"I was out-coached"

[rodgerfox]

I like Ross Lyon.

However the events of the past week have concerned me a little.

He's appeared more passionate this week, than in the 18 months he's been at the club. This week, he has really come out swinging. However, the problem is that it's in defence of himself, at the expense of the players.

The infamous "I was out-coached" line used by GT at press conferences was condemned by most, however I think the playing group would probably gain respect for you when you say it like that - it's the coaches job to ensure players do what he asks, if they don't then it is he who is at fault. Therefore, the line "I was out-coached".

This was often misinterpreted as being 'out-strategised'.

I'd expect behind closed doors the responsibility would be shiftly at the feet of the players, however in public you need to be very careful about hanging people out to dry.

I don't like the sarcastic, almost arrogant responses from Lyon that suggest everyone is stupid except him and the coaches. The comment about looking around the box and asking if that is the way train etc. etc.

Three things......

Firstly, there is no need to effectively call the players morons and incompetent in public forum. Especially when you're still relatively new at the place.

Secondly, it's his job to make sure his plan gets followed. That is pretty much the core role of a coach.

And thirdly, good composed coaches don't need to defend their actions publicly. When they do, it's often a sign they have their own doubts.

[spert]

I agree rodgerfox..a few worrying signs. I just wonder if the playing group really respect RL, as there seems to be discipline issues on-field..e.g. Max's spit-the-dummy effort against Goose was poor for a senior player.

[SENsei]

In my view, Ross is struggling a little at the moment, as are most new coaches, new to the caper in the head job.

Knights - dream start but always going to thud back to earth with a poor list and comparisons to Sheedy.

Bailey - took on the toughest job in footy. Will be rebuilding for years.

Harvey - Freo are shite and he's going to cop it soon I think.

Ratten - will be an up and down year. He's thanking god for Judd as without him and his profile, Carlton would be Melbourne.

Lyon - has struggled in the role since day one, in my view. However, I think he has the smarts to get it done. Whether the club has the patience to hold their nerve on him or not, is another matter. Remember, he was not appointed by this administration.

[SENsei]

I agree rodgerfox..a few worrying signs. I just wonder if the playing group really respect RL, as there seems to be discipline issues on-field..e.g. Max's spit-the-dummy effort against Goose was poor for a senior player.

Disagree on the 'dummy spit'. I love to see passionate players. Max is as passionate as you will get. Sometimes you need someone to give it to you to realise your effort was not as is expected.

Look at Gary Ablett's appraisal from his teammates in 2007 pre season. Look how it spurred him along.

Peer group pressure in a football club is paramount.

[SENsei]

The infamous "I was out-coached" line used by GT

He's gone.

Move on.

[JeffDunne]

I thought the comments this week from Lyon were a little precious.

Was surprised to hear from the president too on the subject. It was nice to actually hear something from him. I have a feeling Lyon might be starting to feel the heat over how we are playing.

A coach should never throw his players under a bus. Some players might be worth targetting individually (although I don't like it), but you never let your players know you are losing belief in them.

Lyon came close to that this week.

[bigcarl]

A coach should never throw his players under a bus.

his job is to make sure they are all on the bus

[fingers]

I agree in part - the thing I disagree with is sometimes you have to lay it on the line for the players. Every other part of their life is scrutinized beyond reason however if a coach comes out and gives them a serve we as supporters get precious. Making them accountable is a good thing.

[cwrcyn]

You shouldn't expext Lyon to be partcularly articulate or well-rounded. After all, he failed year 11 at school and has since only been in football clubs.

Now, that gives him great knowledge about football, but we shouldn't expect great things of him as a media player. Perhaps he should be given more assistance in this area.

[rodgerfox]

I agree in part - the thing I disagree with is sometimes you have to lay it on the line for the players. Every other part of their life is scrutinized beyond reason however if a coach comes out and gives them a serve we as supporters get precious. Making them accountable is a good thing.

I do agree with that. Nothing wrong with challenging a player for a particular reason or over a particular incident. You need to know the player well and use this method to get the best out of them - it works for some, has the opposite effect on others.

But to pot the whole team to defend yourself is wrong.

And I'm sure the players will get sick of hearing how dumb and incompetent they are too.

[saintsRrising]

I like Ross Lyon.


And thirdly, good composed coaches don't need to defend their actions publicly. .

???? Strange...I thought the AFL made it compulsory that AFL coaches had to do a public post-match press conference.... a large part of which is that the losing coach has to defend his actions....

[yipper]

Well Jon Ralph from the Herald Sun reckoned he performed very well this week. Got on the front foot to defend his players and his gameplan and talk up our chances.

Don't know where the player criticism has come from. He has singled out Gehrig and DalSanto along with defending Maxie and Goose.

But I think it has been a refreshing change to his demeanor this week - has been quite open, honest and definately got on the front foot and challenged peoples perceptions - along with strongly defending his players - as I would have expected him to do.

[rodgerfox]

Well Jon Ralph from the Herald Sun reckoned he performed very well this week.

I'd almost rest my case if Jon Ralph disagrees.

Got on the front foot to defend his players and his gameplan and talk up our chances.

You see Yipper, I didn't see it that way. I saw it as him defending his game plan, and passing the blame onto the players for not being smart enough or good enough to carry it out properly.

[rodgerfox]

I like Ross Lyon.


And thirdly, good composed coaches don't need to defend their actions publicly. .

???? Strange...I thought the AFL made it compulsory that AFL coaches had to do a public post-match press conference.... a large part of which is that the losing coach has to defend his actions....

I know you're attempting to be a smart aarse here, well at least I hope you are.

Do you really think the coaches attend these press conferences and answer questions openly and honestly in an attempt to give the public a real insight into what happened?

The coaches, the good ones, know exactly what happened and why it happened. They keep it between themselves and their players. The ones that feel the need to justify things to the public and to the press, are the ones who are showing cracks.

[aussiejones]

" But to pot the whole team to defend yourself is wrong. "

By now he should have them 'on board' with his plan...

Need work on intensity, and being given some licence to keep pushing forward ie they are exiciting when they take a chance and back each other up.

I am still hopeful it will gel sometime soon.

What has John Barker contributed to our forward line ???

[Ralphy]

" But to pot the whole team to defend yourself is wrong. "

By now he should have them 'on board' with his plan...

Need work on intensity, and being given some licence to keep pushing forward ie they are exiciting when they take a chance and back each other up.

I am still hopeful it will gel sometime soon.

What has John Barker contributed to our forward line ???

employ stewie loewe or locket (wont happen) to be our forward coach piss Barker off

[spert]

The old saying still holds true : Criticize in private, Praise in public

[saintsRrising]

Now I take the point about keeping things in house....

....but perhaps there also reaches a point and a time that if things are not happening the way that they are meant to be that you try a different way.


I would assume that there have been endless private in-house chats, one-on-ones and meetings about things....perhaps this weeks various statements are a sign that the coach and players are pinning it up on the wall publically about how they intend to play.

Whether coaches and players actually apply this we should know during the Tigers game.

Perhaps Lyon has lost the players (or perhaps rather just not engaged them)???? I think the next two weeks weeks will be telling.

[yipper]

Well Jon Ralph from the Herald Sun reckoned he performed very well this week.

I'd almost rest my case if Jon Ralph disagrees.

Got on the front foot to defend his players and his gameplan and talk up our chances.

You see Yipper, I didn't see it that way. I saw it as him defending his game plan, and passing the blame onto the players for not being smart enough or good enough to carry it out properly.

I think he had 2 episodes of differing styles - straight after the game last week he potted the team as being unable to play to his instructions, but by Tuesday he had a re-think and got pro-active about defending the club, his own style AND his players against the heavy stream of criticism. Came out with some good counter arguments and talked up the team's efforts and progress thus far - also went on the attack against those criticising individual players.

[yipper]

Not sure what to make of his performance over the week to be honest. Bit unsure of himself early in the post match discussions - but by Tuesday he was out there swinging and showing some of his real self??

[saintsRrising]

I think he had 2 episodes of differing styles - straight after the game last week he potted the team as being unable to play to his instructions, but by Tuesday he had a re-think and got pro-active about defending the club, his own style AND his players against the heavy stream of criticism. Came out with some good counter arguments and talked up the team's efforts and progress thus far - also went on the attack against those criticising individual players.

well said..

I think too that some frustration probably came out on Saturday...a few cracks yes perhaps, but also perhaps jus ta sign of some frustration......and bit of what some pschiatrists may call "verbalised thinking'.

Later in the week he was more speaking on what he had time to think about saying.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

I was surprised by the approach by Lyon, and by the repeat of the same sort of line by Reiwoldt on Monday. If it was intended to say is wasn't Lyon's fault, that's not the message I received... However, without knowing what's going on behind the scenes, I'm not going to criticise him to heavily for his public demeanour - honestly, he can sing nursery rhymes in his press conference as far as I'm concerned, just get the team playing better.

Taking the "not playing as they train" message, provided there's some real soulsearching done after a performance where that's the case, there's possible upside and downside to having said it publicly. Should that continue to be the case, the natural inference will be that the players aren't on board with the coach. Alternatively, it could be a wake up call for the players to say "we need to give this a better effort", or even to front up to the coach and say "here's why this isn't going to happen."

There's a lot more to coaching that just beinig the best strategist and tactician, the "smartest guy in the room", being a motivator is at least as important, and to do that requires communication. On the back of that kind of public statement, I'm hoping the lines of communication are open and being used this week to make sure that win or lose on Saturday, it's done as a team, and done to a plan.

[Sobraz]

My only issue with Lyon from this weeks press is how he has constantly used 10 and 12 goals as evidence of us not being a defensive team..

This for mine, is a joke.. 12 goals a game ave. is pathetic, and if Lyon thinks otherwise, then he doesnt even know he is a defensive coach himself..

This sat night may prove alot about where we're going, and Lyon as coach..

[bigred]

our forward coach piss Barker off

I think this requires further investigation.

I am not a fan. This is more of a concern than Lyon is.

[plugger66]

our forward coach piss Barker off

I think this requires further investigation.

I am not a fan. This is more of a concern than Lyon is.

How do you work that out. RL is the coach and will always have the final say. If Plugger and Ablett played in the forward line at the moment they wouldnt get a kick because of the slow movement of the ball from down back. Not sure that is the forward line coaches problem.