the case for Raph

[Dan Warna]

kids need time

If he goes he goes, but he has talent, not confidence atm

[Ghost Like]

Needs time, whether that be at Casey or on the wing in the Seniors I'll trust Lyon's judgement.

Will be quite a few delistings at years end but I personally hope Raph is not one of them. Suffering from the early BJ syndrome both from supporters and the decision making fairy.

[Iceman234]

edited - deleted

[congorozides]

it seems like each week we get posters coming on here bemoaning the performance of Raph clarke, only to be inevitably howled down by 'true sainters' for being disloyal or, god forbid, a troll.

I am no bandwagoner and I don't have whipping boys. I have wanted Raph to be good from the day he arrived at the club and have given him the benefit of the doubt for a long time. Its fair to say my expectations/hopes are a very long way from being met.

So, can someone, preferably one of the people who abuse other posters people for bagging raph (joffaboy I'm looking at you), please outline the case for Raph Clarke. Can you please provide some reasoning for why Raph should be getting a game in an AFL side. Particularly when we have players like Ferguson, Mini, Geary, and allen pushing for a spot.

so, please, the case for raph:



NB: being tall is not a reason for an afl spot. also, yes he played a good game in defence in the 2005 final against adelaide at aami but that was three years ago and is not a reason.

great post elvis.
great to see you back on the site.

[congorozides]

Raph make any mistakes tonight? no he didn't

Did he get much ball? no he didn't

Did he take a great mark going back into a Rocca Max contest? yes he did

Did he show some good signs? yes he did

Do we need to persist with Raph? yes we do

would raph get a game at the hawks or cats right now? no he wouldnt.

if saints are serious about winning a premiership they cant tolerate guys like raph. i know its harsh. but this is serious professional footy. its cut throat. its not a social suburban league. he's had way too many chances. hes had time in the system. access to fitness coaching dieticians psychiatrists. you name it. and hes still no good.

id be surprised if another team picked him up? maybe the dockers.

[congorozides]

There is no place in AFL teams now for laconic players who have no presence, can't kick well, can't mark and don't have any spoiling technique.
End of story.
NEXT!
Essendon would probably have him. At this stage I would take a 2nd rounder.
He has had chronic back troubles but it is his mental state I worry more about...and mine too when I watch him play.
I don't care if Allen or the Fergberger are tried and even fail, we will never win a premiership with him in the team unless there is some drastic change in his application.

agree with this. good post. took the words from my brain.
bombers or dockers would probably have him

[perfectionist]

Needs time, but also needs to be taught how to rectify faults and more importantly, needs to have the desire to rectify those faults. He has a natural gift, it seems to me, but that's less than half the story. I really hope he sticks with it. He has the natural skills, unlike some others, so he is worth persevering with.

[congorozides]

Needs time, whether that be at Casey or on the wing in the Seniors I'll trust Lyon's judgement.

Will be quite a few delistings at years end but I personally hope Raph is not one of them. Suffering from the early BJ syndrome both from supporters and the decision making fairy.

except hes the same age or older than bj and bj came good after 2-3 years.

how much time? hes not even that talented. hes slow, physically weak and uncompetitive.

[Ghost Like]

would raph get a game at the hawks or cats right now? no he wouldnt.

The problem with that argument CG is that you also need to apply that to the rest of our list. Would not be too many you would answer 'Yes' to.

It seems to be the consensus here that we just delist him as he has no trade value. Personally I think that would be a waste and do not believe he's in the bottom 6 on our list even including retirements. I cannot understand wasting what we've invested in him, at least he's shown signs unlike Brooks. (Please no one talk about that Brisbane game)

[SaintDippa]

Raph would not get a game at Melbourne.

Needs to spend the remainder of the year at Casey learning the craft. Looks slow, decision making is poor, kicking ......, lacks confidence marking ..... .

Not sure if he is not 100% or if the injuries have wrecked his body but ........... geeze currently not AFL standard.

[saintsrokk]

Raph was not our worst against the Pies. I dont se any calls to get rid of Dempster, Schneider etc. There is tremendous bias against this young man every week on this site.
________
Yamaha Td2 Specifications

[SaintDippa]

Dempster/Schneider? At least they display some skills. Dempster wasnot that bad last night and Schneider needs to play in the forward 50. Raph cops it EVERY week because his performances are continually not up to scratch.

[The_Dud]

every other of the 21 players in the team have actually shown something at sometime, unlike Raph

thats why he cops it every week, even if hes not the actual worst on ground

how many chances is he gonna get? hasn't improved in 4 years (actually, probably gotten worse)

time to try someone else, like Allen or Geary or someone, who knows, one of them might grab the opportunity with both hands

[QuestionOfAccuracy]

Seems like a nice person, but he's not up to it.

Let's stop beating around the bush here and playing the loyalty card. He's not up to AFL level - you just can't put it any other way.

Well said.

I thought he tried hard on friday night but some players are just not good enough, thats a fact. He's had numerous oppurtunities now in most positions on the ground. Time to give some other players (such as - ferguson, geary, etc) some oppurtunities instead of Raph.

[The Peanut]

I didn't see Raph live this week but going from his stats he is sitting on dangerous ground to keep his spot in the current climate. I was very angry with many fellow posters and radio callers last week though, as his output of 17 possessions with arguably two bad mistakes, possibly only one, whilst doing a hard job for the team to cover us for injuries was pretty good and I would think he should have had some very positive responses.

If 'supporters' think that constant negative threads and radio calls regarding specific players doesn't effect their confidence they come from a different planet to me. In fact, the whole team generally appears to be lacking confidence at the moment and although it is their job to dig themselves out of this, confidence in their abilities from the team's 'supporters' would be much more beneficial to the teams success.

General constructive critisism and discussion in one thing but ...

[iwantmeseats]

Im not a fan of raph, and I agree he has had more than enough chances. BUT, he is also the victim in a team that is playing pathetic, boring insipid football, which of course is not solely his fault.

This is the worst football team I have seen going round for a long time, given the talent actually out on the ground. Schoolboy stuff from paid professionals, weak.

[Solar]

I didn't see Raph live this week but going from his stats he is sitting on dangerous ground to keep his spot in the current climate. I was very angry with many fellow posters and radio callers last week though, as his output of 17 possessions with arguably two bad mistakes, possibly only one, whilst doing a hard job for the team to cover us for injuries was pretty good and I would think he should have had some very positive responses.

If 'supporters' think that constant negative threads and radio calls regarding specific players doesn't effect their confidence they come from a different planet to me. In fact, the whole team generally appears to be lacking confidence at the moment and although it is their job to dig themselves out of this, confidence in their abilities from the team's 'supporters' would be much more beneficial to the teams success.

General constructive critisism and discussion in one thing but ...

fantastic post....

I am finding that when I'm at the game there are heaps of supporters who don't "support" the team, only blurt out "raph you're crap" or "don't kick to it to blake"... seriously I have to wonder why they bother to turn up???
I'm all for argueing over selection and merits of game plans and styles. But once the game starts the members really need to get behind the 22.

[jonesy]

I am finding that when I'm at the game there are heaps of supporters who don't "support" the team, only blurt out "raph you're crap" or "don't kick to it to blake"... seriously I have to wonder why they bother to turn up???
.

A few hundred thousand reasons a year is a pretty good reason to turn up each week.

[starsign]

Posted: Sun 18 May 2008 12:25pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I didn't see Raph live this week but going from his stats he is sitting on dangerous ground to keep his spot in the current climate. I was very angry with many fellow posters and radio callers last week though, as his output of 17 possessions with arguably two bad mistakes, possibly only one, whilst doing a hard job for the team to cover us for injuries was pretty good and I would think he should have had some very positive responses.

If 'supporters' think that constant negative threads and radio calls regarding specific players doesn't effect their confidence they come from a different planet to me. In fact, the whole team generally appears to be lacking confidence at the moment and although it is their job to dig themselves out of this, confidence in their abilities from the team's 'supporters' would be much more beneficial to the teams success.

General constructive critisism and discussion in one thing but

I probably come from a distant doughnut too, but just as well you added the last sentence...
General constructive critisism and discussion in one thing but.....

It's incomplete and I hope you were thinking of adding in fairness, that there has also been a smattering of posters endeavouring to offer constuctive criticism in the long running Raph debate
I think perhaps along with coaching , and for that matter anyone who earns their living in areas subject to intense scrutiny by intrested sectors of the public ( politicians, the media etc) have to accept all forms of criticism within reason and the bounds of decency, comes with the territory Peanut!

[ThomasR]

I still think Raph can make it. Give him time and confidence.

He is a much, much, much better player than Fiora could ever dream to be.

[congorozides]

I still think Raph can make it. Give him time and confidence.

He is a much, much, much better player than Fiora could ever dream to be.

i know hope springs eternal. but ill be dead before the saints wina flag if we keep uing the mantra "give them more time"

[killa_gram]

At least two of the directors of the club think Raph should not play with us again and think that we will trade or delist him at seasons end.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

The case for Raph is that he's a very naturally talented footballer. From a talent perspective, his only issue is that he's incredibly one sided. In the last 12 months, his ability to read the play in defense has improved as he's gotten more games. He's fairly strong, and much faster than he generally appears. Much as people here hate the word, he gets played on potential, he's too good for the VFL, but has yet to really command a position at AFL level.

While Friday night wasn't the shining example of him showing that he's actually a forward as many have suggested, I think rather than showing up Raph, that it showed up the difference between dominating a forward line at VFL and AFL level. He didn't read the play well, led to the wrong spots, didn't get the rbeak necessary on his defender when he did make himself a target... and surprise surprise, he couldn't command the ball. He got roundly beaten in his first go as a forward at AFL level in a long, long time.

He was a total non factor on Friday night. The touches he got occurred once he moved into the back half of the ground, and were neither exciting nor a liability... but the trouble at that stage of the game was our forward structure simply didn't work, and with him not there, it's tough to blame him for that. I'd hope that with Reiwoldt still out, he'll get another shot in the forward line next week.

[saint66au]

At least two of the directors of the club think Raph should not play with us again and think that we will trade or delist him at seasons end.

...and said directors gave you permission to blab about it on a public forum did they?????

[killa_gram]

At least two of the directors of the club think Raph should not play with us again and think that we will trade or delist him at seasons end.

...and said directors gave you permission to blab about it on a public forum did they?????

No one tells me what to do. Maybe said directors shouldn't talk so loudly at club functions. Why the hell would I need their permission???? It is a public forum and they expressed their opinions in a public space. Get over yourself.