We have not developed an exicting talent in 5 years

[kaos theory]

The last quality player that has developed through our list was Sam Fisher. It has been 5 years since then, and in that time he have had the loss of players like:
- Jones,
- Penny,
- Hamill,
- Thommo,
- Black,
- Peckett,
- Powell,
- G-train (effectively gone as of 07)
Plus major injuries which has sent these players backwards:
- Goose
-Ball
Plus aging of key players:
- Harvey
- Maxy

All that talent, hardness and experience has been replaced by mostly VFL standard players, and a few ok prospects.

So what 'exicting' talent do we have coming through:
- Armo will be good, but is slow
-Mcenvoy - potential, but at least 2 to 3 years away from delivering
- Geary - should be good, but a long way off
- Allen - maybe
- Stevens - looks the goods, but 2 to 3 years away
- Gilbert - good, but not great, stuggled before his injury
- Howard - not shown much

Then the recyled players. Some ok, but no exciting or quality prospect that has found a niche at the saints:
- mini
- ferg
- birss
- Attard
- Dempster
- c gardner
- schinder
- M gardi
- King
- fiora

Look at our competition and the young talent they have coming through....we have a lot of work to do.....

[gooner]

Agree 100%.

[Statsman]

Is it possible to agree 110%? If so then I do.

[Stillwaiting]

I could not agree with your more. We have had a good enough side to bring young players in to to lessen the impact, but thanks to Grant, we are stuffed. Add to that the boring swans style we are heading back to our comfort zone, at the bottom

[bobmurray]

faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaark.......

It's looking a bit grim for the LONG SUFFERING Saints fans at the moment...

We've tried umpteen coaches at StKilda since 66 and we still haven't
won flag no.2.Doubt whether sacking Lyon will achieve anything at all.....

At least the dire position the club finds itself in buries the "best list"bulldust that gets peddled time and time again......

[maverick]

Spot on.

[Stillwaiting]

bobmurray

I think they mean best list in the bottom 8

[saintsrokk]

Youv'e said it!!!
________
Jarama

[Stillwaiting]

I feel sorry for Roo, he is being stifled by the coach.

[saintsRrising]

I feel sorry for Roo, he is being stifled by the coach.

Roo will be fine...he is just playing injured.

[meher baba]

Its utterly pitiful how the "Faction" on SS - now that they no longer dare to suggest that, as a coach, lyon is fit even to tie GT's shoelace, are trying to shift the blame for our current problems to an alleged failure to recruit adequately between 2004 to 2006 with our fabulous range of draft picks (#15 was the best of them as I recall).

You won't find any footy experts peddling this line of drivel anywhere, in fact the only place in the world you will ever read it is on good old saintsational!!

Ill let you into a secret guys. Poor recruiting won't explain the following

Dal gone backwards
Joey gone backwards
BJ no impact in 2008
Kosi gone backwards
Riewoldt gone backwards
Gram gone backwards
X gone backwards
Young players barely get a chance while plodders like attard,dempster,blake,cj are almost automatic selections
A list full of recycled players, none of whom look the goods (except, surprisingly, gardi, but he's as slow moving as an SBS movie)
Scoring gone backwards
Entertainment gone backwards
Defence gone backwards
Not only no plan b but barely a plan a (and, such as it is, the coach denies it has anything to with him
Seemingly no match day coaching
Little enthusiasm
No guts (other than 3 or 4 heroes)

Contribution of grant thomas to any of this: virtually zero

[Stillwaiting]

I still feel sorry for Roo, I know he is playing injured, but the style they play is killing him, and others. He deseves better than to have the ball delivered so slowly as they game plan says you have to kick 10 kicks backwards before going foward.

[kaos theory]

Its utterly pitiful how the "Faction" on SS - now that they no longer dare to suggest that, as a coach, lyon is fit even to tie GT's shoelace, are trying to shift the blame for our current problems to an alleged failure to recruit adequately between 2004 to 2006 with our fabulous range of draft picks (#15 was the best of them as I recall).

You won't find any footy experts peddling this line of drivel anywhere, in fact the only place in the world you will ever read it is on good old saintsational!!

Shove it up you ar$e MB.

Where did I say in my post that RL is doing a good job? I pointed to some basic facts about the list, yet you are the one that brings up this 'factional' stuff. Maybe becuase you are so deeply seated in a GT loving faction, which seems evidence by your stupid comment that GT bears NO responsibility for the quality of the list. He does till at least the end of 06.

For the record - I am dissapointed in RL, he is currently not doing well. But he is 1.5 years into a 3 year deal (GT had 5+ years). If he doesn't get his act together by the end of this yr, then he is in trouble. But unlike you, and your mates, I don't think that GT was a super hero and every thing he did was wonderful for our club...

[saintsRrising]

Ill let you into a secret guys. Poor recruiting won't explain the following

Dal gone backwards

As usual your view is distorted.....


Oppostion coaches tag him now.

Joey gone backwards

Crap...check his record...his last two seasons have been his best.

BJ no impact in 2008

Due to coming back after a knee.....

Kosi gone backwards

He was never up. A 5 game streak in so many years is not star material. Just part of your rose colored glasses.

Riewoldt gone backwards

You are dreaming. He is still a good player despite a dodgey knee.

Gram gone backwards

Basically he had one golden year..then opostion coaches realised he was defensively poor, could not tackle or spoil...they just match him up out of the game. He is one trick pony and opposition coaches stop that trick. His kicking has always been up and down.

X gone backwards

Again X was never up....

Contribution of grant thomas to any of this: virtually zero

None so blind...
As I posted BEFORE GT left...post Waldron he was destroying our list by squandering picks with poor pick ups... what i posted back then has come to pass.


Lyon may not be motivating the players at present but we have a crap list because once Waldron left the building GT pissed the list up against the wall.

[ausfatcat]

I still feel sorry for Roo, I know he is playing injured, but the style they play is killing him, and others. He deseves better than to have the ball delivered so slowly as they game plan says you have to kick 10 kicks backwards before going foward.

Yes but what worked in 04 and 05 wont work nowdays because of the consistant flooding from almost every team.

[saintsRrising]

Its utterly pitiful how the "Faction" on SS -

MB...how about you names names...and what INDIVIDUALS said???

Otherwise you post is pointless...as what can be discussed.

I said back before GT left that he was destroying our list...and this is what has occurred.


How did Brooks and Watts go today???

How was Ackland?

How was Knoble?

Was McGough BOG???



What do think about our long running policy of drafting slow and poorly skilled players???

What do you think about our long running under-use of the rookie system?

[plugger66]

Its utterly pitiful how the "Faction" on SS -

MB...how about you names names...and what INDIVIDUALS said???

Otherwise you post is pointless...as what can be discussed.

I said back before GT left that he was destroying our list...and this is what has occurred.


How did Brooks and Watts go today???

How was Ackland?

How was Knoble?

Was McGough BOG???



What do think about our long running policy of drafting slow and poorly skilled players???

The problem with that arguement is that we never noticed how poorly skilled or slow players were in 2004-06. By the way how did M Clarke go and Gardiner and King and Dempster and Schneider. Even Dal and joey and rooy and kosi and who ever you want to name how are they going under RL.

[Stillwaiting]

Yes but what worked in 04 and 05 wont work nowdays because of the consistant flooding from almost every team.[/quote]


Yes you are probably correct, but I cant see how this game plan can work. The idea should be to get the ball into our foward line much quicker than we do

(gee i hope this quote thing works)

[saintsRrising]

MB..facts and accuracy have never been your strong point....

IMO you look at some of our players through "GT eyes" and see what was not there...

Joey gone backwards

Year Team Games Kicks Handballs Disposals Marks Goals Behinds Tackles Hitouts Frees For Frees Ag. Brownlow
2008 St Kilda 9 16.3 6.7 23.0 4.4 0.6 0.4 3.1 0 1.8 0.9
2007 St Kilda 21 16.1 7.8 23.9 5.1 0.5 0.6 3.6 0 1.0 0.8 0.43
2006 St Kilda 22 12.3 6.9 19.1 4.8 0.6 0.6 3.7 0 0.4 1.0 0.14
2005 St Kilda 8 9.8 5.4 15.1 4.4 0.8 0.4 2.4 0 0.8 0.6 0.17
2004 St Kilda 9 6.4 4.8 11.2 3.1 1.0 0.2 2.8 0 0.4 0.7
2003 St Kilda 12 6.1 4.3 10.4 2.5 1.0 0.2 1.5 0 0.3 0.5 0.08
2002 St Kilda 1 3.0 1.0 4.0 3.0 0 0 2.0 0 0 0
Career 82 11.8 6.3 18.1 4.3 0.7 0.5 3.0 0 0.7 0.8 0.20

Stats wise,...Joey's last two years have been his best. Playing wise this is the case too.

X gone backwards

Year Team Games Kicks Handballs Disposals Marks Goals Behinds Tackles Hitouts Frees For Frees Ag. Brownlow
2008 St Kilda 7 8.9 5.0 13.9 4.1 0.7 0.6 2.7 0.1 1.0 0.9
2007 St Kilda 18 8.0 5.1 13.1 4.1 0.6 0.9 3.2 0.1 0.8 1.1 0.11
2006 St Kilda 13 7.4 5.5 12.9 4.5 0.2 0.2 1.8 0 0.4 0.5
2005 St Kilda 9 8.0 6.7 14.7 2.8 0.1 0.1 1.4 0 0.8 0.6
2004 St Kilda 19 6.0 4.7 10.8 3.2 0.4 0.3 2.8 0 0.7 0.6
2003 St Kilda 22 7.6 3.8 11.4 4.0 0.6 0.5 1.6 0 0.5 0.5 0.14
2002 St Kilda 16 5.4 3.1 8.5 3.2 0.6 0.7 0.9 0 0.3 0.4


Stats wise X has not gone backwards...and unfortunately has never had a year deserving of his draft ranking....

[plugger66]

MB..facts and accuracy have never been your strong point....

IMO you look at some of our players through "GT eyes" and see what was not there...

Joey gone backwards

Year Team Games Kicks Handballs Disposals Marks Goals Behinds Tackles Hitouts Frees For Frees Ag. Brownlow
2008 St Kilda 9 16.3 6.7 23.0 4.4 0.6 0.4 3.1 0 1.8 0.9
2007 St Kilda 21 16.1 7.8 23.9 5.1 0.5 0.6 3.6 0 1.0 0.8 0.43
2006 St Kilda 22 12.3 6.9 19.1 4.8 0.6 0.6 3.7 0 0.4 1.0 0.14
2005 St Kilda 8 9.8 5.4 15.1 4.4 0.8 0.4 2.4 0 0.8 0.6 0.17
2004 St Kilda 9 6.4 4.8 11.2 3.1 1.0 0.2 2.8 0 0.4 0.7
2003 St Kilda 12 6.1 4.3 10.4 2.5 1.0 0.2 1.5 0 0.3 0.5 0.08
2002 St Kilda 1 3.0 1.0 4.0 3.0 0 0 2.0 0 0 0
Career 82 11.8 6.3 18.1 4.3 0.7 0.5 3.0 0 0.7 0.8 0.20

Stats wise,...Joey's last two years have been his best. Playing wise this is the case too.

X gone backwards

Year Team Games Kicks Handballs Disposals Marks Goals Behinds Tackles Hitouts Frees For Frees Ag. Brownlow
2008 St Kilda 7 8.9 5.0 13.9 4.1 0.7 0.6 2.7 0.1 1.0 0.9
2007 St Kilda 18 8.0 5.1 13.1 4.1 0.6 0.9 3.2 0.1 0.8 1.1 0.11
2006 St Kilda 13 7.4 5.5 12.9 4.5 0.2 0.2 1.8 0 0.4 0.5
2005 St Kilda 9 8.0 6.7 14.7 2.8 0.1 0.1 1.4 0 0.8 0.6
2004 St Kilda 19 6.0 4.7 10.8 3.2 0.4 0.3 2.8 0 0.7 0.6
2003 St Kilda 22 7.6 3.8 11.4 4.0 0.6 0.5 1.6 0 0.5 0.5 0.14
2002 St Kilda 16 5.4 3.1 8.5 3.2 0.6 0.7 0.9 0 0.3 0.4


Stats wise X has not gone backwards...and unfortunately has never had a year deserving of his draft ranking....

Stats are crap. Do you honestly beleive Joey has been as good thuis year as last year. Wouldnt be in our top 6 in the B&F this year so far.

[saintsRrising]

I still feel sorry for Roo, I know he is playing injured, but the style they play is killing him, and others. He deseves better than to have the ball delivered so slowly as they game plan says you have to kick 10 kicks backwards before going foward.

Yes but what worked in 04 and 05 wont work nowdays because of the consistant flooding from almost every team.

Some would have it that the "streak" never ended. The streak finished largely because opposition coaches changed how they were playing against us. These coaches are not about to ease off on us now...

[meher baba]

Attention kaos theory and sRr

Stop trying to find excuses for lyon

He's been a failure and he's almost certainly gone: the timing will depend on the boards strategy for replacing him

do either of you guys seriously believe he isn't a dud? Or that, even if I will accept your argument that our list has developed flaws, that another coach or even gt wouldn't have done a better job than the current bunch?

And stop bringing up past failures on our list? How many failed recruits has brisbane had in recent years, or hawthorn, or even the cats (at least one, who is now playing for us)?

I'll.tell you one thing: I'd have far rather seen mcgough and ts40 go round today than cj or the vastly overrated schneider

[kaos theory]

Attention kaos theory and sRr

Stop trying to find excuses for lyon

Stop spewing out garbage, and actually read my post. Your comments are becoming more pathetic by the day.

[mischa]

Its utterly pitiful how the "Faction" on SS - now that they no longer dare to suggest that, as a coach, lyon is fit even to tie GT's shoelace, are trying to shift the blame for our current problems to an alleged failure to recruit adequately between 2004 to 2006 with our fabulous range of draft picks (#15 was the best of them as I recall).

You won't find any footy experts peddling this line of drivel anywhere, in fact the only place in the world you will ever read it is on good old saintsational!!

Ill let you into a secret guys. Poor recruiting won't explain the following

Dal gone backwards
Joey gone backwards
BJ no impact in 2008
Kosi gone backwards
Riewoldt gone backwards
Gram gone backwards
X gone backwards

Contribution of grant thomas to any of this: virtually zero

Agree with most of this. The lower you finish down the ladder-the better your draft choices! Why is that so hard to comprehend?. Clearly the recruitment of King, two Gardiners, Schneider, Dempster etc can hardly be blamed on GT That is topping up to win a 'premiership" it's embarrassing to have to point this out I do think Walls and his cohorts at 'The Age'/3AW will come out strongly defending RL and blame GT-that's where I disagree on the "expert" assessment.

[saintsRrising]

Stats are crap. Do you honestly beleive Joey has been as good thuis year as last year. Wouldnt be in our top 6 in the B&F this year so far.

I did not say that he had had a good year this year.

What I said was that he had not gone backwards compared to his time under GT.