True Tef, and when Roo misses easy shots or Kosi drops sitters, as both did today, you cant help but blame them...
But articles by Mike criticising kosi, and supporters blaming roo for not winning games off his own boot arnt the problem with our club... Much like Kosi and Roo occasionally stuffing up isnt either, as cited earlier...
When we have 6-8 players week in, week out in single figure possies and contributing nothing, it wears our top tier out...
The clean out we have to have
Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators
. Fisher - Form has stagnated.
Dempster - Typical of the type we have recruited - previous club had it right
Geary - Indicative of the types we have drafted recently. Not up to it.
Jones - Same as Geary
Fiora - As per Dempster
C. Gardiner - As per Dempster
Gwilt - Same as Geary
Milne - As per Dempster
Gehrig - Self explanatory. No longer an AFL footballer.
Ferguson - Had it right the first time
Rix - As per Dempster
Birss - As per Dempster
Baker - Same as Gehrig.
I see nothing wrong with Jones , C.Gardiner , Dempster , Baker or Rix
yeah they mite be out of touch at the moment but if they had enough game time instead of wasting it on Milne , Birss , Gehrig and a few others we mite be able to blood some newbies and also give some lesser played guys a chance to say look at me I belong here .Also when you have 2 of your supposed best not kicking goals for 25 - 30 metres out you got a real problem .Roo and Kosi need to improve as well so why arent they on the list .
Dempster - Typical of the type we have recruited - previous club had it right
Geary - Indicative of the types we have drafted recently. Not up to it.
Jones - Same as Geary
Fiora - As per Dempster
C. Gardiner - As per Dempster
Gwilt - Same as Geary
Milne - As per Dempster
Gehrig - Self explanatory. No longer an AFL footballer.
Ferguson - Had it right the first time
Rix - As per Dempster
Birss - As per Dempster
Baker - Same as Gehrig.
I see nothing wrong with Jones , C.Gardiner , Dempster , Baker or Rix
yeah they mite be out of touch at the moment but if they had enough game time instead of wasting it on Milne , Birss , Gehrig and a few others we mite be able to blood some newbies and also give some lesser played guys a chance to say look at me I belong here .Also when you have 2 of your supposed best not kicking goals for 25 - 30 metres out you got a real problem .Roo and Kosi need to improve as well so why arent they on the list .
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The_Dud
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Otiman
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Re: The clean out we have to have
Let's just have a think about this now, if we're going to replace these players in one year.To the top wrote:Firstly, I would seek to retain Harvey because he is still one of our most valuable players, if not the most valuable.
But the following I would de-list:-
L. Fisher - Form has stagnated.
Dempster - Typical of the type we have recruited - previous club had it right
Geary - Indicative of the types we have drafted recently. Not up to it.
Jones - Same as Geary
Fiora - As per Dempster
C. Gardiner - As per Dempster
Gwilt - Same as Geary
Milne - As per Dempster
Gehrig - Self explanatory. No longer an AFL footballer.
Ferguson - Had it right the first time
Rix - As per Dempster
Birss - As per Dempster
Baker - Same as Gehrig.
McQualter - Had it right the first time
Pick 5
Pick 21
Pick 37
Pick 53
Then, after all the other picks are done, let's say pick 60.
Pick 61
Pick 62
Pick 63
Pick 64
Pick 65
Pick 66
Pick 67
Pick 68
Pick 69
Pick 70
How many AFL games do you think we would get out of those 10 final picks?
You would have to spend triple the budget of the biggest teams on the draft, (one off expense, mind you) to get maybe 2-3 players that play 100 games.
It's going to take 3 years to cut the fat. Starting this year with.
Gehrig
Harvey
Rix
Ferguson
Gwilt
Fiora
With some rookie elevations, LVR, Miles and Eddy.
For what it's worth, Geary has the goods and is worth persisting with. He's played how many AFL games? They can't all be stars in their first 10 games. Weight of expectation of our side has meant that all of our young kids have come under tremendous scrutiny.
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congorozides
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agree. Milne is the LEAST of our worries. A lot more guys struggling with getting a kick than milney. like about 90% of the team.The_Dud wrote:i can't believe Milne is still copping it
is he not the leading goal kicker at our club?
did he not win the game against the Tiges off his own boot?
yes he's a bit inconsistant, but in no way anywhere near the worst in our 22
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To the top
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Interesting responses.
Leigh Fisher is the only player I listed where I have regret, acknowledging his return from serious injury.
But the culture surrounding Baker and Milne is the reason this club is in trouble.
The defence of Milne that he kicks 2 goals a game (as he did Sunday) and that he leads the goal kicking is an indictement on the club, not a positive.
And until St Kilda realise that we will not improve.
There is the odd "fluke" game, and that is it.
And those trumpeting Baker, which of the 2 small aboriginal forwards of Melbourne will he play on this Sunday?
Yes, Baker could play on Milne - but his time of playing on Ablett, Didak, Davis and the rest of those with his body shape (but far more athletic and with far more pace - and they can kick a goal and/or contribute to the midfield) is past.
So who is he going to be matched up on next Sunday, Davey or W (with a wheel barrow on the end!)?
That is why Baker is past it, and St Kilda need to move on.
From here we have to turn and turn as many players as we can, as quickly as we can - and hope and trust we unearth some rolled gold talent - someone with exciting skills who can actually influence the result of a game - and particularly when we have to reverse a trend.
We missed out big time from the Thomas regime, where we did not go in search of as much talent as we could identify, did not embrace the Rookie List and recruited "back up" or "depth" players from other clubs - and ignored ruckmen.
The trouble is that we still appear to be listing "depth" or "back up" players, rejected by other clubs, instead of searching out our own talent.
We should be scouring every competition in the land, including to their lower levels identifying the "smokeys" we can hide away in the draft.
Looking for outstanding and exciting kids playing in senior competitions.
The work is there to be done right now.
Because we have upward of 14 players on our list who are not up to the ever evolving standard of AFL football, unfortunately.
You can not take your eye off player development these days, and the ordinary aspect is that you have to cut your losses ASAP if opportunity is not taken and the player is not making a significant impact at AFL level by Year 2.
If they can not get a few games in Year 1, show a bit and then consolidate in Year 2 and actually contribute, it is time to move on.
That is the business model for this competition.
Those who dwell are lost.
Yet we still say "Mini" and "Fergs" are going to save us.
And "Milney" and "Bakes" are icons.
McQualter, Ferguson, Milne and Baker are our problem, along with others.
Leigh Fisher is the only player I listed where I have regret, acknowledging his return from serious injury.
But the culture surrounding Baker and Milne is the reason this club is in trouble.
The defence of Milne that he kicks 2 goals a game (as he did Sunday) and that he leads the goal kicking is an indictement on the club, not a positive.
And until St Kilda realise that we will not improve.
There is the odd "fluke" game, and that is it.
And those trumpeting Baker, which of the 2 small aboriginal forwards of Melbourne will he play on this Sunday?
Yes, Baker could play on Milne - but his time of playing on Ablett, Didak, Davis and the rest of those with his body shape (but far more athletic and with far more pace - and they can kick a goal and/or contribute to the midfield) is past.
So who is he going to be matched up on next Sunday, Davey or W (with a wheel barrow on the end!)?
That is why Baker is past it, and St Kilda need to move on.
From here we have to turn and turn as many players as we can, as quickly as we can - and hope and trust we unearth some rolled gold talent - someone with exciting skills who can actually influence the result of a game - and particularly when we have to reverse a trend.
We missed out big time from the Thomas regime, where we did not go in search of as much talent as we could identify, did not embrace the Rookie List and recruited "back up" or "depth" players from other clubs - and ignored ruckmen.
The trouble is that we still appear to be listing "depth" or "back up" players, rejected by other clubs, instead of searching out our own talent.
We should be scouring every competition in the land, including to their lower levels identifying the "smokeys" we can hide away in the draft.
Looking for outstanding and exciting kids playing in senior competitions.
The work is there to be done right now.
Because we have upward of 14 players on our list who are not up to the ever evolving standard of AFL football, unfortunately.
You can not take your eye off player development these days, and the ordinary aspect is that you have to cut your losses ASAP if opportunity is not taken and the player is not making a significant impact at AFL level by Year 2.
If they can not get a few games in Year 1, show a bit and then consolidate in Year 2 and actually contribute, it is time to move on.
That is the business model for this competition.
Those who dwell are lost.
Yet we still say "Mini" and "Fergs" are going to save us.
And "Milney" and "Bakes" are icons.
McQualter, Ferguson, Milne and Baker are our problem, along with others.
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supersaints
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OK if we have this huge clean out where are we going to get better players from?? The draft is going to be worthless after next years with the new teams getting the concessions ???
And the president said " I did not have sex with that woman"
And our former president said " Football is like golf"
Go Sainters !!!!!
And our former president said " Football is like golf"
Go Sainters !!!!!
WIth respect to the OP I think that singling the players out and marking them for delisting is missing the point.
The problem is not merely that we have some crap players - of course we do - all teams do. It's the nature of the draft AFL system.
The problem is that
1/ individually only Robert Harvey and Max (maybe Michael Gardiner) are playing anywhere near their best.
2/ the players are not playing for each other as a team. For example, when the inside midfielders win a clearance there is no outside mid ready to offer an option for a handpass or to link the play. So the likes of Lenny and Ball kick a hopeful punt into the air towards the half-forward line. "Job done, we win the ball and send it to the forwards." think the mids - unfortunately this sort of pis-poor delivery is eaten for breakfast by the defending team who simply rebound and set up play properly for their team.
3/ it isn't enough to have Lenny, Ball and CJ putting their bodies on the line in the contested possessions. All the players need to bleed for it.
The problem is not merely that we have some crap players - of course we do - all teams do. It's the nature of the draft AFL system.
The problem is that
1/ individually only Robert Harvey and Max (maybe Michael Gardiner) are playing anywhere near their best.
2/ the players are not playing for each other as a team. For example, when the inside midfielders win a clearance there is no outside mid ready to offer an option for a handpass or to link the play. So the likes of Lenny and Ball kick a hopeful punt into the air towards the half-forward line. "Job done, we win the ball and send it to the forwards." think the mids - unfortunately this sort of pis-poor delivery is eaten for breakfast by the defending team who simply rebound and set up play properly for their team.
3/ it isn't enough to have Lenny, Ball and CJ putting their bodies on the line in the contested possessions. All the players need to bleed for it.
Hird... The unflushable one is now... just a turd...
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To the top
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Yes Richter, all clubs have players who do not come up to the expectations held for them when drafted.
But this is not a social club, or a social competition.
You identify and you replace.
And you keep doing it and doing it and doing it.
The is the competition. It is no place for "love ins" with players.
And in regards the draft becoming compromised from the year after next because of Demitriou's infatuation with non reality, that is precisely why St Kilda need to move heaven and earth THIS year.
The AFL have once again changed the goal posts by compromising the existing clubs in favour of to be formed "clubs".
So we have to move.
And before you move, you scour every competition in the land.
What St Kilda need to recognise now is that we need upwards of 14 players if they are out there.
So we have to look outside those easily identified, and on the radar of every club.
How many register for the Draft?
And how many actually get drafted?
We have to ensure we are working harder than any other club, and we are keeping our powder dry.
Some will win out if the changing of the rules, some will lose.
We must be a winner.
The alternative is to lose 5 or 6 from this year's list, re-draft a couple of them and wring our hands and blame Demitriou for compromising the draft at precisely the wrong time for us.
And going no where faster than we are now.
Because we basically have the same list as we had this year.
But this is not a social club, or a social competition.
You identify and you replace.
And you keep doing it and doing it and doing it.
The is the competition. It is no place for "love ins" with players.
And in regards the draft becoming compromised from the year after next because of Demitriou's infatuation with non reality, that is precisely why St Kilda need to move heaven and earth THIS year.
The AFL have once again changed the goal posts by compromising the existing clubs in favour of to be formed "clubs".
So we have to move.
And before you move, you scour every competition in the land.
What St Kilda need to recognise now is that we need upwards of 14 players if they are out there.
So we have to look outside those easily identified, and on the radar of every club.
How many register for the Draft?
And how many actually get drafted?
We have to ensure we are working harder than any other club, and we are keeping our powder dry.
Some will win out if the changing of the rules, some will lose.
We must be a winner.
The alternative is to lose 5 or 6 from this year's list, re-draft a couple of them and wring our hands and blame Demitriou for compromising the draft at precisely the wrong time for us.
And going no where faster than we are now.
Because we basically have the same list as we had this year.
You are right here, this has been a problem for a long time. Ball and Hayes have become extractor type players a lot of the time. They need other players of lesser ability to play the role of underneath ball getters and allow the talents and skills of Hayes, Ball and Harves to use the ball effectively into the forward line.Richter wrote: 3/ it isn't enough to have Lenny, Ball and CJ putting their bodies on the line in the contested possessions. All the players need to bleed for it.
This is a role i could see Bakes doing, tough, uncompromising little ferret.
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Animal Enclosure
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I just cannot believe people will pot Bakes.
'The Baker & Milne culture'??? WTF is that?
Bakes has played a handful of games this year & we have missed him dreadfully.
"Yes, Baker could play on Milne - but his time of playing on Ablett, Didak, Davis and the rest of those with his body shape (but far more athletic and with far more pace - and they can kick a goal and/or contribute to the midfield) is past."
Bakes was out for the Geelong game (he always destroys Tablett) & was injured for the Filth game (with Davis & Didak running amok).
He's still in the top few taggers in the league when he is fit.
How about you pot some blokes that deserve it. There's a huge list of them but Bakes & Yapper are not the problem.
'The Baker & Milne culture'??? WTF is that?
Bakes has played a handful of games this year & we have missed him dreadfully.
"Yes, Baker could play on Milne - but his time of playing on Ablett, Didak, Davis and the rest of those with his body shape (but far more athletic and with far more pace - and they can kick a goal and/or contribute to the midfield) is past."
Bakes was out for the Geelong game (he always destroys Tablett) & was injured for the Filth game (with Davis & Didak running amok).
He's still in the top few taggers in the league when he is fit.
How about you pot some blokes that deserve it. There's a huge list of them but Bakes & Yapper are not the problem.
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To the top
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Animal Enclosure, your post attests to the Baker/Milne culture at St Kilda.
When we played Geelong, Ling tagged Dal Santo out of the game, got plenty of the ball himself and, to boot, potted a couple of goals.
In fact, everyone who tags a St Kilda player (except Harvey, but including Hayes against Sydney in particular) gets more possessions and really hurts us offensively.
Taggers no longer just curtail their opponents, they generate off them and become decisive players themselves.
It just seems to me that a part of the problem with St Kilda at present is that we have just too many whose primary function appears to be shutting an opposition player down - not beating their opponent AND contributing to St Kilda's offensive agenda.
Leigh Fisher got a media BOG in Round 1 for shutting Goodes down, and having 8 possessions himself.
Now he is struggling because his game seems to have changed focus - and probably by instruction - to shutting other players down.
Well, if you are getting 8 possessions a game you really have to keep your opponent to NIL possessions - that is how fine the margin is if that is the game you play.
And Baker always "destroys" Ablett?
He might have 4 years ago, but not now.
That is why St Kilda have stagnated - and the St Kilda culture is that Baker remains an icon player because he is "the game's best tagger".
Same as Milne is an icon player because he averages 2 goals a game, and leads the goal kicking this year.
Well, on Sunday when St Kilda were made to look most ordinary he did kick 2 - at the 17 minute mark of the last quarter and at the 25 minute mark of the last quarter. And that is without looking at his game the previous week.
Up until then, in his 150th game, he had had 5 touches for the day.
The excuse is that the ball was not coming into the full forward line.
So that takes one of our most experienced players, at 28 years and with 150 games, out of the game?
When we are having our collective pants pulled down because Harvey, Hayes, Ball and to a lesser extent Dal Santo and Montagna have no support in the mid-field.
Get the drift now?
And, if you do not get the drift then look at (by way of example) the way Davis and Didak ran us ragged all over the ground the other week - and still kicked goals.
That IS the difference.
It is time for a change of culture.
When we played Geelong, Ling tagged Dal Santo out of the game, got plenty of the ball himself and, to boot, potted a couple of goals.
In fact, everyone who tags a St Kilda player (except Harvey, but including Hayes against Sydney in particular) gets more possessions and really hurts us offensively.
Taggers no longer just curtail their opponents, they generate off them and become decisive players themselves.
It just seems to me that a part of the problem with St Kilda at present is that we have just too many whose primary function appears to be shutting an opposition player down - not beating their opponent AND contributing to St Kilda's offensive agenda.
Leigh Fisher got a media BOG in Round 1 for shutting Goodes down, and having 8 possessions himself.
Now he is struggling because his game seems to have changed focus - and probably by instruction - to shutting other players down.
Well, if you are getting 8 possessions a game you really have to keep your opponent to NIL possessions - that is how fine the margin is if that is the game you play.
And Baker always "destroys" Ablett?
He might have 4 years ago, but not now.
That is why St Kilda have stagnated - and the St Kilda culture is that Baker remains an icon player because he is "the game's best tagger".
Same as Milne is an icon player because he averages 2 goals a game, and leads the goal kicking this year.
Well, on Sunday when St Kilda were made to look most ordinary he did kick 2 - at the 17 minute mark of the last quarter and at the 25 minute mark of the last quarter. And that is without looking at his game the previous week.
Up until then, in his 150th game, he had had 5 touches for the day.
The excuse is that the ball was not coming into the full forward line.
So that takes one of our most experienced players, at 28 years and with 150 games, out of the game?
When we are having our collective pants pulled down because Harvey, Hayes, Ball and to a lesser extent Dal Santo and Montagna have no support in the mid-field.
Get the drift now?
And, if you do not get the drift then look at (by way of example) the way Davis and Didak ran us ragged all over the ground the other week - and still kicked goals.
That IS the difference.
It is time for a change of culture.
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Teflon
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doesn't matter who we get, they coach can't coach so its a waste of players.Teflon wrote:TTP hard to disagree. Im a Milne fan for example and its not just him but THIS DRAFT we have to make some hard choices .
Bewaire krime, da krimson bolt is comeing to yure nayborhood to smach krime
SHUT UP KRIME!
SHUT UP KRIME!
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Shaggy
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Correct IMO. So why delist him? Why not play him in a different role?To the top wrote:Leigh Fisher got a media BOG in Round 1 for shutting Goodes down, and having 8 possessions himself.
Now he is struggling because his game seems to have changed focus - and probably by instruction - to shutting other players down.
Any bloke who can play good footy as Fish did in 2006 after only 10 senior games and a year and half away from footy due to injury (ave 17 disposals a game) should not be finished just 2 years later.
Mini last year was hopeless after his tagging roles for the Saints and took the loss of confidence/form back to the VFL. This year he appears to be stepping up again.
Just because we may want these guys to be gun taggers doesn't mean they are suited full time to the job.
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st_Trav_ofWA
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to rebuild properly we need to lose
Harvey - Retirment (why would he want to go through yet another rebuild)
G-Train - Retirment
Ferg - delist enough is enough already Brooks II
Mini - Not good enuff to elivate to old to retain on rookie list
Gwilt - dellist hopefull the last JB smokey
we then need to put on the trade table for any bites of low draft picks (remember no judds up for grabs this year so the trade value of GOP's will be higher)
Gram
L Fisher
Raph
Kosi
goose
shnider
gilbert
then we should not pick up any player from anyother club over the age of 23
we then need to draft footballers not ex rugby converts or soccer converts or basketball players true footballers who can kick the ball over 50m and are fleet of foot
we need to elevate Van Rheen Miles and Eddy and cut mini & Attard then fill the rookie list with fast exciting kids with heaps of enthusiasm (i would say indiginious players but let be honest it doesnt matter what race the kid is)
then we need to change the game plan become the all out attacking side and get heaps of games into the younger players
we will prob be bottom 4 for a while but then we will be in a real possition to win a flag
Harvey - Retirment (why would he want to go through yet another rebuild)
G-Train - Retirment
Ferg - delist enough is enough already Brooks II
Mini - Not good enuff to elivate to old to retain on rookie list
Gwilt - dellist hopefull the last JB smokey
we then need to put on the trade table for any bites of low draft picks (remember no judds up for grabs this year so the trade value of GOP's will be higher)
Gram
L Fisher
Raph
Kosi
goose
shnider
gilbert
then we should not pick up any player from anyother club over the age of 23
we then need to draft footballers not ex rugby converts or soccer converts or basketball players true footballers who can kick the ball over 50m and are fleet of foot
we need to elevate Van Rheen Miles and Eddy and cut mini & Attard then fill the rookie list with fast exciting kids with heaps of enthusiasm (i would say indiginious players but let be honest it doesnt matter what race the kid is)
then we need to change the game plan become the all out attacking side and get heaps of games into the younger players
we will prob be bottom 4 for a while but then we will be in a real possition to win a flag
"The team that wins in the most positions and makes the least amount of mistakes, usually wins the game." -- Allan Jeans
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saintly
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Re: The clean out we have to have
why is it now that people are suddenly noticing. that the depth of players are bad!!!!evertonfc wrote:Absolute deadwood:
L. Fisher - Trade. Sydney will have him and probably get the best from him. We won't.
C Jones - Delist. He's too old and has reached his potential - and it's crap.
Fiora - Delist. Looked like he'd make it last year, but hasn't kicked on. All over.
Gwilt - Delist. Had his chance. We need footballers, not projects.
Gehrig - Delist. Now hopeless.
Ferguson - Should never have been redrafted. VFL only.
Rix - Delist. Hopeless.
Birss - Delist. Horrible by foot and far too one-sided, even if he has a go.
Blake - Delist. Wouldn't get a game in any other AFL club.
Throw in Attard (massively overrated), Milne, Dempster, Howard, McQualter, screw me...
Can you believe how many crap players we have?
has been bad since 2004. yes., the saints had 7 top 10 draft pickes. but what ahppened after that.
recruitment /drafting has not been good.
in 2003/2004/2005 we recruited to be like brisbane. Gone. the recrutiment was based on how berisbane was winning premierships not how a premiership could be won in the future. based on past success by others.
other teams went down different paths. bulldogs, kept drafting small, runners, hawthorn has small and tall but fast . how many aboriginal players.
rookies were developed. i belive hawthorn has a number of rookies that have been elevated.
the saints won't make the 8, don't dersver to be in the 8.
a clean out is required. and trading should be done.
if hawthorn was able to trade out high profile older players for draft picks so should we!
yoyou cannot sack the coach again! thats all the saints ever do. sack the coach when there are problems. Let him see out his contract. and then decide. I believe from the sounds of his press conference. he will be honest enough to walk away after his contract finishes if he can't do anything.
but if we sack the coach again. more turmoil, more angst, no stability in administraton, and its back to 80's and 90's again with headlines, etc.
It's no good looking for magical solutions ttp. There simply is not some fantastical pot of gold of players that exist off the radar of the recruiters of 16 clubs who can come in to make a difference. The fact is that the Dean Cox's of this world - who come off rookie lists and become big stars are a rarity. Any club may have 2 or 3 over a period of 5 years - but to expect to find a dozen or more in a year is crazy.To the top wrote: What St Kilda need to recognise now is that we need upwards of 14 players if they are out there.
So we have to look outside those easily identified, and on the radar of every club.
How many register for the Draft?
And how many actually get drafted?
Of course there will be turnover at year's end - there always is. But you can't just delist one third of the squad - that's madness.
We'll get 4 or 5 picks in the national draft and potentially upgrade a couple of rookies - say Eddy and Attard. We will have a few players retiring - G and Harvey at least. That only leaves space for 4 or 5 delistings, not the 14 you talk about.
We have to largely make do with what we have, but do better with it. At the moment the players are struggling and the coach is struggling - with selection, tactics, motivation....
......But there's no point in panicking and sacking the coach now - that will not get us anywhere. At season's end the board - which btw include Nathan Burke and Andrew Thompson, will have a review of the football department - they may have some tough decisions to make if we don't make finals.
Until then the players and the coach need to pull their fingers out or some of them will not be in the club's employ this time next year.
Hird... The unflushable one is now... just a turd...
Re: The clean out we have to have
agreedOtiman wrote:Let's just have a think about this now, if we're going to replace these players in one year.To the top wrote:Firstly, I would seek to retain Harvey because he is still one of our most valuable players, if not the most valuable.
But the following I would de-list:-
L. Fisher - Form has stagnated.
Dempster - Typical of the type we have recruited - previous club had it right
Geary - Indicative of the types we have drafted recently. Not up to it.
Jones - Same as Geary
Fiora - As per Dempster
C. Gardiner - As per Dempster
Gwilt - Same as Geary
Milne - As per Dempster
Gehrig - Self explanatory. No longer an AFL footballer.
Ferguson - Had it right the first time
Rix - As per Dempster
Birss - As per Dempster
Baker - Same as Gehrig.
McQualter - Had it right the first time
Pick 5
Pick 21
Pick 37
Pick 53
Then, after all the other picks are done, let's say pick 60.
Pick 61
Pick 62
Pick 63
Pick 64
Pick 65
Pick 66
Pick 67
Pick 68
Pick 69
Pick 70
How many AFL games do you think we would get out of those 10 final picks?
You would have to spend triple the budget of the biggest teams on the draft, (one off expense, mind you) to get maybe 2-3 players that play 100 games.
It's going to take 3 years to cut the fat. Starting this year with.
Gehrig
Harvey
Rix
Ferguson
Gwilt
Fiora
With some rookie elevations, LVR, Miles and Eddy.
For what it's worth, Geary has the goods and is worth persisting with. He's played how many AFL games? They can't all be stars in their first 10 games. Weight of expectation of our side has meant that all of our young kids have come under tremendous scrutiny.
FQF
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2013 trade/draft best ever?
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loyal in the good times and bad
In richo I trust
2013 trade/draft best ever?
Billings - future brownlow medallist Longer - future best ruck
Dunstan - future captain Eli - future cult hero
Acres - future norm smith
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The comments of Frawley are of interest, and give perspective.
In terms of re-generating our list, for 2009 we could start with :-
Howard Gilbert (a further tall, developing potential key defender)
Gram Maguire S. Fisher
Riewoldt Goddard Hayes
X. Clarke Koschitzke (A dangerous flanker with pace and skills)
Ball Allen Steven
Gardiner Dal Santo Montagna
McEvoy Armitage R. Clarke (Another mid-fielder of quality)
So (allowing for Maguire) we could be 3 players short of a reasonable team - on paper.
This allows for Harvey, King and Hudgden retiring. Maybe they will all go on, in which case they would be in line for selection, obviously.
The real problem is that below the players listed above, there is not much at all, which is why we currently rotate the same group of players.
And that is why we can afford the clean out, and need the clean out.
If we do the hard yards, and clean out the 14 identified (with all due sympathy to L. Fisher, who I hope proves me wrong over the remainder of 2007) our chances of introducing the 3 we require are enhanced.
They are out there.
If we draft 3 or 4, and re-draft a couple our chances are diminshed.
Because what we are then saying is that we want each of those drafted to step up to improve the side, add the flair and add the excitement - and fill specific requirements in terms of team structure.
Some of those being mentioned as "trade options" are simply stupid. You might trade an Everitt or a Hall, who were both disruptive and undisciplined, but you do not trade high quality footballers easily earmarked as being among your required/best players.
To trade the likes of Koschitzke, Gilbert and the like would be madness.
That is not the solution St Kilda requires.
We have to turn the bottom one third of our list and get a couple of their replacements to stand up and perform, with youthful excitement and flair.
And give the likes of Armitage, Howard, McEvoy and Steven their chance.
Because, on their shoulders also, we go forward.
In terms of re-generating our list, for 2009 we could start with :-
Howard Gilbert (a further tall, developing potential key defender)
Gram Maguire S. Fisher
Riewoldt Goddard Hayes
X. Clarke Koschitzke (A dangerous flanker with pace and skills)
Ball Allen Steven
Gardiner Dal Santo Montagna
McEvoy Armitage R. Clarke (Another mid-fielder of quality)
So (allowing for Maguire) we could be 3 players short of a reasonable team - on paper.
This allows for Harvey, King and Hudgden retiring. Maybe they will all go on, in which case they would be in line for selection, obviously.
The real problem is that below the players listed above, there is not much at all, which is why we currently rotate the same group of players.
And that is why we can afford the clean out, and need the clean out.
If we do the hard yards, and clean out the 14 identified (with all due sympathy to L. Fisher, who I hope proves me wrong over the remainder of 2007) our chances of introducing the 3 we require are enhanced.
They are out there.
If we draft 3 or 4, and re-draft a couple our chances are diminshed.
Because what we are then saying is that we want each of those drafted to step up to improve the side, add the flair and add the excitement - and fill specific requirements in terms of team structure.
Some of those being mentioned as "trade options" are simply stupid. You might trade an Everitt or a Hall, who were both disruptive and undisciplined, but you do not trade high quality footballers easily earmarked as being among your required/best players.
To trade the likes of Koschitzke, Gilbert and the like would be madness.
That is not the solution St Kilda requires.
We have to turn the bottom one third of our list and get a couple of their replacements to stand up and perform, with youthful excitement and flair.
And give the likes of Armitage, Howard, McEvoy and Steven their chance.
Because, on their shoulders also, we go forward.
Re: The clean out we have to have
Way off on a couple of them i think...To the top wrote:Firstly, I would seek to retain Harvey because he is still one of our most valuable players, if not the most valuable.
But the following I would de-list:-
L. Fisher - Form has stagnated.
Dempster - Typical of the type we have recruited - previous club had it right
Geary - Indicative of the types we have drafted recently. Not up to it.
Jones - Same as Geary
Fiora - As per Dempster
C. Gardiner - As per Dempster
Gwilt - Same as Geary
Milne - As per Dempster
Gehrig - Self explanatory. No longer an AFL footballer.
Ferguson - Had it right the first time
Rix - As per Dempster
Birss - As per Dempster
Baker - Same as Gehrig.
McQualter - Had it right the first time
So 14 spots up to be filled.
And the reasons for the position we are in is that we have 14 spots on our list needing to be filled with AFL standard footballers.
I would retain Hudgden for a further year, but to play in a back pocket, not full back.
Milne - leading goal kicker for the team, which to me is a disgrace because he is not a KPP he is a crumber and to be leading the goal kicking means he stays!
Fergo - give the boy a chance up forward for the remainder of the year or at least until Roo is no longer injured. Needs to prove that he can play, no use having him playing for Casey and not giving him a shot!
McQ - Same as above and the other point is that he a rookie so no loss either way!
Geary and Jones both need more time they have shown at various times they can play even if Jones' disposal is no the greatest. The fact that Jones was one of our better players and that he went in hard for the ball means that he stays!
Dempster - hasn't been too bad hell he has only played 3 matches for us and to be blunt has done the job required of him.
Birss - Same as above but problem is that we seem to have to many negating types in the team at once!
Baker - Gee you have seen this from how many games he has played this year give the guy a break let him get match fit and prepared before making a judgment on him!
Thats Mr. Smartarse to you