In defence of Ross Lyon

[Teflon]

Unfortunately St Kilda has a history of lame supporters with no nerve.

Funniest thing I've ever read.

I must say, I do like it when people can laugh at themselves. Good for you Teflon.

I think the ones that think everyone else is taking them serious are funnier....

[Teflon]

I am sick to death of this Ross Lyon is the problem crap. I actually believe he is improving as a coach as most people do when they take up a new position. People have commented on our boring game style, in the past month or so apart from the Port Adelaide game which wasn't played in pristine conditions, we have played some pretty bold attacking footy.

First quarter against Geelong 4 goals 7
Second quarter against Essendon 7 goals
Third quarter against Richmond 5 goals in 10 minutes
First quarter against Collingwood 6 goals

The garbage that Trevor Grant yesterday was some of worst journalism I have seen for sometime. If Trevor was at the game on Friday night, he must have been too busy eating his lobster in the medallion club to have watched the first quarter. Either that or out relieving himself after one too many red wine's.

I bet that crap wouldn't have found it's way into the herald sun had we have converted our many opportunities we had to kick goals throughout the night.

The main problem I believe lies with our recruiting from 2004 - 2006. Here is a sample of some of the useless talent we picked up in that period.

Allan Murray, Mark McGough, Nick Stone, Fergus Watts, Cathal Corr, Dylan Pfitzner, Cain Ackland, Phillip Raymond, Justin Sweeney. There is many more that right now I can't remember off the top of my head.

Not only that we picked up Aaron Fiora who lets face it isnt the toughest tool in the shed for Heath Black. That I'll concede we had no choice.
We delisted Brent Guerra which was staggering even if he didnt get along with the coach.

Player's we have recently lost through retirement, not all of them were guns but were all very serviceable players for the St.Kilda football club.
Aussie Jones, Stephen Powell, Aaron Hamill, Brett Voss, Justin Peckett, Luke Penny. Couple that with the slow decline of big Fraser and it is pretty easy to see why we are not the great team we once were.

I believe we will be sitting 5 wins and 5 losses after round 10. Not too disimilar to what we were in 2005-2006. I hardly would call that sack the coach sort of stuff.

All I'd like to say is I can't wait for the day to see the "We never said Ross is a bad coach" people jumping on the bandwagon in the next few years much the same as what is currently happening at Hawthorn. Believe me it will happen!

Great post.

I look forward to Jeffdumb, Dodge, Babbelots and all the other whingers trotting out their usual pathetic drivel of "show me 1 thread where.......blah blah blah..."

The club will turn give it time.

[Baldock Rules]

A win against the odds is desperately needed.

Amen to that.This week could turn things around!!

[JeffDunne]

I look forward to Jeffdumb, Dodge, Babbelots and all the other whingers trotting out their usual pathetic drivel of "show me 1 thread where.......blah blah blah..."

You mean someone calling you out on your bullsh!t fabrications?

Meh . . . why would we bother it would be a fulltime job. I presume too that's the only reason mod's don't cleanup the effluent you post here.

BTW, did you miss my "positive" article thread just for you Teffers?

http://www.saintsational.com/forum/view ... hp?t=42924

Pity, nobody seems to care that Ross can still find reason to smile and justification for his piss poor performance.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Player's we have recently lost through retirement, not all of them were guns but were all very serviceable players for the St.Kilda football club.
Aussie Jones, Stephen Powell, Aaron Hamill, Brett Voss, Justin Peckett, Luke Penny. Couple that with the slow decline of big Fraser and it is pretty easy to see why we are not the great team we once were.

Much seems to be made at of the decline of the Saints list demise... but I believe that seriously lets the current crop off the hook.

Aussie Jones - Clearly not replacable, but there's not one of our running back's who is playing up to their own capability, so letting the list off the hook for losing because they're not playing up to Aussie's is ridiculous... we should also recall the drop in form in '05 due to his back that led to his early retirement.

Aaron Hamill - Very tough player to replace, however, if the guys who needed him there to babysit them as 18,19, and 20 year olds can't do it themselves now they're in their mid 20s, then they need to harden up fast.

Luke Penny - Was good and should only have gotten better, and his retirement hurt a bunch... but the rise fo Sam Fisher should have offset this.

Heath Black - Like with Jones, nobody on the wing is using the ball as they're capable, which is what Black did so well. Over in Freo Black isn't using it the way he did with the Saints either.

And honestly, if we're blaming the loss of Brett Voss (L Fisher can do everything Vossy did), Powell (was a tagger here) and Thomo (was always a big Thomo fan, but I'd say we'd be little better off with him in the lineup even in 2004 form than Armitage).

Frankly, the only one that the Saints can point to as being a total hole in the lineup is Hammil. While they've never adequately replaced in form Jones (good luck to us) or Black, I think that speaks more to underperformance than recruiting (though obviously, good recruiting could have made the issue not exist), as the contributions of both are more '04 than through '05 and '06. We've got players on the park now that we couldn't get/keep on the park then, and still the results turn downward.

Recruiting's contributed, but it's not the all encompassing cause.

[rodgerfox]

Player's we have recently lost through retirement, not all of them were guns but were all very serviceable players for the St.Kilda football club.
Aussie Jones, Stephen Powell, Aaron Hamill, Brett Voss, Justin Peckett, Luke Penny. Couple that with the slow decline of big Fraser and it is pretty easy to see why we are not the great team we once were.

Much seems to be made at of the decline of the Saints list demise... but I believe that seriously lets the current crop off the hook.

Aussie Jones - Clearly not replacable, but there's not one of our running back's who is playing up to their own capability, so letting the list off the hook for losing because they're not playing up to Aussie's is ridiculous... we should also recall the drop in form in '05 due to his back that led to his early retirement.

Aaron Hamill - Very tough player to replace, however, if the guys who needed him there to babysit them as 18,19, and 20 year olds can't do it themselves now they're in their mid 20s, then they need to harden up fast.

Luke Penny - Was good and should only have gotten better, and his retirement hurt a bunch... but the rise fo Sam Fisher should have offset this.

Heath Black - Like with Jones, nobody on the wing is using the ball as they're capable, which is what Black did so well. Over in Freo Black isn't using it the way he did with the Saints either.

Didn't we sack a coach because of our unprecedented slide from 14 wins in 2005 to 14 wins in 2006?

But based on what I've read, the loss of Aussie and Penny is attributed to why Lyon's getting a rough deal?


They left post 2005. We played 2006 with only one pre-season to recover the loss of our FB and our best running back and most highly skilled player.

Yet only slid on %, not games won.

We also lost Heath Black post 2005 and went into 06 without him.


Is the argument about the loss of players supposed to pot Lyon, or support him?

I mean, the coach we sacked lost these players and still notched up 14 wins.

[saintsRrising]

Didn't we sack a coach because of our unprecedented slide from 14 wins in 2005 to 14 wins in 2006?

Well not according to this poster...who posted very recently on this....

So why was he sacked Rodge?

How about actually saying EXACTLY what you believe the reason was ? Then we can actually discuss it.

You do have a reason I trust?

The reasons were personal. Not professional.

Butterss didn't like Thomas. And Thomas didn't like Butterss - I believe this part actually happened first. For reasons that I will not post on a forum. Mainly because I don't for a fact, as I heard it second hand. And the reasons I were given are quite controversial.

.

So according the view from earlier-Rodge....Lyon should be safe as long as he has no personal issues with Westaway.

[rodgerfox]

Didn't we sack a coach because of our unprecedented slide from 14 wins in 2005 to 14 wins in 2006?

Well not according to this poster...who posted very recently on this....

So why was he sacked Rodge?

How about actually saying EXACTLY what you believe the reason was ? Then we can actually discuss it.

You do have a reason I trust?

The reasons were personal. Not professional.

Butterss didn't like Thomas. And Thomas didn't like Butterss - I believe this part actually happened first. For reasons that I will not post on a forum. Mainly because I don't for a fact, as I heard it second hand. And the reasons I were given are quite controversial.

.

So according the view from earlier-Rodge....Lyon should be safe as long as he has no personal issues with Westaway.

Huh?

What does Westaway have to do with it??

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Didn't we sack a coach because of our unprecedented slide from 14 wins in 2005 to 14 wins in 2006?

But based on what I've read, the loss of Aussie and Penny is attributed to why Lyon's getting a rough deal?


They left post 2005. We played 2006 with only one pre-season to recover the loss of our FB and our best running back and most highly skilled player.

Yet only slid on %, not games won.

We also lost Heath Black post 2005 and went into 06 without him.


Is the argument about the loss of players supposed to pot Lyon, or support him?

I mean, the coach we sacked lost these players and still notched up 14 wins.

We lost Black after 2004, he was at Freo for the '05 season.
We lost Aussie after '05, but he was nowhere near in '05 where he'd been in '04.
Luke Penny managed only 9 games through '05, and the play of Hudghton and Maguire together over that period meant we didn't notice as it also meant Sam Fisher got 21 games under his belt which might ahve been a tough ask had all 3 been continually healthy.
We had Hamill for 11 H&A games and 1 final in '05.

That we didn't rely on those players as much in '05 or at all in '06 doesn't change the fact that they're huge losses to cover. It certainly doesn't mean that we would obviously be better off if Hamill and Penny's knees hadn't given way, Jones' back hadn't given up and Black's lady hadn't gotten homesick. It does mean that to point the finger at recruiters for not replacing those players for '07 and '08 can only tell part of the story, one must ask if anything else happened prior to the '07 season that might lead to the current position... and the regular debate continues.

Does it support or pot Lyon? I don't care... but the 2 likely answers points to a fundamental divide between those who look at '06 and see a loss to Melbourne in the QF, and those who look at '06 and see the 14 wins... was the sum of the '06 season a loss of % under trying circumstances (doesn't support Lyon, bad recruitment hasn't caused the current situation), or a slip from top 4 side to 8th place also ran (supports Lyon, bad recruitment made the current position inevitable).

[rodgerfox]

Didn't we sack a coach because of our unprecedented slide from 14 wins in 2005 to 14 wins in 2006?

But based on what I've read, the loss of Aussie and Penny is attributed to why Lyon's getting a rough deal?


They left post 2005. We played 2006 with only one pre-season to recover the loss of our FB and our best running back and most highly skilled player.

Yet only slid on %, not games won.

We also lost Heath Black post 2005 and went into 06 without him.


Is the argument about the loss of players supposed to pot Lyon, or support him?

I mean, the coach we sacked lost these players and still notched up 14 wins.

We lost Black after 2004, he was at Freo for the '05 season.
We lost Aussie after '05, but he was nowhere near in '05 where he'd been in '04.
Luke Penny managed only 9 games through '05, and the play of Hudghton and Maguire together over that period meant we didn't notice as it also meant Sam Fisher got 21 games under his belt which might ahve been a tough ask had all 3 been continually healthy.
We had Hamill for 11 H&A games and 1 final in '05.

That we didn't rely on those players as much in '05 or at all in '06 doesn't change the fact that they're huge losses to cover. It certainly doesn't mean that we would obviously be better off if Hamill and Penny's knees hadn't given way, Jones' back hadn't given up and Black's lady hadn't gotten homesick. It does mean that to point the finger at recruiters for not replacing those players for '07 and '08 can only tell part of the story, one must ask if anything else happened prior to the '07 season that might lead to the current position... and the regular debate continues.

Does it support or pot Lyon? I don't care... but the 2 likely answers points to a fundamental divide between those who look at '06 and see a loss to Melbourne in the QF, and those who look at '06 and see the 14 wins... was the sum of the '06 season a loss of % under trying circumstances (doesn't support Lyon, bad recruitment hasn't caused the current situation), or a slip from top 4 side to 8th place also ran (supports Lyon, bad recruitment made the current position inevitable).

I just find it curious that the loss of these players is attirbuted in some cases as an excuse for Lyon's disappointing record with our group.

Yet not taken into account when assessing reasons for our massive slide from 14 wins in 05 to 14 wins in 06.

Just interesting, that's all.

[Teflon]

I look forward to Jeffdumb, Dodge, Babbelots and all the other whingers trotting out their usual pathetic drivel of "show me 1 thread where.......blah blah blah..."

You mean someone calling you out on your bullsh!t fabrications?

Meh . . . why would we bother it would be a fulltime job. I presume too that's the only reason mod's don't cleanup the effluent you post here.

BTW, did you miss my "positive" article thread just for you Teffers?

http://www.saintsational.com/forum/view ... hp?t=42924

Pity, nobody seems to care that Ross can still find reason to smile and justification for his piss poor performance.

\

Why would you bother yet still you do?

You cant help yourself Jeffery...its nice having a "pet jeff"...

[JeffDunne]

Why do I bother?

Pretty obvious I would have thought - I like provoking the mentally deranged.

[Teflon]

Why do I bother?

Pretty obvious I would have thought - I like provoking the mentally deranged.

Geez...there a line or 3 right there Jeff...your wide open....

But now your getting creepy...stand down old man......its better for your health to occasionally admit your a bit of a dill.

[JeffDunne]

You're wide open . . .

You're getting creepy . . .

Occasionally admit you're a bit of a dill . . .



Is it really THAT hard to work out?

[Teflon]

You're wide open . . .

You're getting creepy . . .

Occasionally admit you're a bit of a dill . . .



Is it really THAT hard to work out?

well not really......if you're struggling with some personal frustration issue perhaps 'coming out' and talking to us all about it Jeff could be good for you...then it wouldnt be hard to work out at all.....suddenly all those whingeing, whining, snivelling bitchy posts of yours start to make a whole lotta sense....

[JeffDunne]

[Teflon]

I think its important...aspart of your 'coming out' process that you include a few personal snaps.....shows maturity...and ownership.

Good for you Jeffery.

You go girl!

[JeffDunne]

You're not only boring, you're predictably boring.

[Teflon]

You're not only boring, you're predictably boring.

Im sorry Jeff. Am I bugging you?...didnt mean to "bug ya".....

She looks gorgeous. I know you'll both be very happy.

All the best

Teffers.

[Hard at it]

Didn't we sack a coach because of our unprecedented slide from 14 wins in 2005 to 14 wins in 2006?

Well not according to this poster...who posted very recently on this....

So why was he sacked Rodge?

How about actually saying EXACTLY what you believe the reason was ? Then we can actually discuss it.

You do have a reason I trust?

The reasons were personal. Not professional.

Butterss didn't like Thomas. And Thomas didn't like Butterss - I believe this part actually happened first. For reasons that I will not post on a forum. Mainly because I don't for a fact, as I heard it second hand. And the reasons I were given are quite controversial.

.

So according the view from earlier-Rodge....Lyon should be safe as long as he has no personal issues with Westaway.

Rodgerfox always getting caught out. You actually need to start remembering what you say because you are constantly looking foolish.

[Teflon]

Didn't we sack a coach because of our unprecedented slide from 14 wins in 2005 to 14 wins in 2006?

Well not according to this poster...who posted very recently on this....

So why was he sacked Rodge?

How about actually saying EXACTLY what you believe the reason was ? Then we can actually discuss it.

You do have a reason I trust?

The reasons were personal. Not professional.

Butterss didn't like Thomas. And Thomas didn't like Butterss - I believe this part actually happened first. For reasons that I will not post on a forum. Mainly because I don't for a fact, as I heard it second hand. And the reasons I were given are quite controversial.

.

So according the view from earlier-Rodge....Lyon should be safe as long as he has no personal issues with Westaway.

Rodgerfox always getting caught out. You actually need to start remembering what you say because you are constantly looking foolish.

LMFAO.

Caught again hey Dodg?

Not only do you make it up as you go but you forget what you say you silly git....

"the skys falling" Dodg.....

you stupid little man....