Riewldt - very interesting..

[Teflon]

WE ARE INSTRUCTED TO GO OUT AND PLAY AN ATTACKING STYLE OF GAME WHICH WE ARE NOR EXECUTING"

Could it be as simple as Lyon cant get the best out of these players?

Say what you like about GT...he had them playing as a team.

A good coach will always get the best out of his players.

I hear the word 'confidence' is down a lot...why?

Why arent our players confident?

I see hesitation and confusion out there...i see frustration and anger...i dont see a unified team...now who's to blame for this?

This team knows how to win games...its something else thats stuffing their heads up IMO.

Im not sure in 2006 GT got the best out of our players - we were sliding then for mine and everytime a team flooded we were knackered.

In 2006 our players had the lightest pre-season ever and it showed. At the end of the year we were only just running into form whilst carrying X, Raph, Sammy and Kos with the vague hope that they may come good despite missing most of the year. It was a Carp year and losing 4 players by half time against Melbourne capped it off.

But were we really on a downward spiral? Maybe ... maybe not. It was IMO extremely foolish to go in with such a light pre-season and it cost GT his job.

Regardless of our injury battles for a second and back to the key premise of my post (and sometimes we forget other sides also have injuries..) does going into a season with a light pre season constitute getting the best from your list from a coaching perspective?

[Shaggy]

WE ARE INSTRUCTED TO GO OUT AND PLAY AN ATTACKING STYLE OF GAME WHICH WE ARE NOR EXECUTING"

Could it be as simple as Lyon cant get the best out of these players?

Say what you like about GT...he had them playing as a team.

A good coach will always get the best out of his players.

I hear the word 'confidence' is down a lot...why?

Why arent our players confident?

I see hesitation and confusion out there...i see frustration and anger...i dont see a unified team...now who's to blame for this?

This team knows how to win games...its something else thats stuffing their heads up IMO.

Im not sure in 2006 GT got the best out of our players - we were sliding then for mine and everytime a team flooded we were knackered.

In 2006 our players had the lightest pre-season ever and it showed. At the end of the year we were only just running into form whilst carrying X, Raph, Sammy and Kos with the vague hope that they may come good despite missing most of the year. It was a Carp year and losing 4 players by half time against Melbourne capped it off.

But were we really on a downward spiral? Maybe ... maybe not. It was IMO extremely foolish to go in with such a light pre-season and it cost GT his job.

Regardless of our injury battles for a second and back to the key premise of my post (and sometimes we forget other sides also have injuries..) does going into a season with a light pre season constitute getting the best from your list from a coaching perspective?

On the injury front I don't know where we should have had ended up finishing in 2006. Clearly we had Melbourne done. We probably would have lost again in the prelim final.

I agree GT didn't get the best of the players in 2006 that is clearly correct. IMO we were the best in 2005 and only 3 injuries in Fremantle and Adelaide games plus Chips and Sammy in between cost us.

But to me footy is not an exact science and there is a huge need to experiment. Somethings work some don't. 2006 did not work for us. And yes GT failed. But of course he wouldn't have done the same the following year.

Now I believe we have RL making many other different mistakes.

[Teflon]

I agree Shaggy - we had Melb done in 2006.
I think Thomas played injured players in 2005...just my view though.

To be truthful Lyons game plan isnt obvious to anyone yet - possibly even the players - and maybe thats the problem who knows?

When we score quickly direct out of the middle we look great but the rest of our build ups look sloppy, poorly skilled and to the same multiple teamed option...

[AP Erebus]

I saw a stat today that made the OP's point valid...

We have a + difference in forward 50 entries vs our opponents... which means that we are getting it in there enough....

For me it's forward efficiency (accuracy) and the quality of ball that is being sent in there...

We are terribly inaccurate and butcher the ball consistently... Fix these and it'll look a WHOLE lot better.

[Teflon]

I saw a stat today that made the OP's point valid...

We have a + difference in forward 50 entries vs our opponents... which means that we are getting it in there enough....

For me it's forward efficiency (accuracy) and the quality of ball that is being sent in there...

We are terribly inaccurate and butcher the ball consistently... Fix these and it'll look a WHOLE lot better.

Good point - Id add 1 more fwd dimension where we are getting killed....fwd pressure.

The footy just comes out way to fast with little pressure. Heard Nth fwds after beating Collingwood priding themselves on how long they kept the ball in their fwd half and how theu fought for that....we dont nearly enough and truth is many times past it was left to Hamill.

[Shaggy]

I saw a stat today that made the OP's point valid...

We have a + difference in forward 50 entries vs our opponents... which means that we are getting it in there enough....

For me it's forward efficiency (accuracy) and the quality of ball that is being sent in there...

We are terribly inaccurate and butcher the ball consistently... Fix these and it'll look a WHOLE lot better.

Fair enough but I would love to see the stats on the average number of players we have in the forward 50 when the ball is kicked down there

We really don't give our talls support in the forward line and it is easy for the opposition to get the ball to ground and take it away with extra numbers.

IMO the only times currently we really look good is when we can take the ball out of the centre and get the ball inside 50 when both our smalls and talls are there. We can kick serious goals in succession on a one to one basis with the footballers we have.

[Mr Magic]

Another thing that may be causing problems up forward.

Has anybody noticed a 'subtle' change' to umpire interpretations in the last 3 weeks?

For the first 3 weeks of the season a backman needed only to look at a forward and the umpires would pay a free kick.

In the last 3 games it appears that some limited contact is being allowed.

Maybe our gameplan viz-a-viz marking forwards is based somewhat on the 'knowledge' that any ball kicked in the air to Roo/Kosi will result either in a mark to them or an automatic free (for touching) and all of a sudden with the change in interpretation, defenders are able to get away with less free kicks?

It might help explain why some of the 'long bombs' being kicked in are not resulting in scoring opportunities for us?

[rodgerfox]

I saw a stat today that made the OP's point valid...

We have a + difference in forward 50 entries vs our opponents... which means that we are getting it in there enough....

For me it's forward efficiency (accuracy) and the quality of ball that is being sent in there...

We are terribly inaccurate and butcher the ball consistently... Fix these and it'll look a WHOLE lot better.

I don't think that stat on it's own is of much value.

How many of those entires are any good? How many are under extreme pressure?

That's always been the difference between us winning a losing since 2004. This is where the whole 'kick it to Roo game plan' myth came from. When we're under pressure we seem to simply bomb it in and can't score. This has never been the game plan - just a symptom of our midfield not running hard enough and protecting each other.

[rodgerfox]

I think Thomas played injured players in 2005...just my view though.

He didn't really have much choice in the end.

Although when he didn't play Kosi and Hamill in the prelim we were bagged for not playing them.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

I saw a stat today that made the OP's point valid...

We have a + difference in forward 50 entries vs our opponents... which means that we are getting it in there enough....

For me it's forward efficiency (accuracy) and the quality of ball that is being sent in there...

We are terribly inaccurate and butcher the ball consistently... Fix these and it'll look a WHOLE lot better.

One of the things that irritates me about the way we're bombing it in from nowhere to nothing is the way it props up the inside 50s count... I'd be very curious to know what our inside 50:scoring shot ratio is.

browsing the top 25 for marks inside 50 on afl.com we've got 2 players in the top 25, Reiwoldt (4th) on 25 (conversion 15.6 with 7 assists) and Milne on 13 (conversion 11.10 with 4 assists)... That's 38 between our top 2 in the stat, for a conversion of 26.16. Comparatively, Brown (14th) and Bradshaw (3rd) have taken 48 marks inside 50, Burton and Goodwin have taken 41, Welsh, Johnson and Akermanis have taken 52... and on and on.

What I think that tells us is that given we've got quality marking forwards, the delivery has not been good. Firstly, if we've got a positive differential, Milne should not be 2nd for marks inside 50. Secondly, if we've got a positive differential, we should be taking a lot of marks inside the forward 50.

[saint66au]

Its one of the most damning stats in the modern game. Breaking even with inside 50's yet being behind on the scoreboard

I remember a game v melbourne at the G in the 1990's where we had one less inside 50 for the game yet lost...........................by 90-odd points

[spert]

Fix the forward line, thats number one. It's easy to keep blaming ball delivery, but for example, I noticed Roo quite a few times in games, running under the ball which was being kicked to him..his opponents seemed to be able to read the flight of the ball much better and took possession..it looks like poor delivery, but it's not always the case. All teams at some stage deliver the ball poorly to the forward line..even Geelong, but their forward's work rate is high, and they either win the contests, or make a contest so an opportunity is created -a total contrast to our forwards at the moment. I would like to see Milne gone out of there for good..a real weak link.

[saintsRrising]

Fix the forward line, thats number one. It's easy to keep blaming ball delivery, but for example, I noticed Roo quite a few times in games, running under the ball which was being kicked to him..his opponents seemed to be able to read the flight of the ball much better and took possession..it looks like poor delivery, but it's not always the case. .

I can't really follow this...


If Roo has time to "run under the ball"...then to actually mark it it would mean that he has to stop and prop...or lead slowly. In both of these situations it means that his opponent would be able to spoil.

So the kick woul;d still have to bea poor kick....evein if Roo is makinga second error by not adjusting his run.



One of my pet hates is how often you see Saints passing to team-mates so that they have to either remain stationary, or moving very slowly, to mark the ball. Result is that the oppostion can often run in and leap all over them to mark or spoil.



In passing the ball it is very important to kick to advantage.


If you don't have a clear pass so that they can run straight onto it...you then kick where they can have an advantage....whether that be to the right, or left or long..

Take the last Tig Hawks match.
The Tigers full back was instructed to play Buddy from in front.
Result was the Hawks players then just started kicking it longer...to advantage Buddy at the back.


Too many of our passes, when the ball is a contest, are not kicked to the advantage of the St Kilda player. We are skewing the odds our way as much as we should.

[bigcarl]

Its one of the most damning stats in the modern game. Breaking even with inside 50's yet being behind on the scoreboard

it means someone isn't doing their job as well as they might.

either the delivery is poor or the forwards are not making the most of their opportunities.

i suspect our slow, indirect and haphazard delivery doesn't give riewoldt a chance and allows the opposition time to have him well and truly covered by the time the ball gets there.

i'd try riewoldt on the wing and fraser back at full forward but then again my neck isn't on the chopping block if i get it wrong.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

I would like to see Milne gone out of there for good..a real weak link.

In general, I think Milne is plaing some of the best football of his career. His finish has been terrible unfortunately, and that's a problem that is central to the Saints.

The number of times Milne has been contesting for a mark with Reiwoldt or Kosi in support is testament to the bad delivery, not to Milne being a weak link. His workrate, his presentation, and his work on the contested ball have rarely been at the level they have this year. He's made a lot of bad delivery decisions look acceptable.

That said, if you're a forward, finishing opportunities is as important as earning them. With the number of shots he's had, I'd have been expecting him to be pressing Reiwoldt for the team lead in goals.

[starsign]

spert wrote:

I would like to see Milne gone out of there for good..a real weak link.

he was a key figure in getting us back into the game last Sat night, and you would have to can quite a few others on their recent EFFORTS before the little bloke
My juries still out on him , but I think he's definately improving in many aspects of his game. and we know he can snag them so that will come back , and we would have to miss him as I think the Schniderman is the only other one on the list with his goal sneaking skills at present, and he has got sus hammies....ask Sydney!

[vacuous space]

In general, I think Milne is plaing some of the best football of his career. His finish has been terrible unfortunately, and that's a problem that is central to the Saints.

He seems to have improved on his tackling and he's been winning the ball at ground level. I agree that his general play is probably the best we've seen from him - at least since 2005. His disposal though has been bad enough that we have to consider dropping him. Right now he's a liability with the ball. his efficiency was 36% last weekend and is only 51% for the year. At the very least, somebody has to work with him on his mechanics. He's getting no drive out of his kicks and he seems to have no control either. If he plays, it's got to be close to goal.

[Badlands]

Anyone on the forum old enough to recall the night he kicked 11 goals straight against the Lions? I pose the question because it feels like decades ago...