Roo Against Melbourne...where would you play him?

[Saints Premiers 2008]

goddard would work at chf...he is big, strong mark, good and accurate kick...he is an angry man

rooey on the wing should cause havoc against the dee's...bruce would surely run with him and he should take him apart

[saintsrokk]

not quick enough to be FB
________
WASHINGTON DISPENSARIES

[BAM! (shhhh)]

We sorted Stewie Leowe out, so I'm sure a good kicking coach will help Roo too.

It was Peter Hudson that helped improve Stewie's accuracy at shooting for goal. We should hire someone like Plugger!

Why?

Apparently Roo is a good a kick as every other forward in the competition.

CHB BTW - We really lack a dominate CHB that dictates the game. Structurely we are really struggling in this area. Chad Cornes mould.

Well to be fair, most of us who think Roo is as good a kick at goal as just about anyone (there are certainly better, but they're not as ubiquitous as other threads have had it) were posting before we had degruch telling us Roo was the worst kick at goal he's ever seen.

I'm sure we're all duly chastised.

The miss on Sunday was a shocker.

Worthy of Buddy:)

get so perspective all players miss goals its just cause we want to see Roo kick them it becomes more obvious to us look at Pav highly regarded as a top goal kicker yet twice this season he has hit the post in very gettable situations that have cost his team the game ... we are very over critical of our Roo

erm, was the sarcasm to subtle?

on the subject of bad misses, 2 words. Brad Johnson.

[Spinner]

We sorted Stewie Leowe out, so I'm sure a good kicking coach will help Roo too.

It was Peter Hudson that helped improve Stewie's accuracy at shooting for goal. We should hire someone like Plugger!

Why?

Apparently Roo is a good a kick as every other forward in the competition.

CHB BTW - We really lack a dominate CHB that dictates the game. Structurely we are really struggling in this area. Chad Cornes mould.

Well to be fair, most of us who think Roo is as good a kick at goal as just about anyone (there are certainly better, but they're not as ubiquitous as other threads have had it) were posting before we had degruch telling us Roo was the worst kick at goal he's ever seen.

I'm sure we're all duly chastised.

The miss on Sunday was a shocker.

Worthy of Buddy:)

get so perspective all players miss goals its just cause we want to see Roo kick them it becomes more obvious to us look at Pav highly regarded as a top goal kicker yet twice this season he has hit the post in very gettable situations that have cost his team the game ... we are very over critical of our Roo

erm, was the sarcasm to subtle?

on the subject of bad misses, 2 words. Brad Johnson.

Who's saying Roo misses under pressurised situations???

[degruch]

He misses under unpressurised situation too...

[The_Dud]

He misses under unpressurised situation too...

as does every other footballer in existance......

[Dan Warna]

what kind of coach would risk long term injury by playing injured players.

disgraceful.

[The_Dud]

what kind of coach would risk long term injury by playing injured players.

disgraceful.

i hope we don't end up with another 'Luke Ball' situation

[Spinner]

He misses under unpressurised situation too...

as does every other footballer in existance......

Are you saying that it is not possible for individual footballer to have different kicking abilities???

Or do they all just kick the same?

All just as good as each other???

[BAM! (shhhh)]

He misses under unpressurised situation too...

as does every other footballer in existance......

Are you saying that it is not possible for individual footballer to have different kicking abilities???

Or do they all just kick the same?

All just as good as each other???

While that is obviously not the case, when dealing with any elite sport, fundamental skills like shooting at goal do tend to correlate very highly. The ourliers are players like Matthew Lloyd who throughout his career has had a very high conversion, or, at the other end, someone like Travis Cloke, who has a very poor conversion.

For the bulk of players who take a meaningful sample size of shots (i.e. forwards), the accuracy will revert to a mean - goalkicking is a skill that got them to the AFL, and while you mightn't want your kids to model their kicking on some of the techniques you see, if it works for that player they're at a talent level where they get to make that choice (a more prolific example of this than kicking is Major League Baseball players who have batting styles that are full of flaws, but hit well anyway).

Sometimes a forward will have a bad game, or bad patch, or really bad kick. The luxury with a Reiwoldt, or a Brad Johnson, who's been around for a while is we know they'll revert to the mean. Johnson won't miss 3 times inside 50 next week in the dying minutes - or quite possibly ever again in his career in quite that fashion. Reiwoldt will shank another kick at goal from directly in front, but in between, he's going to kick more than he misses.

Most forwards skill or otherwise when kicking at goal is far overblown, mainly because it's a set play and so for once everyone will see the same thing will little room for subjectivity. Contribution to creating the opportunities is much more important, unless their conversion is especially bad or good... which is what makes someone like Reiwoldt so valuable.

At the moment, both our key forwards are converting fine - it's the low quantity of opportunity that's making it seem otherwise (both are on pace for under 50 goals, though not by much)... The only one getting adequate opportunity is Stephen Milne (who is also converting acceptably). After Reiwoldt, Kosi, and Milne, with Fraser out, our next leading goalkicker is David Armitage with 6.

Roo's goalkicking is not a problem. Team goalkicking and creating opportunites for our 3 scoreboard contributors, or taking some of the pressure off them is.

[degruch]

Anyone know Roo's career and season conversion rates? Whilst I'm more interested in his positioning, I'm interested in seeing if I'm right about his goal kicking. Certainly, just watching him proves I'm pretty close to the mark in describing him as aweful, but I'd be interested to see if stats prove he is average or not.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Anyone know Roo's career and season conversion rates? Whilst I'm more interested in his positioning, I'm interested in seeing if I'm right about his goal kicking. Certainly, just watching him proves I'm pretty close to the mark in describing him as aweful, but I'd be interested to see if stats prove he is average or not.

I crunched the #s in another thread recently, can't be bothered doing it again.

www.finalsiren.com

you'll find he's somewhere in the 61-62% area, same as most CHF goalkickers.

[degruch]

Meh...can't find it. Never mind. Lets hope he doesn't prove me right with some more set shot disasters this weekend...I'm sure if his knee is OK, it'll go a long way towards helping.

[The_Dud]

Anyone know Roo's career and season conversion rates? Whilst I'm more interested in his positioning, I'm interested in seeing if I'm right about his goal kicking. Certainly, just watching him proves I'm pretty close to the mark in describing him as aweful, but I'd be interested to see if stats prove he is average or not.

in a recent article his accuracy was, in recent times, ahead of all other key forwards except for Lloyd, Lucas, Brown, and there was one other, i can't remember

not saying he is better than the rest tho, Bam pretty much summed it up perfectly

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Anyone know Roo's career and season conversion rates? Whilst I'm more interested in his positioning, I'm interested in seeing if I'm right about his goal kicking. Certainly, just watching him proves I'm pretty close to the mark in describing him as aweful, but I'd be interested to see if stats prove he is average or not.

in a recent article his accuracy was, in recent times, ahead of all other key forwards except for Lloyd, Lucas, Brown, and there was one other, i can't remember

not saying he is better than the rest tho, Bam pretty much summed it up perfectly

Bradshaw's better on a career basis (flirting with 66% if I remember right, which is ahead of the curve), and his numbers this year are tremendous.

The guy whose accuracy is really stunning at the moment is Murphy, who has kicked 20.2 to date. Odds are he'll drop off from that kind of average, but if he were to kick at around 60% from here on in, he'd still finish way ahead of the rest of the pack.

For an example of reversion in action, check out Ben McKinley's numbers. He kicked 14.2 in his first four games, and has kicked 4.5 from his next 3... 18.7 is still good (Reiwoldt is 17.8), but it turns quickly, and McKinley doesn't yet have the games behind him to predict what he'll do in the future with any confidence. Key forwards tend to kick 3 goals to every 2 behinds.

An interesting aside on Reiwoldt ( http://finalsiren.com/PlayerStats.asp?PlayerID=327 looked it up after all) he's had 1 bad year kicking at goal - 2005... when the Saints were in the spotlight every week. It's no wonder so many have a perception of him being a bad kick at goal, those numbers were verging on Travis Cloke-like.

[bigcarl]

in answer to the OP, he should play chf.

i've been a proponent of him playing on the wing (where I still believe he'd be devastating) but that was partly an attempt to fit riewoldt, koschitzke and gehrig into the same team and we no longer have that problem.

i'd try a four-man set up this week. riewoldt and dal santo at half forward. milne and kosi deep. give them as much SPACE as we can and see whether these four very good players can kick us a winning score.

[The Doc]

Anyone know Roo's career and season conversion rates? Whilst I'm more interested in his positioning, I'm interested in seeing if I'm right about his goal kicking. Certainly, just watching him proves I'm pretty close to the mark in describing him as aweful, but I'd be interested to see if stats prove he is average or not.

in a recent article his accuracy was, in recent times, ahead of all other key forwards except for Lloyd, Lucas, Brown, and there was one other, i can't remember

not saying he is better than the rest tho, Bam pretty much summed it up perfectly

Bradshaw's better on a career basis (flirting with 66% if I remember right, which is ahead of the curve), and his numbers this year are tremendous.

The guy whose accuracy is really stunning at the moment is Murphy, who has kicked 20.2 to date. Odds are he'll drop off from that kind of average, but if he were to kick at around 60% from here on in, he'd still finish way ahead of the rest of the pack.

For an example of reversion in action, check out Ben McKinley's numbers. He kicked 14.2 in his first four games, and has kicked 4.5 from his next 3... 18.7 is still good (Reiwoldt is 17.8), but it turns quickly, and McKinley doesn't yet have the games behind him to predict what he'll do in the future with any confidence. Key forwards tend to kick 3 goals to every 2 behinds.

An interesting aside on Reiwoldt ( http://finalsiren.com/PlayerStats.asp?PlayerID=327 looked it up after all) he's had 1 bad year kicking at goal - 2005... when the Saints were in the spotlight every week. It's no wonder so many have a perception of him being a bad kick at goal, those numbers were verging on Travis Cloke-like.

So a first year player in McKinley has kicked more goals in less games than the captain of our club and supposedly one of the best forwards in the comp? Does anyone else find that disturbing?

[BAM! (shhhh)]

So a first year player in McKinley has kicked more goals in less games than the captain of our club and supposedly one of the best forwards in the comp? Does anyone else find that disturbing?

Not even remotely. McKinley's had a pretty good year all things considered, but is nowhere near Reiwoldt in just about any area except having kicked 1 more goal in 1 less game... to worry about it would be about as relevant as worrying that Milne had more goals than Reiwoldt.

[The Doc]

So a first year player in McKinley has kicked more goals in less games than the captain of our club and supposedly one of the best forwards in the comp? Does anyone else find that disturbing?

Not even remotely. McKinley's had a pretty good year all things considered, but is nowhere near Reiwoldt in just about any area except having kicked 1 more goal in 1 less game... to worry about it would be about as relevant as worrying that Milne had more goals than Reiwoldt.

I find that equally disturbing

[The_Dud]

not disturbing at all

what team does McKinley play for? i bet their delivery into the forward line is 1000% better than ours

[The Doc]

A team that's won half as many games and who weren't touted as a premiership prospect at the start of the year. Are you happy to compare our supposedly elite midfield to one who is re-building? Maybe we should start our re-build...

[The_Dud]

A team that's won half as many games and who weren't touted as a premiership prospect at the start of the year. Are you happy to compare our supposedly elite midfield to one who is re-building? Maybe we should start our re-build...

WCE have a much better setup and gameplan than us, and i would say there delivery to there forwards is better than ours

also, WCE are missing about 5-6 players out of there Premiership team, so they're not exactly short of talent

[The Doc]

A team that's won half as many games and who weren't touted as a premiership prospect at the start of the year. Are you happy to compare our supposedly elite midfield to one who is re-building? Maybe we should start our re-build...

WCE have a much better setup and gameplan than us, and i would say there delivery to there forwards is better than ours

also, WCE are missing about 5-6 players out of there Premiership team, so they're not exactly short of talent

I agree that they probably have a much better set up, but please...

WCE Premiership team 2006

Beau Waters, Darren Glass, Daniel Chick
Adam Selwood, Adam Hunter, Brett Jones
Chad Fletcher, Chris Judd (c), Michael Braun
Rowan Jones, Ashley Hansen, Ben Cousins
Andrew Embley, Quinten Lynch, David Wirrpanda
Dean Cox, Tyson Stenglein, Daniel Kerr
Mark Seaby, Sam Butler, Steven Armstrong, Drew Banfield

versus

WCE Rd 9 2008 team

Matthew Rosa
Matthew Priddis
Andrew Embley
Chad Fletcher
Bradley Ebert
Michael Braun
Brett Jones
Tim Houlihan
David Wirrpanda
Chris Masten
Quinten Lynch
Darren Glass
Beau Wilkes
Brent Staker
Adam Selwood
Dean Cox
Steven Armstrong
Joshua Kennedy
Will Schofield
Benjamin McKinley
Ryan Davis

A total of 11 premiership players out! And they still deliver the ball better than us.

[Spinner]

...Protected species.

[Spinner]

not disturbing at all

what team does McKinley play for? i bet their delivery into the forward line is 1000% better than ours

Defending him against a player without knowing what club they play for???

Wow?

You go to some great lengths.