Head Coaches time to be managing media requests for players.

How do you think GT came to know about Sheahan calling Robert Harvey?

Well one assumption (and there would be various scenarios) would be that with GT supervising Media Requests to players that GT had given instructions to the playing group to direct media enquiries to him.

Again don't you think that this is great waste of a head coaches time?

Don't you think it is waste of a head coaches time to actually be answering back Journos initially to screen what they want? Why not leave such day to day dross to someone on a lot less than $500,000 per year.

[JeffDunne]

Again don't you think that this is great waste of a head coaches time?

See, this is where you are completely missing the point.

GT will be judged on his record not on his daily schedule. It's only people with a pathological hatred that gives a toss about such matters this long after the event.

Now you might think he'd have done a better job if he didn't take an interest in player welfare, but it doesn't make it fact. I don’t care how many people you know or whom you’ve spoken too, it’s purely speculation and nothing more.

I judge GT on his record and what he brought to the club. If he was handling all media requests for the club then I reckon he did a pretty good job of that too. I guess you probably think he was wasting his time when the whole M&M incident flared up, the Gehrig incidents, etc, but I think the club handled all brilliantly. GT included.

Now if you can cough up a copy of an AFL media guide that listed GT as the principle media contact for the club then I’ll concede that was his role but it doesn’t mean he’d have been a better coach had he not taken on the role.

The bottom line for me is that he was protective of his players.

All good coaches are.

[rodgerfox]

Well one assumption (and there would be various scenarios) would be that with GT supervising Media Requests to players that GT had given instructions to the playing group to direct media enquiries to him.

So you have no idea. You have absolutely no idea, how GT was informed, and why he was informed, presumably by Robert Harvey himself, that Mike Sheahan had left him a VM?

If you have no idea about this, why the 35000 posts about it? Is it just to deflect from being caught out lying again?

Again don't you think that this is great waste of a head coaches time?

Don't you think it is waste of a head coaches time to actually be answering back Journos initially to screen what they want? Why not leave such day to day dross to someone on a lot less than $500,000 per year.

As per above.

What were the circumstances? Why did Harves tell GT within minutes (according to Sheahan) that a journo had left him a VM?

What was happening at our club at this time?

Why did Sheahan not use Georgie Fidge?


You have no idea. So how you can possibly attempt to pot GT for this (simply because he has made you look stupid since he left) is just laughable. And pathetic.

[saintsRrising]

He said that he had rung Harvey who he had known for 17 years...left a message and within 10 minutes had GT answer him back wanting to know what he wanted...

So you now admit you lied?

You are sad sad case Rodge.


""Media liason for players and coaches arranging who speaks when....I remember once Mike Sheehan stating that he rang up Bangers mobile once..and had GT answering it. I mean is that what you want your head coach doing!!!! ""

Has the thought ever ever occuured to you that Mike may have said something in a slightly different way than he wrote ????

Or are you now claiming to have an exact recall of every word that Mike has ever said on 3AW, On The Couch etc etc..????????

Following your “claimsâ€

[JeffDunne]

Malthouse writes newspaper columns.

Lethal does too.

Sheedy did when he was coach in between promoting the game nationally.

Paul Roos even writes them too.

All are premiership coaches. All are considered great coaches.

How on earth do they find the time? Bloody time wasters.

Seriously, could you be anymore obsessed in your never ending quest to tarnish our previous coach?

[saintsRrising]

You have no idea. So how you can possibly attempt to pot GT for this .

What Sheahan was talking about at the time was what a control freak GT was and Sheahan used this as one example.

He was also speaking on the subject that GT was doing a lot of tasks that a head coach should not be doing. Again this was an example of it.

Maybe Sheehan was lieing through his teeth...but I doubt it.

(simply because he has made you look stupid since he left) is just laughable. And pathetic.

LOL...

I fail to see how having happen what I predicted in terms of our list come to pass makes me look stupid...I wrote BEFORE GT left of the damage that he was doing our list.....on how badly he was mis-managing it.

The only difference is now that what I was highlighting back then....is now recognised by most except a few GT diehards like yourself.


You were the one with your head the sand saying that it was only injuries holding us back and completely oblivious to the situation that GT was not developng young talent... nor recruiting and trading wisely.


The gross underperfomance of GT in these areas is now obvious to nearly all..except a few like yourself.



While GT was fiddling with media enquiries, and player contacts ....Rome was burning as he was not foccussing on matters of real importance....the playing list, and in developing talent.

[saintsRrising]

Malthouse writes newspaper columns.

Lethal does too.

Sheedy did when he was coach in between promoting the game nationally.

Paul Roos even writes them too.

All are premiership coaches. All are considered great coaches.

How on earth do they find the time? Bloody time wasters.

Seriously, could you be anymore obsessed in your never ending quest to tarnish our previous coach?

And which ones from that list were paid by their clubs to write the articles????

Coaches and players for a long long time have picked up extra money from writing, speaking engagements, sportsmen' night etc in their own time....not to mention manage their affairs and business portfolios....



They were also doing pretty good at their day jobs.



What we were talking about with GT was where he chose to spend his paid St Kilda time.

I heard him speak on radio once for example on how he did not have the time to spend on the coaching development of rookies and that he chose to spend his resources in other areas.....


Now you may think think that managing media and player contracts (and remember the Club wanted to hire Drain to do this...) was great use of GT's time. I personally would have preferred that he focus on coaching issues such as players development and in improving his list.

[spert]

For gawds sake, can we say goodbye to Grant Thomas on this forum -talk about squeezing blood from a stone. Everything that can possibly be said about Thomas and his place in our history has been said, and it's a mighty boring subject that takes up a lot of cyber space at the moment.
Let's talk about Alves, Sheldon, Timmy, Blight etc etc for a change -it might brighten things up a bit.

[Saints43]

Imagine there had been an incident at a night club the previous night involving St Kilda players. GT told all players "If you are contacted directly by a journalist today I will deal with it. We're keeping this in-house"

It could have happened for any number of reasons and may have happened only once.

It might have been a very good use of the head coaches time. It might have been five minutes work to save days of media frenzy.

If GT was such a control freak surely Mike could have written 'every time I call a St Kilda player GT rings me back'.

[JeffDunne]

And which ones from that list were paid by their clubs to write the articles????

Matthews & Roos. Don't know about the others.

Now you may think think that managing media and player contracts (and remember the Club wanted to hire Drain to do this...) was great use of GT's time. I personally would have preferred that he focus on coaching issues such as players development and in improving his list.

I'd personally have prefered he was writing newspaper articles

[yipper]

For gawds sake, can we say goodbye to Grant Thomas on this forum -talk about squeezing blood from a stone. Everything that can possibly be said about Thomas and his place in our history has been said, and it's a mighty boring subject that takes up a lot of cyber space at the moment.
Let's talk about Alves, Sheldon, Timmy, Blight etc etc for a change -it might brighten things up a bit.

How long's a piece of string?? This could be one of those posts that goes and goes and just goes!!!

[meher baba]

For gawds sake, can we say goodbye to Grant Thomas on this forum -talk about squeezing blood from a stone. Everything that can possibly be said about Thomas and his place in our history has been said, and it's a mighty boring subject that takes up a lot of cyber space at the moment.
Let's talk about Alves, Sheldon, Timmy, Blight etc etc for a change -it might brighten things up a bit.

How long's a piece of string?? This could be one of those posts that goes and goes and just goes!!!

I for one would be happy never to see GT mentioned again on this forum. We could then all focus on the current situation that the team finds itself in.

However, there are 3 or 4 posters - of whom sRr is one - who inevitably ascribe anything that goes wrong from week to week with our current on-field performance to the "problems with the list" that are allegedly all the fault of GT.

Likewise, they interpret any criticism that I or anyone else wishes to make of the performance of Lyon and his assistants as being all about our supposed "agenda" in relation to GT.

For as long as they keep doing this, then I and others will respond to them.

Because there is nothing basically wrong with the list that Lyon has to work with: FFS, the majority of media pundits tipped us to make the GF this year!! I don't think they were basing this prediction on Lyon's coaching ability alone: I think they thought we had kind of a good squad.

And because nothing that has happened since September 2006 has given me or anyone else who doesn't have their head stuck firmly in the sand any reason at all to consider that the decision to sack GT and replace him with a totally unknown quantity in Lyon was anything other than a guaranteed recipe for us to go backwards.

These truths are self-evident to everyone in the entire AFL world except for Robert Walls, Patrick Smith, Archie Fraser, Rod Butterss, a few former board members at St Kilda and a few diehards on saintsational. And perhaps Demetriou, whose hatred and contempt for GT probably even exceeds that of the aforementioned posters on here.

I know it bores many people on here to tears, but I can't see any signs that it is going to stop until either (a) our performance lifts dramatically (although that would then raise the question of what was so wrong with the list anyway) or (b) Lyon is sacked.

It's interesting that, since Butterss was sacked, I can't recall seeing one post suggesting that he should be brought back. I suspect that something simliar will happen if (or, as I believe, when) Lyon is given the boot.

[saintsRrising]

, why the 35000 posts about it? Is it just to deflect from being caught out lying again?

.

Now Rodger....35000 posts? You would not be lying would you that I have written 35000 posts on this?

Because if you have to be word verbatim...then you are obviously lying....

Or is Rodgerfox allowed to post differently to everyone else? Once again you area hypocrite...something else I have exposed before.

I mean I know that you seek to bait and that this is your real intent.......but by the standards where you imply that other posters must be 100% accurate your own words indicate that you choose to lie..and do so freely in the knowledge that what you are posting is not correct.


I have never lied on this Forum Rodger...whereas I have demonstrated on a number of occassions that you have lied about what I have posted.