how refreshing was it to see
Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators
- mad saint guy
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 7065
- Joined: Tue 26 Jul 2005 9:44pm
- Location: Melbourne
- Has thanked: 52 times
- Been thanked: 356 times
So everyone on here is complaining about our poor footskills and inability to move the ball forwards quickly...while the majority also seem to want Jones, who is the worst kick and decision-maker on the list to get a game.
I don't think he is really that similar to a blonde McGough. They are both terrible kicks, but McGough's strength was winning the ball at ground level and shovelling it out to the runners. Jones' strength is that he's willing to chase the guy who just beat him to the ball, and 1/10th of the time he catches him and gets a free kick. I think McGough's strong point was far more useful.
I don't think he is really that similar to a blonde McGough. They are both terrible kicks, but McGough's strength was winning the ball at ground level and shovelling it out to the runners. Jones' strength is that he's willing to chase the guy who just beat him to the ball, and 1/10th of the time he catches him and gets a free kick. I think McGough's strong point was far more useful.
- st_Trav_ofWA
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 8886
- Joined: Wed 13 Sep 2006 7:10pm
- Location: Perth
- Contact:
heck why not drop Gram who i think is the worst kick and decisionmaker in the team and replace him with CJ at least then we lose nothing in the kicking and decision making but gain a player willing to chase and lay a tackle ?mad saint guy wrote:So everyone on here is complaining about our poor footskills and inability to move the ball forwards quickly...while the majority also seem to want Jones, who is the worst kick and decision-maker on the list to get a game.
I don't think he is really that similar to a blonde McGough. They are both terrible kicks, but McGough's strength was winning the ball at ground level and shovelling it out to the runners. Jones' strength is that he's willing to chase the guy who just beat him to the ball, and 1/10th of the time he catches him and gets a free kick. I think McGough's strong point was far more useful.
"The team that wins in the most positions and makes the least amount of mistakes, usually wins the game." -- Allan Jeans
http://westernsaints.wordpress.com/
http://westernsaints.wordpress.com/
- evertonfc
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 7261
- Joined: Mon 08 Mar 2004 9:11pm
- Location: 'Quietly Confident' County
- Has thanked: 115 times
- Been thanked: 267 times
- Contact:
"But he tries hard..."mad saint guy wrote:So everyone on here is complaining about our poor footskills and inability to move the ball forwards quickly...while the majority also seem to want Jones, who is the worst kick and decision-maker on the list to get a game.
People bitch and moan about our disposal but want to make allowances for one of the worst ball users in the AFL?
I'd laugh...but people really do think that way
![Confused :?](./images/smilies/icon_confused.gif)
That's all true; I think the likeness is more based on the fact they both couldn't kick and relied on endeavour.I don't think he is really that similar to a blonde McGough. They are both terrible kicks, but McGough's strength was winning the ball at ground level and shovelling it out to the runners. Jones' strength is that he's willing to chase the guy who just beat him to the ball, and 1/10th of the time he catches him and gets a free kick. I think McGough's strong point was far more useful.
It's also based on the fact that while both have occaisional moments, neither are equipped to play AFL football.
The fact that people think CJ is capable of playing AFL football I find horrifying - but also indicative of exactly where we stand as a club and how far we've receded that we no longer care about skill, but that we're happy to have plodders who "chase hard" in our best 22.
Scary.
Because Gram, whilst out of form, can actually play. He has proven this.st_Trav_ofWA wrote:heck why not drop Gram who i think is the worst kick and decisionmaker in the team and replace him with CJ at least then we lose nothing in the kicking and decision making but gain a player willing to chase and lay a tackle ?
He needs a little bit of tweaking. CJ can't kick or win the footy - and won't improve.
Clueless and mediocre petty tyrant.
![Image](http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/684651e21d.jpg)
![Image](http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/684651e21d.jpg)
- duckduckduckgoose
- Club Player
- Posts: 615
- Joined: Sun 13 May 2007 12:55pm
Maybe has more potential as a greyhound then?fingers wrote:he chases and chases hard.
Does anyone else realise he's 24 and actually older than Jason Gram?
Now im not knocking him personally, but it certainly shows up our lack of depth when our "kids" need hearing aids.
I bought a shirt from Target once.
It had a hard tag on it too.
I know how Dal feels.
It had a hard tag on it too.
I know how Dal feels.
- St Chris
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 2153
- Joined: Wed 05 Apr 2006 2:20pm
- Has thanked: 4 times
- Been thanked: 41 times
I don't think anyone's mentioned it, but Jones's IMPROVEMENT is the reason he is getting picked, and is still on the list.
He is never going to have silky skills, but he obviously works hard at it because his skills have improved out of sight since this time last year.
He is learning how to get around not having great skills too. He's not gonna thread a 50m worm burner onto Kosi's chest, but he isn't trying to. He can hit a free player 20m sideways, then that's better than not having the ball in the first place.
And to say he's chasing because he's second to the ball, there's only 2 guys (hayes and ball) actually getting their own footy at the moment. The others are second to the footy, but only jog behind in a half-ar$ed attempt to look interested.
He is never going to have silky skills, but he obviously works hard at it because his skills have improved out of sight since this time last year.
He is learning how to get around not having great skills too. He's not gonna thread a 50m worm burner onto Kosi's chest, but he isn't trying to. He can hit a free player 20m sideways, then that's better than not having the ball in the first place.
And to say he's chasing because he's second to the ball, there's only 2 guys (hayes and ball) actually getting their own footy at the moment. The others are second to the footy, but only jog behind in a half-ar$ed attempt to look interested.
- saintsRrising
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 30089
- Joined: Mon 15 Mar 2004 11:07am
- Location: Melbourne
- Has thanked: 711 times
- Been thanked: 1233 times
Look CJ is no star...
More talented players such as Fiora nad Raph should be keeping him out of the team....but they are currently not delivering enough to do so.
Schneider too should be way in front...but Schneiders last two games have been crap.
However even with his flaws..CJ's strength's currently outweigh his weaknesses compared with other options that we currently have at our disposal.
In particular we lack players at pressent that lack effort and commitment.
Based on his game against the Lion's CJ more than deserves his spot for the Demons game.
More talented players such as Fiora nad Raph should be keeping him out of the team....but they are currently not delivering enough to do so.
Schneider too should be way in front...but Schneiders last two games have been crap.
However even with his flaws..CJ's strength's currently outweigh his weaknesses compared with other options that we currently have at our disposal.
In particular we lack players at pressent that lack effort and commitment.
Based on his game against the Lion's CJ more than deserves his spot for the Demons game.
Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
13.2 touches a game whilst playing for us. Ball magnet!derby Street wrote:Now that is a big call - I must go back through the records and see which games McGough racked up all these possessions as "he is one of the best you have seen at getting his hands on the ball" You are joking.
Don't let a few facts spoil a good story !
- evertonfc
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 7261
- Joined: Mon 08 Mar 2004 9:11pm
- Location: 'Quietly Confident' County
- Has thanked: 115 times
- Been thanked: 267 times
- Contact:
Seriously, I give up.
We have massive problems with disposal, and people want to bring in more players with disposal so bad that it makes Jayson Daniels look good?
Oh man...intensity is one thing, but jesus, give me a jumper and I'll show you intensity. Doesn't mean I'm good enough to play AFL.
Look...
I've got nothing against CJ. I just can't stand that when one of our major problems is ball usage - it's crippling us - people want to promote such a dreadful user of the ball.
That doesn't fix the problem. Don't we need to fix our problems before exacerbating them?
We have massive problems with disposal, and people want to bring in more players with disposal so bad that it makes Jayson Daniels look good?
Oh man...intensity is one thing, but jesus, give me a jumper and I'll show you intensity. Doesn't mean I'm good enough to play AFL.
Look...
I've got nothing against CJ. I just can't stand that when one of our major problems is ball usage - it's crippling us - people want to promote such a dreadful user of the ball.
That doesn't fix the problem. Don't we need to fix our problems before exacerbating them?
Clueless and mediocre petty tyrant.
![Image](http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/684651e21d.jpg)
![Image](http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/684651e21d.jpg)
I honestly can't believe this post
If he didn't have blonde hair u wouldn't even notice him on the field.
I know alot of people on here must watch Casey Scorps play and if they did they would know the CJ has no time in the VFL. He is constantly rushed and misses simple targets by hand and foot. But at least he gets the ball
In the AFL he still misses targets and looks rushed but he only gets the footy maybe 6 times a game.
Lets not look through rose coloured glasses bedause we all love a blonde footballer at st kilda.
He is hopeless
He is Jason Daniels without the ability to get the ball. Or the time. Or the ability to stop a player.
If we just went on our ability to tackle every one on this site could get a game
Get Real
If he didn't have blonde hair u wouldn't even notice him on the field.
I know alot of people on here must watch Casey Scorps play and if they did they would know the CJ has no time in the VFL. He is constantly rushed and misses simple targets by hand and foot. But at least he gets the ball
In the AFL he still misses targets and looks rushed but he only gets the footy maybe 6 times a game.
Lets not look through rose coloured glasses bedause we all love a blonde footballer at st kilda.
He is hopeless
He is Jason Daniels without the ability to get the ball. Or the time. Or the ability to stop a player.
If we just went on our ability to tackle every one on this site could get a game
Get Real
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 1105
- Joined: Sun 27 Apr 2008 12:29am
- Location: everywhere
- Has thanked: 47 times
- Been thanked: 74 times
ThomasR wrote:13.2 touches a game whilst playing for us. Ball magnet!derby Street wrote:Now that is a big call - I must go back through the records and see which games McGough racked up all these possessions as "he is one of the best you have seen at getting his hands on the ball" You are joking.
Don't let a few facts spoil a good story !
So Tommy you say 13.2 disposals per game is a ball magnet - heaven help us - using those stas we still have lots of " ball magnets" playing but are getting thrashed in contested possessions / disposals. ?????
Clint Jones actually is averaging 11.5 disposals per game so he is NEARLY a ball magnet like McGough.
![Rolling Eyes :roll:](./images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif)
![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
-
- SS Life Member
- Posts: 3465
- Joined: Fri 29 Oct 2004 1:01pm
- Has thanked: 91 times
- Been thanked: 162 times
Disposal efficiency:evertonfc wrote:I've got nothing against CJ. I just can't stand that when one of our major problems is ball usage - it's crippling us - people want to promote such a dreadful user of the ball.
Dal Santo - 81% (down from 84% last year)
Hayes - 71% (down from 78%)
Joey - 70% (down from 79%)
Ball - 65% (down from 75%)
Jones - 77% (up from 56%)
For a guy who's been called one of the worst users of the ball in the league and one of the worst decision-makers, he's been hitting an awful lot of targets. He's been getting a lot of footy in a relatively small amount of TOG. He's been getting it in contested and uncontested situations. He's cut down on the clangers considerably. I've seen a massive improvement in Jones since last year and think he can improve much more.
Yeah nah pleasing positive
- BAM! (shhhh)
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 2134
- Joined: Thu 24 May 2007 5:23pm
- Location: The little voice inside your head
In his Saints games so far this year, Jones disposal hasn't been bad.
He did have one kick at goal which I recall thinking any AFL level player should have been able to kick... but in general play, his hanballs have been fine, and he's limited his turnovers.
I expect it to revert, I'm not sold, but on form at the moment, he's earning his spot.
He did have one kick at goal which I recall thinking any AFL level player should have been able to kick... but in general play, his hanballs have been fine, and he's limited his turnovers.
I expect it to revert, I'm not sold, but on form at the moment, he's earning his spot.
"Everything comes to he who hustles while he waits"
- Henry Ford
- Henry Ford
-
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 2246
- Joined: Thu 18 Mar 2004 5:14pm
- Location: Level 1 Aisle 37 Row G Telstra Dome
Goes to show once an opinion has been made some people never change despite the evidence. Dare say if you consider the amount of ball CJ gets compared to Dal, Lendog, Joey and Bally his % should be higher. The more you get the ball more likely you are to turn it over. Only superstars get plenty and have high efficiency rates.vacuous space wrote:Disposal efficiency:evertonfc wrote:I've got nothing against CJ. I just can't stand that when one of our major problems is ball usage - it's crippling us - people want to promote such a dreadful user of the ball.
Dal Santo - 81% (down from 84% last year)
Hayes - 71% (down from 78%)
Joey - 70% (down from 79%)
Ball - 65% (down from 75%)
Jones - 77% (up from 56%)
For a guy who's been called one of the worst users of the ball in the league and one of the worst decision-makers, he's been hitting an awful lot of targets. He's been getting a lot of footy in a relatively small amount of TOG. He's been getting it in contested and uncontested situations. He's cut down on the clangers considerably. I've seen a massive improvement in Jones since last year and think he can improve much more.
Bleeding Red, Black and White for 38 years!
Life Motto - Fortius Quo Fidelius
Raph "Cult Hero" Clarke Fan Club.
Life Motto - Fortius Quo Fidelius
Raph "Cult Hero" Clarke Fan Club.
Also he always kicks no more than 20 metres or handballs so you would hope he has a better %.redwhite&blackblood wrote:Goes to show once an opinion has been made some people never change despite the evidence. Dare say if you consider the amount of ball CJ gets compared to Dal, Lendog, Joey and Bally his % should be higher. The more you get the ball more likely you are to turn it over. Only superstars get plenty and have high efficiency rates.vacuous space wrote:Disposal efficiency:evertonfc wrote:I've got nothing against CJ. I just can't stand that when one of our major problems is ball usage - it's crippling us - people want to promote such a dreadful user of the ball.
Dal Santo - 81% (down from 84% last year)
Hayes - 71% (down from 78%)
Joey - 70% (down from 79%)
Ball - 65% (down from 75%)
Jones - 77% (up from 56%)
For a guy who's been called one of the worst users of the ball in the league and one of the worst decision-makers, he's been hitting an awful lot of targets. He's been getting a lot of footy in a relatively small amount of TOG. He's been getting it in contested and uncontested situations. He's cut down on the clangers considerably. I've seen a massive improvement in Jones since last year and think he can improve much more.
-
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 2246
- Joined: Thu 18 Mar 2004 5:14pm
- Location: Level 1 Aisle 37 Row G Telstra Dome
You'd hope he is learning from the best 20m kick in the league....... one R Harvey.plugger66 wrote:Also he always kicks no more than 20 metres or handballs so you would hope he has a better %.redwhite&blackblood wrote:Goes to show once an opinion has been made some people never change despite the evidence. Dare say if you consider the amount of ball CJ gets compared to Dal, Lendog, Joey and Bally his % should be higher. The more you get the ball more likely you are to turn it over. Only superstars get plenty and have high efficiency rates.vacuous space wrote:Disposal efficiency:evertonfc wrote:I've got nothing against CJ. I just can't stand that when one of our major problems is ball usage - it's crippling us - people want to promote such a dreadful user of the ball.
Dal Santo - 81% (down from 84% last year)
Hayes - 71% (down from 78%)
Joey - 70% (down from 79%)
Ball - 65% (down from 75%)
Jones - 77% (up from 56%)
For a guy who's been called one of the worst users of the ball in the league and one of the worst decision-makers, he's been hitting an awful lot of targets. He's been getting a lot of footy in a relatively small amount of TOG. He's been getting it in contested and uncontested situations. He's cut down on the clangers considerably. I've seen a massive improvement in Jones since last year and think he can improve much more.
Bleeding Red, Black and White for 38 years!
Life Motto - Fortius Quo Fidelius
Raph "Cult Hero" Clarke Fan Club.
Life Motto - Fortius Quo Fidelius
Raph "Cult Hero" Clarke Fan Club.
- evertonfc
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 7261
- Joined: Mon 08 Mar 2004 9:11pm
- Location: 'Quietly Confident' County
- Has thanked: 115 times
- Been thanked: 267 times
- Contact:
When was the last time anyone saw Jones win contested footy in a real pack (not skirting the fringes)? He wins it outisde the contested zone, so, naturally his effectiveness will be up.
He's taken to kicking the ball sideways and short a lot this year (which slows up our play), and if he goes long, he lollypops it (which are not considered clangers).
There's so much more to kicking effectiveness than stats. Does he kick to space? Does he move the ball quickly? Does he take the best option? Can he find an teammate more than 30m forward of his current position? Can he kick in front of goals?
I don't rate Birss at all, but I'd much rather him...
Jones always seems second the ball; hence why people think he's a great chaser. And when he does get it, it's genuinely rabbit in the headlight stuff.
At 24, how much improvement can we really expect by the age of 26?
He's taken to kicking the ball sideways and short a lot this year (which slows up our play), and if he goes long, he lollypops it (which are not considered clangers).
There's so much more to kicking effectiveness than stats. Does he kick to space? Does he move the ball quickly? Does he take the best option? Can he find an teammate more than 30m forward of his current position? Can he kick in front of goals?
I don't rate Birss at all, but I'd much rather him...
Jones always seems second the ball; hence why people think he's a great chaser. And when he does get it, it's genuinely rabbit in the headlight stuff.
At 24, how much improvement can we really expect by the age of 26?
Clueless and mediocre petty tyrant.
![Image](http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/684651e21d.jpg)
![Image](http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/684651e21d.jpg)