Issues with structure

[BigMart]

1) Back line pace and skill.....who breaks lines and hits targets...ala Mcleod, Shaw, P.Burgoyne, Wojinski, Gilbee etc....

Gram - Not playing well
Raph not playing well
Sam playing KP

2) Mids that carry the ball....and hit targets....Foley, Ablett, Lewis, Boomer, S.Burgoyne, Judd, Stevens, Pendlebury, Cooney

Joey & Dal not at their best......Harves getting on.....Fiora out of form......x.clarke not fit enough

3) Fwd line mobility and pressure....that hurts on the scoreboard....

Gehrig/Kosi/Reiwoldt combination sounds good in theory but does not work.....all give little or NO fwd line pressure (milne/schnieder included) two are are slow when the ball hits the deck....
Gardner hurts very little on the scoreboard....

4) mids do not enough kick goals...

5) too negative.....L.Fisher, Baker, Dempster, Birss, Jones, Blake all used primarily as stoppers....they need to free up and win more footy

We need two runners down back
Gram and ???????
Two key defenders
Max and Sam
A Midsize defender
(Goddard/Raph/Ferg/Gwilt)

Midfield
We need three runners through the midfield (and two spare)
Joey, Dal and ??????? plus Harvey and ???????
Two inside mids (one spare)
Hayes and Ball (armo)
Two Ruckman
Gardner/King/Kosi
Two Run with only
Fish/Birss/Blake/Bakes/dempster

Fwd line
Two key fwds (one mobile)
Reiwoldt and (Kosi/Gehrig)
a medium size fwd
Gardiner/Raph/Ferg
a small fwd
(Milne/schneider)
a resting mid
Ball/Harves/X/Armo

[LENNY LEADS THE WAY]

We do well enough with our run from the backline.

I like Goddard and Fisher streaming out of defense they hit targetts more often than not

[True Blue Sainter]

Good post - I think that our main deficiency is our run and carry in the midfield. This stems from not only a lack of general footspeed, but as you mention Marto, the continued selection of one or two too many run-with players (Blake, Birss, Dempster, Fish etc.). Rather see a couple of games into Geary and Steven who can run the lines and give off a bit of raw enthusiasm and youthful energy.

P.S. Riewoldt not Reiwoldt....

[saintsRrising]

Yes...I pretty much agree and have been pushing similar structures for a little bit now...

[Devilhead]

If Kosi does well at CHF while Roo is out (as he has done before) then I think when Roo comes back he should be let loose and be given the go ahead to run anywhere and everywhere (ala Richo at the moment)

Invariably the majority of opposition teams would struggle to find a tag with a similar motor and similar size to keep with up him or/and out mark him - he could cause havoc running down back taking marks and allowing a few of our backmen to generate run and then a few minutes later he could turn up in the forward line to take a grab and kick a goal - opposition teams would have nightmares trying to cover him

Play him as a 5th mid (not a roaming CHF) and he may just well cut teams apart - at the moment his game style too obvious as is our own - Roo is our wildcard due to the combination of his size and motor - we need to use this to our advantage just as Richmond are using Richo

He has not really been used in this role and I think it could be well worth a try

[Teflon]

If Kosi does well at CHF while Roo is out (as he has done before) then I think when Roo comes back he should be let loose and be given the go ahead to run anywhere and everywhere (ala Richo at the moment)

Invariably the majority of opposition teams would struggle to find a tag with a similar motor and similar size to keep with up him or/and out mark him - he could cause havoc running down back taking marks and allowing a few of our backmen to generate run and then a few minutes later he could turn up in the forward line to take a grab and kick a goal - opposition teams would have nightmares trying to cover him

Play him as a 5th mid (not a roaming CHF) and he may just well cut teams apart - at the moment his game style too obvious as is our own - Roo is our wildcard due to the combination of his size and motor - we need to use this to our advantage just as Richmond are using Richo

He has not really been used in this role and I think it could be well worth a try

I agree - regardless of what Kosi does IMHO Riewoldt is just to easy to stop and triple team up fwd making him innefective. We HAVE to find multiple, less predictable avenues to goal. By allowing Riewoldt to float fwd or into defence as required would make him incredibly hard to match up on.

[bigcarl]

If Kosi does well at CHF while Roo is out (as he has done before) then I think when Roo comes back he should be let loose and be given the go ahead to run anywhere and everywhere (ala Richo at the moment)

Invariably the majority of opposition teams would struggle to find a tag with a similar motor and similar size to keep with up him or/and out mark him - he could cause havoc running down back taking marks and allowing a few of our backmen to generate run and then a few minutes later he could turn up in the forward line to take a grab and kick a goal - opposition teams would have nightmares trying to cover him

Play him as a 5th mid (not a roaming CHF) and he may just well cut teams apart - at the moment his game style too obvious as is our own - Roo is our wildcard due to the combination of his size and motor - we need to use this to our advantage just as Richmond are using Richo

He has not really been used in this role and I think it could be well worth a try

I agree - regardless of what Kosi does IMHO Riewoldt is just to easy to stop and triple team up fwd making him innefective. We HAVE to find multiple, less predictable avenues to goal. By allowing Riewoldt to float fwd or into defence as required would make him incredibly hard to match up on.

agree. this has been a problem since hamill fell over. he'd be a much more dangerous proposition around the ground rather than stagnating at chf waiting to be triple teamed.

like richo, it probably wouldn't even effect his output of goals.

[saintsRrising]

GTrain is no longer in his prime...and will be exploited by the good full backs that good teams have.

Allen is not yet ready....

The thing is if Roo is triple teamed..that what we need to do is to exploit other options.....

....such as Charlie presenting an unmarked option like he did twice in our last game..

....or Milney running free to present which he does well...


Now yes Roo could play wing...and often hasa stint there to break things up.

But he is a better key forward than a wingman.


... or King or Gardi drifting forward...

... or maybe Ferg in the pocket


.....or by the mids taking more shots on goal.

[Wollongong_saint]

Couldn't agree more about Riewoldt - what is the point in playing him in a key forward position when he gets double/triple teamed and then when he does mark it he misses the shot anyway? We're not making the most of the best player on the ground. I don't think he is perfectly suited to the "Richo Role" but hey, it will be better than how things have been recently.

Mix things up Ross! Roo is most exciting when he is in places you don't expect him to be, when there is a bit of unpredictablity. This type of role should also give his general confidence a much-needed boost.

[bigcarl]

The thing is if Roo is triple teamed..that what we need to do is to exploit other options ... such as Charlie presenting an unmarked option like he did twice in our last game.

yeah, but we don't or haven't. it is too deeply implanted in the psyche of this team to kick it to him under all circumstances and it makes us predictable going forward and easily countered.

we need MUCH more from our other forwards.

[saintsRrising]

So with Roo...

He is currently out with a knee injury......and has tendonitis in the other knee....but yet when he returns he should be played as a midfielder where he will have to run all day thus loading his knees fully????

In addition with his knee injuries I would imagine that his training over the next 3/4 weeks will be limited and his fitness will decline....and that when he comes back he will aerobically not be at his best and will need some matches to recover fitness. He is too gooda player to be brought back via Casey to build match fitness and will be plunged straight back in the seniors.

I would put him at FF.....and not expect him to play as a midfielder.

[bigcarl]

So with Roo...

He is currently out with a knee injury......and has tedonitis in the other knee....but yet when he returns he should be played as a midfielder where he will have to run all day thus loading his knees fully????

if he's on the ground one would presume he is fit and should be able to run.

to my mind he is more likely to be re-injured by being tunnelled in a forward marking contest or sandwiched between two of his three opponents.

so playing him on the wing would be a preventative measure

[saintsRrising]

if he's on the ground one would presume he is fit and should be able to run.

Why?????

There is a huge difference with being fit enough to play (and in being fit enough to play better than another option from our reserves) and in being fully fit.

If Roo cannot do his normal aerobic training...and with his knee injury that would be doubtful he will lose aerobic fitness after being out for a month.



With his tendonitis...my understanding is that this was expected to last all year and that he was just going to have to play with it....with his condition being managed as best as possible (which to me means don't expect him to run as much as he has in some years). The upside is that resting this knee fora month may help it.


Gardi when he came back against the tigers lacked fitness as his injury reduced his aerbic traing. This meant that despite Simmonds dominationg that his TOG had to be limited. Two weeks on I would expect Gardi to be fitter than he was for the Tigers game.

[bigcarl]

if he's on the ground one would presume he is fit and should be able to run.

Why?????

There is a huge difference with being fit enough to play (and in being fit enough to play better than another option from our reserves) and in being fully fit.

If Roo cannot do his normal aerobic training...and with his knee injury that would be doubtful he will lose aerobic fitness after being out for a month.



With his tendonitis...my understanding is that this was expected to last all year and that he was just going to have to play with it....with his condition being managed as best as possible (which to me means don't expect him to run as much as he has in some years). The upside is that resting this knee fora month may help it.


Gardi when he came back against the tigers lacked fitness as his injury reduced his aerbic traing. This meant that despite Simmonds dominationg that his TOG had to be limited. Two weeks on I would expect Gardi to be fitter than he was for the Tigers game.

if he's not fit should he be out there at all?

[saintsRrising]

Before you would consider playing Roo outside of the forward line on a permanent basis you would want two other key forwards to be playing well.


At present there is not even one other key forward playing well on a consistent basis.


GTrain has not been good.
Kosi has had good quarters, but not good games
Allen is yet to be tried in a KPP in the forward line.


With Richo....it should not be forgotten that he was not playing well early this year as a key forward early on and Wallace probably moved him to try and get more out of him...which has worked. Richo has also tended for most of his career to be played asa flanker rtaher than as the KPP.

[bigcarl]

Before you would consider playing Roo outside of the forward line on a permanent basis you would want two other key forwards to be playing well.


At present there is not even one other key forward playing well ona consiteant basis.


GTrain has not been good.
Kosi has had good quarters, but not good games
Allen is yet to be tried in a KPP in the forward line.

i think riewoldt would contribute at least as many goals playing from the wing. Maybe more if richo's form is any sort of a guide.

would really free him up and he'd be amazed at what it feels like to have the shackles off for a while.

the others would only benefit from being more of a focal point, imo.

if fraser can't turn it around then i'd be looking at kosi deep and allen across half forward.

it's not as if what we've been doing has been a spectacular success. sure, we're 4-3 but you'd expect at least that

[saintsRrising]

i think riewoldt would contribute at least as many goals playing from the wing. Maybe more if richo's form is any sort of a guide.
.

Why is another player having a red hot period a guide to another player?

A part of Richo's current good form is having team-mates who can at least pass it to his advantage...rather than kicking it over his head...at his toes etc.

Richo has always been a vergy good player.....but the Tigers are now better able to exploit his talents.

[bigcarl]

Why is another player having a red hot period a guide to another player?

they are similar types. both have big engines, are tall and good aerially.

their teams have suffered from being over-reliant on them.

both are wonderful players but i believe that anything richo can do roo can do better.

having said all of that i think our problems go deeper than structure.

certain intangeables are missing from our teams of a couple of years ago, including self-belief, confidence and daring.

i don't know how you get that back.

i think it takes some real leadership from your best players and adventure and daring from the coaches and selectors as well.