How did Ross Lyon come to lose his way? (Discussion starter)

[JeffDunne]

No JB, I wouldn't say it's about perspectives.

More to do with volume and one's ability to cut & paste.

[joffaboy]

No JB, I wouldn't say it's about perspectives.

More to do with volume and one's ability to cut & paste.

Well True.

The cut and paste vendetta towards the previous coach was tiresome.

The current hysterical approach to our current prediciment by some is also tiresome.

Dont get me wrong, I have read some very good and worthwhile critisisms of the current coach that have been well thought out and AFAIAC objective.

I am not against critisising anyone especially in the very poor position our club is in. The coach is ultimately responsible and will pay with his job if things dont improve.

I am just really sick of the usual suspects who seem to disappear when we have a win but seem to delight in us having a loss and cant wait to sheet all the blame onto just one individual when it is patently obvious that it is just simplistic and poorly thought out to point fingers in only one direction.

But I suppose I should be used to it. The same happened when GT was coach. Some on here would dissappear for weeks when we were going well but resurface with a moron post (outcoached blah blah blah) on the night or afternoon of a loss.

it is the way of internet forums to attract sad sacks whose only purpose is to wallow in grief and pity.

[meher baba]

I am disappointed that most of the discussion on this thread was about me rather than about the points I raised.

Don't get me wrong, I am crazy about myself and would rather talk about me than almost anything else, but stil.....

Perhaps its just that I am too closely associated with a particular point of view. Which is something I have undoubtedly brought on myself.
Oh well.

Perhaps someone else could start a thread on where lyon might have gone wrong, because I would love to read such a discussion

A finak comment: thanks to the poster who described my grammar as being impeccable. All I can say to that is are you female? Are you single? If not, are you happily married? What's your star sign? Etc

[Winmar7Fan]

You've got some interesting points i especially agree with you about Jason Blake.

[Teflon]

Sorry...but replace :discussion starter" with "agenda pusher" IMHO

Meher, I'm afraid you are become the alternate universe version of barks4eva circa this time 2006. Its all very well written and your grammar is impeccible, but through it all is just your obsession with anyone else bar GT coaching our side now.

Of course you are entitled to your opinion, as was Barks..but please dont try and hide your agenda behind a wall of genuine discussion. Theres a dozen other threads on RL and his potential/actual/possible shortcomings.....could you not have just popped it in one of them???

Yep.

What a shame people cant put their petty biases aside rather than insist on judging Lyon 1/6 into his contract....

Admit it Babble - your only ever seen on here crowing after a loss and you judged Lyon as a 'dud' coach 10 games into his contract. F@rk me thats mature...

[meher baba]

What a shame people cant put their petty biases aside rather than insist on judging Lyon 1/6 into his contract

OK Teffers, ill drop my petty biases if you'll drop yours...

Wait a minute. Oh god! Are you suggesting that we are stuck with lyon for 6 years!! I take it all back!!! My petty biases rule!!

Its time to go, ross...

[Teflon]

What a shame people cant put their petty biases aside rather than insist on judging Lyon 1/6 into his contract

OK Teffers, ill drop my petty biases if you'll drop yours...

Wait a minute. Oh god! Are you suggesting that we are stuck with lyon for 6 years!! I take it all back!!! My petty biases rule!!

Its time to go, ross...

You mean 6 years like your previous hero with his "man manager" his "belief clouds", "process going forward" and "key KPI's" ????

or what about "training services" (your a HR guy babble...no wonder you love this management cr@p...its what HR is founded on....its called "building a profession for people who cant count"....

oh but hang.....we made finals.....we won 10 games in a row...we "grew as men" .......we MUSTVE been succesful.....werent we?

[Shaggy]

It was a good opp MB.

I would suggest that RL is also looking at where he got it wrong and doesn't need protection.

We all make big mistakes.

RL's real test is now (if he understands where he went wrong which means a complete change to how he went into the job).

[meher baba]

What a shame people cant put their petty biases aside rather than insist on judging Lyon 1/6 into his contract

OK Teffers, ill drop my petty biases if you'll drop yours...

Wait a minute. Oh god! Are you suggesting that we are stuck with lyon for 6 years!! I take it all back!!! My petty biases rule!!

Its time to go, ross...

You mean 6 years like your previous hero with his "man manager" his "belief clouds", "process going forward" and "key KPI's" ????

or what about "training services" (your a HR guy babble...no wonder you love this management cr@p...its what HR is founded on....its called "building a profession for people who cant count"....

oh but hang.....we made finals.....we won 10 games in a row...we "grew as men" .......we MUSTVE been succesful.....werent we?

Whoa Teffers, I'm no HR guy. I simply said on another post that I managed an HR area for a while. I have also been a school teacher, university lecturer, finance manager, IT person, government policy adviser, PR worker: in short, I've done a lot of different things in my time.

I didn't like the managerial jargon stuff that GT used to spout any more than you do. But at least he didn't bag his own players all the time, and at least he got some good results on the field.

If you are going to keep going on and on about GT, you should stop playing the man and have a look at his record. It really wasn't that bad, you know.

[desertsaint]

second best record in st kilda's history - how can anyone realistically bag him ?

[mischa]

second best record in st kilda's history - how can anyone realistically bag him ?

I know. It's tragic. Think they get their cue from the AFL mafia, from crap like Walls-it's easier!

[Buckets]

I was watching Dal Santo when he kicked that brilliant goal from the wing in the last quarter agains Brisbane...

He watched in amazement when it went through...it was hilarious to see the look on his face...

Yep Dal you actually can do it.

They dont believe in themselves..they dont take the chances...they have the skills..but hesitate.

Dont ask me why...but i dont believe its Lyon...i believe its them.

But what has made them hesitant when only a 20 months ago they did believe that they could do this? The only common factor from that understanding is Lyon isn't it?

[Otiman]

Leadership group and coaching panel need to have a sit down and have a heart to heart about the club. Be perfectly honest with each other about a few things.

1. Respect - both ways, who has it, and who doesn't.
2. Belief - Do players believe they can win. Do they believe in the 'gameplan'?
3. Effort/Skill (on field and in box) - Which players does the coaching panel think are lacking in areas, and which coaches do the players think are not up to it. (leads back to respect)

[Buckets]

Leadership group and coaching panel need to have a sit down and have a heart to heart about the club. Be perfectly honest with each other about a few things.

1. Respect - both ways, who has it, and who doesn't.
2. Belief - Do players believe they can win. Do they believe in the 'gameplan'?
3. Effort/Skill (on field and in box) - Which players does the coaching panel think are lacking in areas, and which coaches do the players think are not up to it. (leads back to respect)

Don't just have the Leadership group i think it has to be a whole team list discussion with the coaching group!

[Otiman]

Leadership group and coaching panel need to have a sit down and have a heart to heart about the club. Be perfectly honest with each other about a few things.

1. Respect - both ways, who has it, and who doesn't.
2. Belief - Do players believe they can win. Do they believe in the 'gameplan'?
3. Effort/Skill (on field and in box) - Which players does the coaching panel think are lacking in areas, and which coaches do the players think are not up to it. (leads back to respect)

Don't just have the Leadership group i think it has to be a whole team list discussion with the coaching group!

I think it would be a bit intimidating for some of the younger kids in the side. If need be, the leadership group can do the same within the playing group beforehand.

The leadership group needs to act as an intermediary where required between the players and coaches. Obviously someone like Jack Steven or Eljay Connors isn't going to go up to Lyon or Drain and speak his mind, and be assertive enough to make a difference.

Just like the factory hand, or toilet cleaner won't go straight to the CEO with any issues they may have.

[Behind Play]

Ross was doing fine up to the end of the NAB cup, then the board made a decision on our captain, a captain that was chosen because he is marketable, not because the players wanted him.
Lets see were his loyalty is in 2010

[joffaboy]

Ross was doing fine up to the end of the NAB cup, then the board made a decision on our captain, a captain that was chosen because he is marketable, not because the players wanted him.
Lets see were his loyalty is in 2010

Thought the previous coach gave us a plethora of leaders with rotating captaincy and we had numerous on field leaders. Wasn't the captaincy just tossing the coin at the beginning of the game?

Suddenly we have lost our way because Lenny has spat the dummy and so has Luke Ball because hey didn't get the captaincy and the players have followed them.

Add that to the fact that the players wont play for Ros Lton.

Sheesh who the F*** do these selfish little cabbages play for? Not the captain not the coach. Our group is a complee rabble according to the good souls at Saintsational

[Halo Halo]

Its so disappointing to hear all the negative excuses for the team 'over-achieving' under Gratnt Thomas..

Nobody rated him as a coach but he got us to be a cometitive side, a team that was feared & a team that played exciting footy..

For people to say he pandered to the players needs or moddycoddled is totally disrespecting the results he achieved..

If Grant Thomas couldn't coach none of us would have an issue with Ross Lyon.. Grant got us to be cometitive & I agree that Ross has lost his way..

Grant Thomas was fired after losing an elimation final, Ross took over & first year finished out of the finals & after a pathetic first half of the season finished the 07 season well enough to give us all hope that he could improve this season, but he hasn't. He has the team playing far worse than any of us would have & actually could have expected.

I would love for us to improve & finish in the eight but I cant see it happening, I dont think Ross Lyon is a good coach because he cannot get the most out of his players.. He has failed & I think we will be 'down' for some time cos we have to rebuild again now..

[Behind Play]

Ross was doing fine up to the end of the NAB cup, then the board made a decision on our captain, a captain that was chosen because he is marketable, not because the players wanted him.
Lets see were his loyalty is in 2010

Thought the previous coach gave us a plethora of leaders with rotating captaincy and we had numerous on field leaders. Wasn't the captaincy just tossing the coin at the beginning of the game?

Suddenly we have lost our way because Lenny has spat the dummy and so has Luke Ball because hey didn't get the captaincy and the players have followed them.

Add that to the fact that the players wont play for Ros Lton.

Sheesh who the F*** do these selfish little cabbages play for? Not the captain not the coach. Our group is a complee rabble according to the good souls at Saintsational

You have to be joking about Lenny and Ball, have a look at todays paper on stats for our player. If Lenny is not leading the club B&F i will go heave.
Fact, the board picked Roo as capatin because his is marketable, the players picked Lenny because he is a leader.
The only one that spat the dummy was Roo, otherwise he wouldn't have come out today to tell the public that he wasn't one of the players Ross label soft.

[joffaboy]

Ross was doing fine up to the end of the NAB cup, then the board made a decision on our captain, a captain that was chosen because he is marketable, not because the players wanted him.
Lets see were his loyalty is in 2010

Thought the previous coach gave us a plethora of leaders with rotating captaincy and we had numerous on field leaders. Wasn't the captaincy just tossing the coin at the beginning of the game?

Suddenly we have lost our way because Lenny has spat the dummy and so has Luke Ball because hey didn't get the captaincy and the players have followed them.

Add that to the fact that the players wont play for Ros Lton.

Sheesh who the F*** do these selfish little cabbages play for? Not the captain not the coach. Our group is a complee rabble according to the good souls at Saintsational

You have to be joking about Lenny and Ball, have a look at todays paper on stats for our player. If Lenny is not leading the club B&F i will go heave.
Fact, the board picked Roo as capatin because his is marketable, the players picked Lenny because he is a leader.
The only one that spat the dummy was Roo, otherwise he wouldn't have come out today to tell the public that he wasn't one of the players Ross label soft.

So is it Roos fault, the boards fault, or Ross Lyons fault that the players have all spat it?

[Halo Halo]

"So is it Roos fault, the boards fault, or Ross Lyons fault that the players have all spat it?

Its Ross Lyons fault.. As a coach he has to be able to communicate with his players & he has to earn their respect & I dont think he does either!!

[Behind Play]

Ross was doing fine up to the end of the NAB cup, then the board made a decision on our captain, a captain that was chosen because he is marketable, not because the players wanted him.
Lets see were his loyalty is in 2010

Thought the previous coach gave us a plethora of leaders with rotating captaincy and we had numerous on field leaders. Wasn't the captaincy just tossing the coin at the beginning of the game?

Suddenly we have lost our way because Lenny has spat the dummy and so has Luke Ball because hey didn't get the captaincy and the players have followed them.

Add that to the fact that the players wont play for Ros Lton.

Sheesh who the F*** do these selfish little cabbages play for? Not the captain not the coach. Our group is a complee rabble according to the good souls at Saintsational

You have to be joking about Lenny and Ball, have a look at todays paper on stats for our player. If Lenny is not leading the club B&F i will go heave.
Fact, the board picked Roo as capatin because his is marketable, the players picked Lenny because he is a leader.
The only one that spat the dummy was Roo, otherwise he wouldn't have come out today to tell the public that he wasn't one of the players Ross label soft.

So is it Roos fault, the boards fault, or Ross Lyons fault that the players have all spat it?

Maybe they are premadonnas, and yes, Ross seems to have lost them...... I am only replying to the thread, and my belief is the selection of the captain has been the instigator.
Don't shoot me down because my opinion may differ to others.

[asiu]

have continually voiced my opinion against the rooster being capitan

let him be the franchise player

agreed ......piss poor decision, but once its made ....the minority has to get in line

time wounds all heals

[Buckets]

Ross was doing fine up to the end of the NAB cup, then the board made a decision on our captain, a captain that was chosen because he is marketable, not because the players wanted him.
Lets see were his loyalty is in 2010

Thought the previous coach gave us a plethora of leaders with rotating captaincy and we had numerous on field leaders. Wasn't the captaincy just tossing the coin at the beginning of the game?

Suddenly we have lost our way because Lenny has spat the dummy and so has Luke Ball because hey didn't get the captaincy and the players have followed them.

Add that to the fact that the players wont play for Ros Lton.

Sheesh who the F*** do these selfish little cabbages play for? Not the captain not the coach. Our group is a complee rabble according to the good souls at Saintsational

You have to be joking about Lenny and Ball, have a look at todays paper on stats for our player. If Lenny is not leading the club B&F i will go heave.
Fact, the board picked Roo as capatin because his is marketable, the players picked Lenny because he is a leader.The only one that spat the dummy was Roo, otherwise he wouldn't have come out today to tell the public that he wasn't one of the players Ross label soft.

Very interesting! How is it that you know this information? Or is just your theory?

[joffaboy]

*bump*

Interesting read exactly one year on.

Geez I was the voice of reason