Walton,Beetham,X.Clarke,Brooks,R.Clarke,McQualter,Watts

[BigMart]

Have these guys hurt us......a collection of first round draft picks since our last GF appearance.....

# 17 - 1997.......B.Walton........Delisted
# 9 - 1999........C.Beetham.....Delisted
# 5 - 2001........X.Clarke.........Underperformed
# 6 - 2002........B.Brooks*.........Delisted
# 8 - 2003........R.Clarke..........Underperformed
# 17 - 2004......A.McQualter.....Delisted (Rookie listing)
# 17 - 2005......F.Watts*..........Delisted


That is 7 FIRST round draft picks, who have not made the impact at AFL level they could/should have.....

Our second round picks have been a bit more rewarding

Baker, Blake, Maguire, Ferguson, J.Gram*, C.Ackland*, S.Gilbert in that same period

[brown-coat]

Beetham - Couldn't kick, useless at AFL level. A Daffy kind of player, would blindly bang it nowhere.

X.Clarke - Body made of balsa wood. Frail as a kitten, too injury prone. Useless.

Brooks - Self explanatory, useless

R.Clarke - Epic useless delist asap.

Mcqualter - Slow, dopey, bad awareness and can't kick. Extra useless

Walton - WTF

Watts - No comment, useless.

HAve they hurt us? Because it's a big collection of nothingness, yes it probably has.

[evertonfc]

X Clarke is a gun; just get him out there...

[BigMart]

No Everton....X is not a GUN!

13 possesions a game over a seven year period is not good enough....to be called a GUN!

J.Bartel (3 picks later in that draft) is a GUN!

[matrix]

hindsights wonderful huh

[evertonfc]

No Everton....X is not a GUN!

13 possesions a game over a seven year period is not good enough....to be called a GUN!

J.Bartel (3 picks later in that draft) is a GUN!

Gun? Overstatement, true...but he has a lot more than the OP has to offer.

[st.byron]

No Everton....X is not a GUN!

13 possesions a game over a seven year period is not good enough....to be called a GUN!

J.Bartel (3 picks later in that draft) is a GUN!

Gun? Overstatement, true...but he has a lot more than the OP has to offer.

yep agree with that Everton. Not a gun, could be a gun, but not at this stage.

[ace]

When I was a child (many centuries ago) I had a GUN.

It had a cork in the end of it.

When you fired the gun the cork came out making a "pop" sound.

The cork was retained with a string.

It was called a "pop gun".

Too many of St Kilda's "guns" are merely pop guns.

They are popular but not very effective.

[bergsone]

Dont reckon X is a GUN player but could be a very good player for us .Do like the balsa wood comparison though.Interesting to see where we all rate him after a long inj free run

[Otiman]

Or perhaps a spud gun.

[spert]

X has never been able to consistantly contribute due to injuries, and although shown some good form here and there, maybe needs to string lots of consecutive games together, otherwise he may be in strife. R has not come on as expected.
A question mark over recruiting over the last 5-8 years

[killa_gram]

Watts kicked 10 on the weekend for Collegians in the VAFA. He has been kicking a few bags this year for them.

[The Peanut]

I wouldn't put Xavier in the same catagory as some of the others mentioned in the OP

X Clarke 2008 – 7 games (pro-stats)

Disposals 99 – 14.1 per game
Marks 30 – 4.3 per game
Tackles 32 – 4.6 per game
Goals 5 – 0.7 per game
1%’s 32 – 4.6 per game

1%'ers and Tackles are always worth a possession for mine
My overall tally is equal to 23 possessions.

... and he has a crack, albeit a fragile body - but to say he is rubbish

As with many other underperforming players he also is underperforming but I can't see why he is singled out

[Dan Warna]

Have these guys hurt us......a collection of first round draft picks since our last GF appearance.....

# 17 - 1997.......B.Walton........Delisted
# 9 - 1999........C.Beetham.....Delisted
# 5 - 2001........X.Clarke.........Underperformed
# 6 - 2002........B.Brooks*.........Delisted
# 8 - 2003........R.Clarke..........Underperformed
# 17 - 2004......A.McQualter.....Delisted (Rookie listing)
# 17 - 2005......F.Watts*..........Delisted


That is 7 FIRST round draft picks, who have not made the impact at AFL level they could/should have.....

Our second round picks have been a bit more rewarding

Baker, Blake, Maguire, Ferguson, J.Gram*, C.Ackland*, S.Gilbert in that same period

-walton, I can't remember much about him
-Beetham, had all the mechanics of a very good player by all acounts attitude was way way off. the story doing the rounds at the time was when he was approached told the st kilda delegation, he would be gone by the time we got our pick Had a real kick it me attitude on teh field, wouldn't chase, can't remember seeing him tackle, and I think he got talked up a fair bit by timmy. talent to burn but bad attitude.
-x clarke fair call, injuries have played a big part in his career and the diff between his best and worst have been substantial.
-Brooks, searching for a ruckman
-R. Clarke, again injuries have played a big part
-Mini, an outstanding player as a junior, was expected to be a leader at the club.
-Watts, has a tonne of talent to burn, was an oustanding junior and expected to be a ruckman forward of prodigioius output, just didn't cross junior form to senior form.

[Saint Bev]

You have a point. Alot has been said over the years about "Bevo's" great recruiting, but personnally I'm not convinced. Obviously some have been great, but there have been some real beauties over the years that leave you scraching your head. Interesting to know the stats on success rate !

[Winmar7Fan]

How anyone can think Xavier is a dud and hasn't got talent is a joke. X is a good player but injuries have thrown his career out . Unfortunately his body is a bit frail and its cost him.

I actually liked Beetham and thought he was a talented player yes his disposal was a bit shabby but his biggest problem was his heart wasn't in it .

Also another player in that recent mix i though was going to be a better player than he turned out was Brett Moyle the rest i agree with.

All rubbish !!!!

[Dan Warna]

You have a point. Alot has been said over the years about "Bevo's" great recruiting, but personnally I'm not convinced. Obviously some have been great, but there have been some real beauties over the years that leave you scraching your head. Interesting to know the stats on success rate !

that as maybe bev but the reality is sometimes champion kids don't come on.

how many superstar juniors never get that second spurt of growth? or just don't muscle up, or just can't put on weight, or just have bad shin splints or something like that.

what if luke ball never got over his OP?

I remember a BF post on about 1/2 the round 1 picks never making it past 50 games, and less than 1/3 of the round 2 picks over the last few years.

Also some folks despite their work just don't develop along with their peers, or others through a lack of confidence or arrogance don't take the next step?

Tim Allen is my fave story, an absolute magoo's SUPERSTAR picked up by geelong and hawthorn in subsequent years, lemon in the seniors.

we all know caydn beethams stories by now.

glen coghlan was going to be a 10 year CHB for us after he thrashed anthony rocca and wayne carey.

Damen Shaw was one of your next get young guns in the mid 90s.

[saintsRrising]

You have a point. Alot has been said over the years about "Bevo's" great recruiting, but personnally I'm not convinced. Obviously some have been great, but there have been some real beauties over the years that leave you scraching your head. Interesting to know the stats on success rate !

"All that gliiters is not gold"

You also need to look below the surface at what lies beneath.

Bevo is an ok enough judge of "football" talent...but he is/was a one dimensional recruiter that did not take in account factors such as "attitude", "work ethic", "outside influences" etc etc...


You then take this pool of players and inject them into a club where our development program consisted of "Sink or Swim" and the result is way too many that did not make it, or left the club for "Greener Pastures".

Development is not by the way just teaching guys how to play football....its getting them to play football at their best....it's improving what they have and working on their weaknesses.


Result is way to many lost their way.

Apart from the above....just cast your mind back....and think over the players we have recruited over the years...

Sweeney...known to have "issues" before he joined us..

Brooks..never wanted to work hard enough to be an AFL footballer

Guerra...flops at the Saints after an initial meteroric arrival, but goes on to be a consistent player at the Hawks. was known to haave "issues" and that this contributed to Pa letting him go.

Lappin...and Aussie....both loved the night life and what went with it to excess.. Lappin shown the door and Aussie had an up and down career.

Barry Hall...known to have "distractions" from where he hailed from....with the clubs solution being to ship him off to Sydney!!!

Steven Lawrence...again known to have "issues' at the Lions including not being harmonius with all his team mates .

Now in the rrecent past much was made of at the Saints about turning the "culture" around....and this was successful to a degree. But if you were too far off the norm you tended to be exited out rather than reformed.....and if you were in our reserves or were playing as a rookie then did not rate much personal attention or development.


Contrast this with now

Armo is taken as another football gun by Bevo. however agin like many of our previous early picks he has an "attitude flaw". Previously would have been left to "sink or Swim"...most likely to sink as another player who had talent but did not work hard enough.


After (and not BEFORE!!!) arriving at the club it was discovered that he had a few issues and has over a course of a year been developed into a much more professional player. Note though that rumour has it was dropped from the Lions game for a disciplinary reason indicating that Armo is still a work in progress (much better than the Sink or Swim Model).




Now all clubs will take a gamble on some "roughies"...ie take the Hawks with Buddy...or the Lions with Pike. But if you recruita flawed diamond you first of all need to know what the flaw is....and the be prepared to work on that flaw (realising of course that sometimes a reject will remain areject.


Now if the above sounds like doom ad and gloom...do not get too depressed because I think that the saints are at long long last lifting our game in this regard.

[cwrcyn]

You could go through most clubs and come up with similar failures

E.g

Geelong - Kane Tenace

Essendon - Kepler Bradley

Bulldogs - Farren Ray

Adelaide - Darrem Pfeiffer

There are plenty of others. Does anyone have a list of all draftees from 2000 to 2005? If so, it would be very interesting to get some comparisons with other first round failures at other clubs.

As far as Ben Walton is concerned, that was Stan Alves' call, overriding John Beverage's choice of Nick Stevens. OUCH!!!

[n1ck]

Ouch, indeed...

[Ralphy]

carlton, would be the houlihans

[Dan Warna]

luke livingstone
luke molan
luke penny

[brown-coat]

Geelong - Kane Tenace

Spriggs

Freo - Clive Waterhouse? Wasn't he a number 1 draft pick?

[Dan Warna]

Geelong - Kane Tenace

Spriggs

Freo - Clive Waterhouse? Wasn't he a number 1 draft pick?

Freo are morons

they don't count

you just assume they will make a stupid mistake and then you are pleasantly suprised when its not a FU but generally its good luck rather than good planning when that happens.

[BigMart]

You cannot look at a collection of first round picks, from a number of clubs.....rather one club over a number of years....

ie/Geelong was mentioned about recruiting Tenace (a dud) at #7 2003...

But they also have picked the following players in the first round...
J.Corey 1999, J.Bartel 2001, J.Kelly 2001, S.Johnson 2001, A.Mackie 2002, T.Varcoe 2004, J.Selwood 2006 and traded for B.Ottens 2005...

I could do the same analysis with a number of clubs.....only essendon and collingwood would have taken as many average players early in the draft.....

Considering a first round DP is now such an investment.....you would hope for at least a 150 game player...