Where is our Wonaeamirri??

[saintspremiers]

It really hit home how slow we are when my Tigers mate at the footy said to me "Even your indigenous players are slow!"

Well, he's half right - X could be quicker - Raph is OK pace wise but my point is since Winmar, we haven't excelled in the pacey, skillfull indigenous player department.

Most other sides seem to be doing it better than us.....is it due to lack of recruiting resources in the past to source good Aboriginal players from the NT, north QLD, WA etc?

Don't know the exact answer, but my thoughts are the rookie list is ideal for developing Aboriginal talent.

Whilst we have X and Raph at the club, it should give any new indigenous footballers to our club plenty of extra support that they may need.

[Mr Magic]

I keep hearing on here that we had 'no recruiting resources' (or similar type ststements) and I wonder if that is actually true or just another furphy that has become truth?

Does anybody actually know this to be true, and what exactly does that mean?

I know tha JB was employed full-time and had a whole department at Moorabbin. I know he had a whole network of 'spotters' all over Victoria who were part-time/volunteers. Given that we seemed to draft players from every state and territory it would seem that we must have had some sort of 'recruiting network' in those states.

[starsign]

a Saint "Patrick" could be a handy spotter too!

[spert]

Flash-in-the-pan.. dont' worry, our slow old team are in the eight and won again last week.

[The Peanut]

It really hit home how slow we are when my Tigers mate at the footy said to me "Even your indigenous players are slow!"

Well, he's half right - X could be quicker - Raph is OK pace wise but my point is since Winmar, we haven't excelled in the pacey, skillfull indigenous player department.

Most other sides seem to be doing it better than us.....is it due to lack of recruiting resources in the past to source good Aboriginal players from the NT, north QLD, WA etc?

Don't know the exact answer, but my thoughts are the rookie list is ideal for developing Aboriginal talent.

Whilst we have X and Raph at the club, it should give any new indigenous footballers to our club plenty of extra support that they may need.

I think I can see where you are coming from and indeed with the Clarke brothers being such rocks when it comes to carrying out their lives in a Melbourne environement we are well placed to put the necessary support systems in place to recruit indigenous players. Michael Long was one I know who supported X in his early days.

We cannot put all indigenous players into one catagory - there are many indigenous players coming through the Clonlcaff academy (Indigenous footy school in Perth) but not all do. Many of the very fast indigenous players we see being recruited are smallish, in fact many Aboriginal tribes were/are fairly short people compared to the English and European settlers - but there are family groups that you could say are generally quite tall, and not always because of any inter-breeding with the Europeans.

Just as there are differences in sizes there are also often differences in the general cultural backgrounds and opportunities individuals have had. Some players have had it hard and come from family backgrounds that include drug addiction, alcoholism and the related problems that those situations produce and there are others such as our Clarke brothers that come from a background probably not too dissimilar to most of us who post on this forum - not withstanding the general cultural differences between people who live in Melbourne/city and Darwin/remote.

You will note that Essendon have quite a few indigenous players that have probably come through the Clonlcaff academy as Kevin Sheedy was/is an active supporter and visited the school whenever he was in Perth. I am sure that Essendon would have the appropriate support mechanisms in place to ensure the indigenous players can live in Melbourne in a relativy seemless way.

Unfortnunately players like Nicky Winmar was required to struggle along in the best way he could because although the club did their best at the time, it is my view that they had no real idea how to cope with the cultural differences to provide the necessary support systems/networks. Nevertheless, a lot of effort was put in and Nicky managed to complete his career with St Kilda - or nearly did - thanks to his and the clubs persisstance.

It's not just speed that many of the young indigenius players bring to the game - its very often their willingness to work hard, put their head over the ball and back themselves.

Many non-indigenous players from remote places find it hard to adjust to city life but they are usually from a similar social/cultual background and have a stronger family and community support network than some of the indigenous players that are recruited.

[Saintsime]

We have passed on the following available Aboriginal talent in the Draft in the last few years :

Aaron Davey Melb
Alwyn Davey Ess
Nathan Krakeour Pt Adel
The 2 North Melbourne small forwards (names elude me at the moment)
And so many more I can't care to think about it - it hurts me.

Feel free to add others I have missed.

We draft class acts like McGough, McQualter, Howard, Jones etc etc

We need to seriously think about replacing Milne in the next year or 2, so we must do what other clubs are doing and get on board some more aboriginal talent.

[LENNY LEADS THE WAY]

Xavier will be fine just needs a injury free year

[iwantmeseats]

By the way, what is the background on why Winmar left for one forgettable year with the dogs? I cant remember, just curious.

[Mr Magic]

By the way, what is the background on why Winmar left for one forgettable year with the dogs? I cant remember, just curious.

Had a blue with the coaching staff?

[saintsrus]

We have passed on the following available Aboriginal talent in the Draft in the last few years :

Aaron Davey Melb
Alwyn Davey Ess
Nathan Krakeour Pt Adel
The 2 North Melbourne small forwards (names elude me at the moment)
And so many more I can't care to think about it - it hurts me.

Feel free to add others I have missed.

We draft class acts like McGough, McQualter, Howard, Jones etc etc

We need to seriously think about replacing Milne in the next year or 2, so we must do what other clubs are doing and get on board some more aboriginal talent.

and Cyril Rioli in the last draft

[joffaboy]

didn't our small forward kick 7 goals?

[saintsRrising]

didn't our small forward kick 7 goals?

...and Steven will be a ripper too I believe.

With Schneider and X as well, I think we have more pressing needs.

[Saints Premiers 2008]

didn't our small forward kick 7 goals?

yes that is what i thought...he wont us the game little yapper did

he averages two goals per game...decent enough for a small forward one would think

wonawhateverhisname is has played one good game...doesnt look to flash really...looks like a fat indigenous player who is slow without much game

so what is the big deal?

[joffaboy]

wonawhateverhisname is has played one good game...doesnt look to flash really...looks like a fat indigenous player who is slow without much game

so what is the big deal?

Saw him playing for Sandy and didn't strike me as quick at all.

In fact got caught with the ball on numerous occasions.

[saintly]

I keep hearing on here that we had 'no recruiting resources' (or similar type ststements) and I wonder if that is actually true or just another furphy that has become truth?

Does anybody actually know this to be true, and what exactly does that mean?

I know tha JB was employed full-time and had a whole department at Moorabbin. I know he had a whole network of 'spotters' all over Victoria who were part-time/volunteers. Given that we seemed to draft players from every state and territory it would seem that we must have had some sort of 'recruiting network' in those states.

was at the neil roberts luncheon and HJohn peake talked about recruiting.

stated
1. this year is the 1st year where thiere is full time recruiters in each state.
2. before this year JB and john peake was it.
3. before John came on boars (which i believe was last year) JB did it all.
4. the spotters were only voluntary positions

not sure that i remember what else was said about recruitment. except that there network has grown.

[markinUSA]

Regarding Nicky: Remember the game against the Blues where he really 'lost it'? He was playing against a first-gamer, and he punched the fellow, if I recall. Then he was taken off by Stan Alves, but when he came on, he started fighting again. It really threw the team. He pushed Stewart Loewe away so that he could keep fighting... disappointing stuff.

I loved Nicky Winmar, but that was a very bad day. I think that day - in 1997 - caused his delisting. Even though I'd say he was one of our best on Grand Final day, which unfortunately had already been a very sad day for him with a death in his family.

[Dan Warna]

concur why do small forwards have to be aboriginal?

Xavier clarke has been one of best HBF when fit

for years folks tried to turn dale kicket into a FP/HBF when it turned out he was a natural and brilliantly talented HBF

and concur, how many small forwards of any genetic background can boast a 2 goal average like milne?

and throw in schneider as well as a goal scoring HFF...

folks look at every other club with jealousy and fail to realise what we are fortunate enough to have at our club.

[Dan Warna]

Regarding Nicky: Remember the game against the Blues where he really 'lost it'? He was playing against a first-gamer, and he punched the fellow, if I recall. Then he was taken off by Stan Alves, but when he came on, he started fighting again. It really threw the team. He pushed Stewart Loewe away so that he could keep fighting... disappointing stuff.

I loved Nicky Winmar, but that was a very bad day. I think that day - in 1997 - caused his delisting. Even though I'd say he was one of our best on Grand Final day, which unfortunately had already been a very sad day for him with a death in his family.

no he was playing on franchina who has scratching him, pinching him, scragging his jumper, punching him behind play.

franchina was a filthy little ferret, and didn't last long in the game.

yes winmar behaved badly, but really if that had been st kilda 4 seasons later, baker or hamill would have run through franchina and dropped him like a sack of shyte.

Look at geelong now, if anyone scrags bartel or ablett, scarlett or mooney would steam roll them.

[matrix]

slow?
well can we get hold of internal trial times etc like beep tests and sprint times?.....then we'll know how slow or how fast they really are.

would be interesting.

[osama milne laden]

>>>Regarding Nicky: Remember the game against the Blues where he really 'lost it'?

he also lost it against brereton 1990 at waverley and it cost him weeks - didn't matter in those days if you claimed racial vilification at the tribunal ... dermie just denied it anyway

years later dermie confessed his sins via a paid article for The Age, admitting he had said some nasty things to Nicky that day

http://members.pcug.org.au/~mos/nicky/brereton.html

[Dan Warna]

2 goal average over 200 games.

the kid does look exciting but we've seen flashy forwards come and go.

[matrix]

>>>Regarding Nicky: Remember the game against the Blues where he really 'lost it'?

he also lost it against brereton 1990 at waverley and it cost him weeks - didn't matter in those days if you claimed racial vilification at the tribunal ... dermie just denied it anyway

years later dermie confessed his sins via a paid article for The Age, admitting he had said some nasty things to Nicky that day

http://members.pcug.org.au/~mos/nicky/brereton.html

dermie is and always will be a pretty boy wanna be footballer and a tosser

[Dan Warna]

dermie is and always will be a pretty boy wanna be footballer and a tosser

dermie played 150 games of some of the most exhilerating football any forward has played.

his last 50 were a joke, but then everyone has their use by date.

the bit about being a tosser is true, in one of his last games for hawthorn, when we were drilling the hawks, the saints fans were telling dermie it was all over and watch down the other end at a real forward etc, he took out his frustration by belting shanahan and driving his head into the dirt.

I can understand dermie's frustration, his body just couldn't do what his head told his body to do. Probably not that different to hamill in the end.

he eked out another few years at sydney and collingwood, before realising he was basically finished at 26/27.

still he has his premiership medals to keep him warm at night.

as for winmar, some of our own fans used to make racist comments to winmar round outer wing too.

made my teenage ears burn (esp as coloured bloke) listening to some of the shyte the old tossers used to say to winmar as he dashed around the wing to drill the ball onto lockets chest again.

I reckon if a player like winmar was allowed to do what he did now (I mean regarding football ability) he would be a god amongst the players. Speed like judd, 60 metres kicks like goddard, 360 vision, driving handpasses that went 35metres, man you'd hear the 'oof' as a winmar handpass landed in the guts of the st kilda player he was aiming for.

[matrix]

still a tosser.....

[Dan Warna]

still a tosser.....

dermie?

yeah