Ross - time for unpredictability AND not to go backwards

[Teflon]

While we have some injuries it aint the end of the world and IMO outside Riewoldt the one that hurts us most is X Clarke (his run will be sorely missed). Goose was struggling prior to doing his leg IMO and Bakers a type we have a few of....and really...the modern day stoppers (aka Ling/Sewell) get posessions AS WELL as negate...we can cover these.

UP FORWARD is where we have to get unpredictable - not just cause Riewoldts injured but for our future.

Time to give Raph Clarke a shot up fwd...could he even play bursts from CHF as alead up option????

Kosi to square - HE IS TO RUCK ONLY AT FWD STOPPAGES.

Allen to HFF

Milne/Sneider for the crumbs and IF Dal Santo is tagged play him deep forward - if hes only gonna get 7 touches while tagged why not make them touches that hit a team mate up for a shot on goal???....(Ling, for example, who always gets him would be starved his own shots on goal and be restricted through the middle for posession).

With Gram so horribly off touch Im afraid we need a general by foot down back - that has to remain Goddard. So much footy goals come from rebounding qtr backs - hes ours.

Lastly we looked a different side last night when we moved the footy on quickly - and all of a sudden our fwds looked dangerous......why we can slam on 5 goals straight in the 3rd and then not go on with it after that I dont know...........thats the million dollar question - game plan? or is it all above the shoulders for players???

Mix it up Ross AND dont revert to Rix's, Blakes and Co - they arent our future we have to find a new path fwd with the "core" of this group.

[bigcarl]

well said teflon. agree with most of that and like the idea of r. clarke forward along with allen and kosi.

though riewoldt's injury is a blow we can use it as a spur and an opportunity to see what else will work.

[Armoooo]

If any of Blake, Rix, L.Fisher or Fiora are named in the side next week I don't think I will be able to sit through it, this is where we need to take a punt, those players aren't going to get us anywhere above 7th or 8th place, the upside with the kids is higher and even if they fail it will help their development and keep the window open that little bit longer...

[Teflon]

I really hope we try and mix things up - we need numerous avenues to goal (and to move the ball with some URGENCY - we looked good when we did this last night)

I know Lyon for sheer temptation would have to look to Blakes, Fiora's, Rix, etc....but surely we can start to introduce some of the new blood?

Play Geary (he offers a hell of a lot more upside than Mqualter for me)
Play Ferguson - at 24 he needs a role....might even be worth a shot on a HFF at some point
Give Allen a go.
Promote Eddy (if we can now)

Im not saying all in the same side the same week but rotate them through - give some consecutive games and then a spell etc.

Also we HAVE to address our use of the corridor going forward - how many times did you see Riewoldt, Milne and Co last night lining up near boundary lines???????????? - we need some run and carry through the corridor.....we look completely different (fwd line too) when we move with some URGENCY and when we TACKLE and they actually stick FFS.

[meher baba]

Stuff and nonsense. We are 4-3. It isn't time to bring in the kids. Its time to use the best players we have to their best advantage

L fisher is the obvious replacement for bakes

One of blake or gwilt for goose: take your pick (surely to goodness you wouldn't want ferguson playing on a pies key forward?)

Is max still injured? If so, then the unfairly maligned raph stays at the back

Maybe fergs or geary for dempster if he is injured

Maybe allen for riewoldt: but idont understand where all the hype about him is coming from

[Dan Warna]

Stuff and nonsense. We are 4-3. It isn't time to bring in the kids. Its time to use the best players we have to their best advantage

L fisher is the obvious replacement for bakes

One of blake or gwilt for goose: take your pick (surely to goodness you wouldn't want ferguson playing on a pies key forward?)

Is max still injured? If so, then the unfairly maligned raph stays at the back

Maybe fergs or geary for dempster if he is injured

Maybe allen for riewoldt: but idont understand where all the hype about him is coming from

concur

I don't see us out of the finals yet, and with some good luck baker, goose and Reiwoldt in for the last games of the year for a genuine tilt.

[Spinner]

Ferguson on Thomas?

[meher baba]

Ferguson on Thomas?

That would possibly work: but, as with Allen, I don't get all the hype about Ferguson on this forum. Reading some posts, you'd think he was the next Nathan Buckley.

There seems to be a hell of a lot of "absence makes the heart grow fonder" going on around here.

[Dan Warna]

raph clarke needs to be put in the forward line and told to shoot for goal at every opportunity.

i think he could be a revelation there.

he has everything except decision making.

KISS

[steph]

i wouldn't mind if fisher came in for baker but that's it.

blake, fiora and rix should never play again.

what's the point of youngsters if they aren't gonna be given a go to show what they've got.

[bob__71]

raph clarke needs to be put in the forward line and told to shoot for goal at every opportunity.

i think he could be a revelation there.

he has everything except decision making.

KISS

Let Raph set the goals up for other players...he does that very well.

Shoot for goal sometimes...but crosses to the corridor are his specialiity

[Teflon]

Stuff and nonsense. We are 4-3. It isn't time to bring in the kids. Its time to use the best players we have to their best advantage

L fisher is the obvious replacement for bakes

One of blake or gwilt for goose: take your pick (surely to goodness you wouldn't want ferguson playing on a pies key forward?)

Is max still injured? If so, then the unfairly maligned raph stays at the back

Maybe fergs or geary for dempster if he is injured

Maybe allen for riewoldt: but idont understand where all the hype about him is coming from

wheres the stuff and nonsense in attempting to get our fwd line to function and rotating an Allen, Geary or McEvoy into the line up for their respective turns?

Who says doing that we arent aiming to play finals?

Stuff and nonsense is to sit back and do nothing except blame a coach 30 odd games into his tenure like a sad sack broken record.

[meher baba]

wheres the stuff and nonsense in attempting to get our fwd line to function and rotating an Allen, Geary or McEvoy into the line up for their respective turns?

The whole concept of young players having "turns" doesn't seem to have much to do with putting our best available 22 on the park every weekend: which is what sides aiming for the top 4 and beyond are generally doing.

Stuff and nonsense is to sit back and do nothing except blame a coach 30 odd games into his tenure like a sad sack broken record

At least I blame the current coach rather than continually lambasting the former one who hasn't been there for the past 30 odd games.

[Stephen Theodore]

Meher baba wrote:
Stuff and nonsense. We are 4-3. It isn't time to bring in the kids. Its time to use the best players we have to their best advantage

L fisher is the obvious replacement for bakes

One of blake or gwilt for goose: take your pick (surely to goodness you wouldn't want ferguson playing on a pies key forward?)

Is max still injured? If so, then the unfairly maligned raph stays at the back

Maybe fergs or geary for dempster if he is injured

Maybe allen for riewoldt: but idont understand where all the hype about him is coming from

I wholeheartdly agree: We are well in the mix for a top six finish, play the best available team each week. Blake has to come in for Goose, and L.fisher to come in for Baker. Kids should not be played for the sake of seeing how they go. Give them a game when they deserve one, and not before.

[Teflon]

Meher baba wrote:
Stuff and nonsense. We are 4-3. It isn't time to bring in the kids. Its time to use the best players we have to their best advantage

L fisher is the obvious replacement for bakes

One of blake or gwilt for goose: take your pick (surely to goodness you wouldn't want ferguson playing on a pies key forward?)

Is max still injured? If so, then the unfairly maligned raph stays at the back

Maybe fergs or geary for dempster if he is injured

Maybe allen for riewoldt: but idont understand where all the hype about him is coming from

I wholeheartdly agree: We are well in the mix for a top six finish, play the best available team each week. Blake has to come in for Goose, and L.fisher to come in for Baker. Kids should not be played for the sake of seeing how they go. Give them a game when they deserve one, and not before.

Somebody tell me what Jason Blake has done at VFL level over and above Allen whose kicked multiple bags consecutive weeks and put his hand up?

F@Rk me - nah...its all to hard...lets revert back to the tried and failed "Blake" WHO WOULD NOT get a game at Hawthorn OR Geelong.
Might as well bring back Rix also....cause hes playe AFL game before so he MUST deserve a go.

[Teflon]

wheres the stuff and nonsense in attempting to get our fwd line to function and rotating an Allen, Geary or McEvoy into the line up for their respective turns?

The whole concept of young players having "turns" doesn't seem to have much to do with putting our best available 22 on the park every weekend: which is what sides aiming for the top 4 and beyond are generally doing.

Stuff and nonsense is to sit back and do nothing except blame a coach 30 odd games into his tenure like a sad sack broken record

At least I blame the current coach rather than continually lambasting the former one who hasn't been there for the past 30 odd games.

What simplistic dribble - where have I said select players to take turns? f@rk me its worse than In thought....

Rotating players through MUST contain merit but as Collingwoods - even Geelong do is they give these younger guys a chance as opposed to resorting to the Rix's/Blakes who are taking us nowhere. Has Allen not earnt his chance? Has Geary NOT shown enough to demonstrate he can cut it at this level??????????

As for the coach Im not interested in having another "GT" thread (leave that to you) Im interested in real improvements under a NEW coach whose 30 games into his tenure.

Unlike your pathetic, typical St Kilda supporter knee jerk reactions in calling for him to be sacked (which you do weekly).

[kalsaint]

wheres the stuff and nonsense in attempting to get our fwd line to function and rotating an Allen, Geary or McEvoy into the line up for their respective turns?

The whole concept of young players having "turns" doesn't seem to have much to do with putting our best available 22 on the park every weekend: which is what sides aiming for the top 4 and beyond are generally doing.

Stuff and nonsense is to sit back and do nothing except blame a coach 30 odd games into his tenure like a sad sack broken record

At least I blame the current coach rather than continually lambasting the former one who hasn't been there for the past 30 odd games.

I personnally like the idea of playing some of the kids. As you said earlier "There seems to be a hell of a lot of "absence makes the heart grow fonder" going on around here". If this provides motivation to spur on other players, so be it.

There is no doubt in my mind that playing a couple of kids per week doesnt mean that we have tossed in 2008. Many other sides do this susccessfully and we need to tap some enthusiasm and speed to this side.

[Teflon]

wheres the stuff and nonsense in attempting to get our fwd line to function and rotating an Allen, Geary or McEvoy into the line up for their respective turns?

The whole concept of young players having "turns" doesn't seem to have much to do with putting our best available 22 on the park every weekend: which is what sides aiming for the top 4 and beyond are generally doing.

Stuff and nonsense is to sit back and do nothing except blame a coach 30 odd games into his tenure like a sad sack broken record

At least I blame the current coach rather than continually lambasting the former one who hasn't been there for the past 30 odd games.

I personnally like the idea of playing some of the kids. As you said earlier "There seems to be a hell of a lot of "absence makes the heart grow fonder" going on around here". If this provides motivation to spur on other players, so be it.

There is no doubt in my mind that playing a couple of kids per week doesnt mean that we have tossed in 2008. Many other sides do this susccessfully and we need to tap some enthusiasm and speed to this side.

Spot on.

Youve articulated it in 1 - its about getting some energy back and some urgency that a couple of newer younger faces to a sdie can bring - take a look at Melbourne after 1 game that smallish rookie they bought in last week against Freo (cant think of his name) has injected a sense of hope into a side rock bottom.

Why revert to Blake, Rix, Fiora and co ? TRY something different.

[sunsaint]

Its funny how some here crucify their hated players for making a few mistakes...
but yet would be willing to accept the same mistakes that would be made by "kids".
Perhaps the reason for the kids playing in the VFL is because they have not earned their place over the Blakes, Fiora, Rix, & L Fischer 's
Would it be rude of me to remind everyone here of the mighty Brooks.
Used to hear the exact same calls.

[groupie1]

I'm with Baba on wondering about Ferguson's hype - i think he has a big heart but isn't an AFL standard player (a bit like Rix, Blake etc in the regard)

against the Pies we have Hudghton, Goose, Roo, X missing:

they have 2 tall, lumbering forwards: Gwilt and Kozi for mine
this means we'll need a second ruckman: King if fit, McEvoy if not
if it all goes to s*** (ie McEvoy not upto it) we can switch S fisher onto Cloke/Rocca and Kozi in the ruck
I'd be looking at Geary to come in for Dempster, who's crap, Eddy for X, R Clarke to play forward for Roo - leaves a back six of Goddard, Gwilt, Geary, Fisher, Kozi, Gram - the latter extremely lucky not to be dropped.
and we hope like hell Hudghton and Gilbert get back soon
gives us a forward line comprising Milne, Schneider, Gehrig, C Gardiner, Raph - looks good for me (but then again, why wouldn't it, i thought of it)
summary:
OUT: Goose, Roo, X, Dempster
IN: King/McEvoy, Geary, Gwilt, Eddy

[meher baba]

Its funny how some here crucify their hated players for making a few mistakes...
but yet would be willing to accept the same mistakes that would be made by "kids".
Perhaps the reason for the kids playing in the VFL is because they have not earned their place over the Blakes, Fiora, Rix, & L Fischer 's
Would it be rude of me to remind everyone here of the mighty Brooks.
Used to hear the exact same calls.

It''s a bit like how several posters (interestingly, mostly the same ones) would endlessly deride GT for certain actions which they are totally silent when Lyon does them, eg: Blake as a ruckman, the regular selection of unreliable or low skill players, the lack of any sort of plan B, etc., etc.

I've come to the conclusion that some of the extremely regular posters on here are like those fans you sometimes sit near at the footy who have an endless supply of criticism for most current players, the coaching staff and all aspects of the club unless we are winning by 6 goals or more.

The only reason that they are silent about Lyon is because many of them went so far out on a limb for so long about how wonderful he was going to be compared to GT. However, if you read their posts carefully, you can see that some of them are slowly positioning themselves to turn on Lyon when they feel ready (probably straight after the club sacks him and replaces him with a new coach whom these imbeciles can immediately elevate to the status of the new saviour).

The tragedy for more level-headed supporters is that we can see how Butterss and the previous board stuffed everything up completely during 2006-07 and are now lamenting that these monumental mistakes have quite possibly robbed us of a precious premiership or two.

We could see that the main reason that we didn't win flags in 2005 and 2006 was nothing to do with GT's failings as a coach or with our inability to copy the Swans' tedious game plan, but was almost entirely due to our appalling run with injuries.

We could see that the main factor in our injury problems was not the unfairly maligned Larcom or anything GT or any other human being had done, but was the fact that we played week in and week out on the Telstra Dome surface.

We could see that bringing in a new, inexperienced bunch of coaching staff with no background at the club, a game plan designed for a small, circular ground (ie, not the Dome or the MCG) and a large bunch of mercenary rejects from other clubs (count them: Birss, Gardi, M Clarke, Schneider, C Gardiner, Dempster and King) wasn't going to take us to "the next level".

I'm sick of arguing about it: it's just a damn shame, that's all.

[rodgerfox]

Its funny how some here crucify their hated players for making a few mistakes...
but yet would be willing to accept the same mistakes that would be made by "kids".
Perhaps the reason for the kids playing in the VFL is because they have not earned their place over the Blakes, Fiora, Rix, & L Fischer 's
Would it be rude of me to remind everyone here of the mighty Brooks.
Used to hear the exact same calls.

It''s a bit like how several posters (interestingly, mostly the same ones) would endlessly deride GT for certain actions which they are totally silent when Lyon does them, eg: Blake as a ruckman, the regular selection of unreliable or low skill players, the lack of any sort of plan B, etc., etc.

I've come to the conclusion that some of the extremely regular posters on here are like those fans you sometimes sit near at the footy who have an endless supply of criticism for most current players, the coaching staff and all aspects of the club unless we are winning by 6 goals or more.

The only reason that they are silent about Lyon is because many of them went so far out on a limb for so long about how wonderful he was going to be compared to GT. However, if you read their posts carefully, you can see that some of them are slowly positioning themselves to turn on Lyon when they feel ready (probably straight after the club sacks him and replaces him with a new coach whom these imbeciles can immediately elevate to the status of the new saviour).

The tragedy for more level-headed supporters is that we can see how Butterss and the previous board stuffed everything up completely during 2006-07 and are now lamenting that these monumental mistakes have quite possibly robbed us of a precious premiership or two.

We could see that the main reason that we didn't win flags in 2005 and 2006 was nothing to do with GT's failings as a coach or with our inability to copy the Swans' tedious game plan, but was almost entirely due to our appalling run with injuries.

We could see that the main factor in our injury problems was not the unfairly maligned Larcom or anything GT or any other human being had done, but was the fact that we played week in and week out on the Telstra Dome surface.

We could see that bringing in a new, inexperienced bunch of coaching staff with no background at the club, a game plan designed for a small, circular ground (ie, not the Dome or the MCG) and a large bunch of mercenary rejects from other clubs (count them: Birss, Gardi, M Clarke, Schneider, C Gardiner, Dempster and King) wasn't going to take us to "the next level".

I'm sick of arguing about it: it's just a damn shame, that's all.

Absolutely, categorically, totally, completely and utterly, 100% correct.


Full stop.

Period.

[Teflon]

Its funny how some here crucify their hated players for making a few mistakes...
but yet would be willing to accept the same mistakes that would be made by "kids".
Perhaps the reason for the kids playing in the VFL is because they have not earned their place over the Blakes, Fiora, Rix, & L Fischer 's
Would it be rude of me to remind everyone here of the mighty Brooks.
Used to hear the exact same calls.

It''s a bit like how several posters (interestingly, mostly the same ones) would endlessly deride GT for certain actions which they are totally silent when Lyon does them, eg: Blake as a ruckman, the regular selection of unreliable or low skill players, the lack of any sort of plan B, etc., etc.

I've come to the conclusion that some of the extremely regular posters on here are like those fans you sometimes sit near at the footy who have an endless supply of criticism for most current players, the coaching staff and all aspects of the club unless we are winning by 6 goals or more.

The only reason that they are silent about Lyon is because many of them went so far out on a limb for so long about how wonderful he was going to be compared to GT. However, if you read their posts carefully, you can see that some of them are slowly positioning themselves to turn on Lyon when they feel ready (probably straight after the club sacks him and replaces him with a new coach whom these imbeciles can immediately elevate to the status of the new saviour).

The tragedy for more level-headed supporters is that we can see how Butterss and the previous board stuffed everything up completely during 2006-07 and are now lamenting that these monumental mistakes have quite possibly robbed us of a precious premiership or two.

We could see that the main reason that we didn't win flags in 2005 and 2006 was nothing to do with GT's failings as a coach or with our inability to copy the Swans' tedious game plan, but was almost entirely due to our appalling run with injuries.

We could see that the main factor in our injury problems was not the unfairly maligned Larcom or anything GT or any other human being had done, but was the fact that we played week in and week out on the Telstra Dome surface.

We could see that bringing in a new, inexperienced bunch of coaching staff with no background at the club, a game plan designed for a small, circular ground (ie, not the Dome or the MCG) and a large bunch of mercenary rejects from other clubs (count them: Birss, Gardi, M Clarke, Schneider, C Gardiner, Dempster and King) wasn't going to take us to "the next level".

I'm sick of arguing about it: it's just a damn shame, that's all.

Why is it you constantly bemoAN the fact of "so called" posters constantly deriding your hero Grant yet you constantly introduce him to the topic?

Ive noted already on the board several occasions where posters have asked you to simply drop your mindless, drone like attacks on Lyon yet still you persist to compare him to your man Grant?

Lets be clear - 1 has coached for 30 odd games - the other for 5 yrs.....(you do know Grants gone?) - what part of the idea of at least giving Lyon the chance dont you get?

Im more than happy to hang 15 coaches out if need be to get a flag but JUST ONCE Id like to think our supporters have a little more b@lls than to be calling for a guys head 1.5 seasons into his tenure????? or maybe these are the kind of people happy to have St Kilda as "the rabble" so often referred to in days gone...

The sad reality is this is all about "Lyon Vs Gt" STILL 1.5YRS ON in your warped weird world.....somehow a sacking of Lyon vindicates that Grant "really was ok" ......and thats so sad its laughable.

Still.....it gets you support from some of the more mentally challenged on here so you some comfort I guess (great minds thinking alike and all...).

Good luck in your pursuit of getting a NEW coach sacked so you can come back and tell us all "Grant WAS the saviour" and not just a naughty boy.

ps - loved the bit on "we didnt win a flag cause of TD surface"......yet we werent saying that 10 straight in 04.......but just wheel out another half @ssed excuse for your love child instead of facing facts your "man manager" was a corporate fraud released onto the footy world and was absolutely best exited OUT I say....and probably a year to late which we WILL pay for now.

[Teflon]

Its funny how some here crucify their hated players for making a few mistakes...
but yet would be willing to accept the same mistakes that would be made by "kids".
Perhaps the reason for the kids playing in the VFL is because they have not earned their place over the Blakes, Fiora, Rix, & L Fischer 's
Would it be rude of me to remind everyone here of the mighty Brooks.
Used to hear the exact same calls.

Why would it be funny to hold to account SENIOR AFL players who constantly make the same mistakes under pressure but allow a developing kid some more latitude?

I woulda thought that quite normal...

Why can some clubs SAFELY inject youth into their side WITHOUT it meaning they are running upthe white flag for the season all of a sudden -yet at St kilda IF WE DONT play the likes of Rix, Fiora, Blake we are somehow deemed to be surrendering???
I woulda thought continuing to flog a dead horse is more surrender than developing younger players that just might also, when combined with a relativeky youthful core, extend our flag winning opportunities over the coming years????

BTW - Barry Brooks IMHO was poorly handled in terms of opportunities to develop.

[rodgerfox]

BTW - Barry Brooks IMHO was poorly handled in terms of opportunities to develop.

BTW - Barry Brooks did his knee.