grant's take on the side.....

[stinger]

Grant Thomas laments 'terrible' Saints


May 26, 2008 - 9:07PM


Former St Kilda coach Grant Thomas doubts the AFL side is soft, but described Sunday's dismal loss to Brisbane as "terrible".

Current coach Ross Lyon was calm after the 46-point loss at the `Gabba, but did not mince his words as he said "a few" players were mentally and physically soft.

The Saints are still in touch with the top eight on a 4-5 win-loss record, but they have now lost three of their last four matches.

"It was a terrible performance and it's the worst for the year, obviously," Thomas told Melbourne radio station SEN.

"It's not how we want them to play and everything else, but I don't think Ross actually means that the players are soft.

"Collectively as a group, they're compounding under pressure and not playing as a team, not playing to the best of their ability."

St Kilda sacked Thomas at the end of the 2006 season and appointed Lyon, who took them to ninth last year.

There were high hopes for the Saints when they won the pre-season competition, but they have lost their way in the last month and only a strong last term prevented Sunday from becoming a total rout.

"If we're honest, which is a reflection of me (and) which grates on me ... we're not hard and we're not tough enough, consistently enough," Lyon said post-match.

"It's a reflection of me and my job at the minute, for the supporters and the club, to set us in a direction with a group of players who aren't mentally soft and physically soft and at the minute we've got a few that are - and opposition clubs know that.

"It's hard to put an exact figure but it's too many (players).

"We need players that will bleed for the guernsey.

"The heat will come on the club and myself and that's fair enough and we need to examine exactly why we're inconsistent and who wants to go forward with our leaders."

© 2008 AAP

[Bernard Shakey]

10th at best this year.

[JeffDunne]

Not sure why those comments warranted an article TBH.

[Teflon]

compounding the obvious....

[SainterX]

Ross Lyon you are the weakest of all. Your failure to make the tough choices and changes, and inability to modify your gameplan is the reason we now suck.

Who really would want to work for a boss who is an idiot?

Look up the word disillusioned Ross, as proven by the Weagles win last year our players can lift anytime they want. Ever think the players are trying to send you a message?

[Teflon]

Ross Lyon you are the weakest of all. Your failure to make the tough choices and changes, and inability to modify your gameplan is the reason we now suck.

Who really would want to work for a boss who is an idiot?

Look up the word disillusioned Ross, as proven by the Weagles win last year our players can lift anytime they want. Ever think the players are trying to send you a message?

Incisive post...

Hows that Eagle analogy working for you this season?...I mean its "all" the coach right?

[SainterX]

No its the players choice to not give it all, so they take some of the blame too, but surely they should be the biggest voice at the club, they are the ones who have to get the results so maybe people should heed what they are doing.

How could anyone be inspired by Lyons monotone voice and his emotionless ways?

[Saintschampions08]

Ross Lyon you are the weakest of all. Your failure to make the tough choices and changes, and inability to modify your gameplan is the reason we now suck.

Who really would want to work for a boss who is an idiot?

Look up the word disillusioned Ross, as proven by the Weagles win last year our players can lift anytime they want. Ever think the players are trying to send you a message?

LOL.

So you honestly think the players come to the Telstra Dome, saying to themselves "I'm going to play so badly today, maybe they'll sack RL"

So you honestly think our players go out every game, thinking: "Nah, i'll play well next week, i don't want to play well today".

So the sole reason we suck, is because of the game plan?

[Saintschampions08]

No its the players choice to not give it all, so they take some of the blame too, but surely they should be the biggest voice at the club, they are the ones who have to get the results so maybe people should heed what they are doing.

How could anyone be inspired by Lyons monotone voice and his emotionless ways?

The blokes that have the privilege of playing AFL, for $250,000 + a year, should.

In fact, if their was no coach, no history behind the club, no emotion, no feeling and no wanting, they should still be inspired to come out and play.

[JeffDunne]

In fact, if their was no coach, no history behind the club, no emotion, no feeling and no wanting, they should still be inspired to come out and play.

Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today

[SainterX]

No the reason we suck is disillusionment. The players are not shielded completely, they have a fair idea what the public think of the way we are playing, and like most they want to look good.

How does someone go from being mentally strong a few years back to mentally soft so quickly?

Why is it that Lyon claims he does not coach us to play so negative yet doesnt discipline the players for disobeying the instructions?
Why is it that he blames Sydney and Hawthorn for the negative crap we played in those games when he knows full well its our fault?

He is not the only one to blame, but he has to take some responsibility.

Why is it that Richmond can play entertaining football, Essendon and Carlton also, teams greatly inferior to us and yet we cannot?

We are the Mighty Saints.

[Teflon]

No its the players choice to not give it all, so they take some of the blame too, but surely they should be the biggest voice at the club, they are the ones who have to get the results so maybe people should heed what they are doing.

How could anyone be inspired by Lyons monotone voice and his emotionless ways?

The blokes that have the privilege of playing AFL, for $250,000 + a year, should.

In fact, if their was no coach, no history behind the club, no emotion, no feeling and no wanting, they should still be inspired to come out and play.

Great post.

In many ways your talking about professionalism and personal motivation on field. To me anyone who wears our jumper and needs a weekly Jeans-esque speech is in the wrong business.

Robert Harvey never has - shame we have a number of players who are just happy to be AFL pLayers "in name".

[SainterX]

No its the players choice to not give it all, so they take some of the blame too, but surely they should be the biggest voice at the club, they are the ones who have to get the results so maybe people should heed what they are doing.

How could anyone be inspired by Lyons monotone voice and his emotionless ways?

The blokes that have the privilege of playing AFL, for $250,000 + a year, should.

In fact, if their was no coach, no history behind the club, no emotion, no feeling and no wanting, they should still be inspired to come out and play.

Great post.

In many ways your talking about professionalism and personal motivation on field. To me anyone who wears our jumper and needs a weekly Jeans-esque speech is in the wrong business.

Robert Harvey never has - shame we have a number of players who are just happy to be AFL pLayers "in name".

How is it that a hack like GT could lift us but a pure professional like Lyon can not?
Everyone has to take responsibilty for this mess, but then again Ross is not playing while we have 22 coaches. So it's clear who the leading voices should be.
I never saw Ross Lyon play but I have to imagine that even him and the RoyBoys even entertained better than us.
Yes, the great man Harvs never shirks that issue, but surely that means he deserves better than this. If that means that the coach and half the players have to walk with him when he does retire then so be it.

[Teflon]

No its the players choice to not give it all, so they take some of the blame too, but surely they should be the biggest voice at the club, they are the ones who have to get the results so maybe people should heed what they are doing.

How could anyone be inspired by Lyons monotone voice and his emotionless ways?

The blokes that have the privilege of playing AFL, for $250,000 + a year, should.

In fact, if their was no coach, no history behind the club, no emotion, no feeling and no wanting, they should still be inspired to come out and play.

Great post.

In many ways your talking about professionalism and personal motivation on field. To me anyone who wears our jumper and needs a weekly Jeans-esque speech is in the wrong business.

Robert Harvey never has - shame we have a number of players who are just happy to be AFL pLayers "in name".

How is it that a hack like GT could lift us but a pure professional like Lyon can not?
Everyone has to take responsibilty for this mess, but then again Ross is not playing while we have 22 coaches. So it's clear who the leading voices should be.
I never saw Ross Lyon play but I have to imagine that even him and the RoyBoys even entertained better than us.
Yes, the great man Harvs never shirks that issue, but surely that means he deserves better than this. If that means that the coach and half the players have to walk with him when he does retire then so be it.

I DID see Ross Lyon play and can tell you he NEVER shirked a contest and you could see the soft display on the weekend turned his guts.

You keep blaming the coach - good work very knowledgable.

[SainterX]

You keep blaming the coach - good work very knowledgable. Rolling Eyes

Did you see where I wrote that everyone has to take responsibility?

Are you suggesting Lyon should be bulletproof and the blame should bounce right off him onto the players?

Surely not. This is everyones fault, no doubt. Then again if Lyon never shirked a contest as a player why did he try and shirk the blame and accuse Hawthorn last year and Sydney this year of cooking up such BS games?

Really though, as Essendon are finding out, how can you expect a man who did not know how to win as a player to teach other people how to win as a coach?[/b]

[Dan Warna]

No its the players choice to not give it all, so they take some of the blame too, but surely they should be the biggest voice at the club, they are the ones who have to get the results so maybe people should heed what they are doing.

How could anyone be inspired by Lyons monotone voice and his emotionless ways?

The blokes that have the privilege of playing AFL, for $250,000 + a year, should.

In fact, if their was no coach, no history behind the club, no emotion, no feeling and no wanting, they should still be inspired to come out and play.

Great post.

In many ways your talking about professionalism and personal motivation on field. To me anyone who wears our jumper and needs a weekly Jeans-esque speech is in the wrong business.

Robert Harvey never has - shame we have a number of players who are just happy to be AFL pLayers "in name".

How is it that a hack like GT could lift us but a pure professional like Lyon can not?
Everyone has to take responsibilty for this mess, but then again Ross is not playing while we have 22 coaches. So it's clear who the leading voices should be.
I never saw Ross Lyon play but I have to imagine that even him and the RoyBoys even entertained better than us.
Yes, the great man Harvs never shirks that issue, but surely that means he deserves better than this. If that means that the coach and half the players have to walk with him when he does retire then so be it.

I DID see Ross Lyon play and can tell you he NEVER shirked a contest and you could see the soft display on the weekend turned his guts.

You keep blaming the coach - good work very knowledgable.

Ross Lyon was an ordinary player who played in even more ordinary sides that hardly ever won.

he wasn't much then and he isn't much now.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

No its the players choice to not give it all, so they take some of the blame too, but surely they should be the biggest voice at the club, they are the ones who have to get the results so maybe people should heed what they are doing.

How could anyone be inspired by Lyons monotone voice and his emotionless ways?

The blokes that have the privilege of playing AFL, for $250,000 + a year, should.

In fact, if their was no coach, no history behind the club, no emotion, no feeling and no wanting, they should still be inspired to come out and play.

And politicians should always tell the truth, wars shouldn't be necessary, and if we all work together, no child need live in poverty.

Wage has nothing to do with it. They earn the money because they're entertainers. Unfortunately, professionalism has nothing to do with it either... players who were squibs as juniors aren't suddenly going to become tough guys because it's a job. In fact, making something a job is likely to make one less passionate about it, not more. I can't imagine being a Saint is a lot of fun right now, in the wake of Sunday... and perhaps that's why Lenny, Max and Harvey are able to bring it every week regardless where some of the players stepping from highl rated towards overrated aren't.

Maturity. Most of these guys are in their mid 20s learning the game isn't a lot of fun any more. Banger, Max, Lenny, they all know this already... and know that they don't get a free ride, they're veterans of 2000 and 2001.

If the core of this team gets together and decides they're going to play together, then there's a lot of talent going to waste for St. Kilda that can be harnessed. If not, then the size of the paycheck is irrelivant.

I'm no fan of Ross Lyon's work to date, but I don't envy him the task of getting the players as a whole to accept responsibility for the outcome of these games and really properly decide to change that result.

[bobmurray]

How is it that a hack like GT could lift us but a pure professional like Lyon can not?

Quite clearly GT was better than a hack,he just lost the plot,he was overtaken by his ego......

[BringBackMadDog]

Ross Lyon was an ordinary player who played in even more ordinary sides that hardly ever won.

Ross Lyon was far from an ordinary player, in fact he was a very good player and the Fitzroy side he played in came within an inch from playing in a grand final

[NoMore]

Teflon i love you for having your opinion even though i cannot fathom how you can support Ross.

I would love to hear from people who have played for a coach they didn't like compared to one they did like.

It is different even for people who love the game.

For a coach u love u will run through brick walls and be ashamed to face him after the game if u have not done what he asked or not given 100%

For a coach you are not fond of or don't rate. At the end of the game you just walk away not caring.

Like it or not a coach does make all the difference at any level in football. A simple thing like a paycheck will not motivate you. How many people go to work and bludge through the day just to collect their pay check