Riewldt - very interesting..

[bobmurray]

GT wouldnt no shyte anymore in regards to the St Kilda football club

Just another GT monday spray to get the headlines come Monday night

How would GT know what RL wants the club to do in regards to the game plan absolutley stuff all.

Cluthcing at straws once again GT

GT is still friends with certain Saints players,he probably knows more about what the coaching staff are trying to do than we do......

Teamwise something is clearly not working and if this keeps up we may battle to finish above West Coast and they have already conceded their season is shot,where ever the real truth in that concession lies,maybe it's motivational.....

[Teflon]

I think it's just that our players are actually pretty crap in the skills department that brings us undone. Goddard and Harvey (and Dal when he gets it) are the only blokes I don't cringe about going forward and delivering into our forward line. Gram should be banned from approaching the 50m arc until he can kick a ball straight, as should Blake. Maxxy knows his capabilities, and plays within them most of the time. Others could learn to do the same.

Yep.

We IMO have overrated some of our players and not based many of them on SKILL levels which are shoddy.

Fiora has extended his career on his supposed "super" foot skills - but he along with Gram this year have been deplorable. Blakes a liability, Jones gets it...then mureders it, Ball cant kick 30, Max....at least handballs a llot, Maguire bombs away, Hayes misses to many targets for his lofty standards (and he one of our better ones), Leigh Fisher????.....I mean it goes on and I havent mentioned Rix yet..

F@rk me we really need a lot skill wise going our way on a given day (or opposition that put little pressure on..)

[saintsRrising]

GT is still friends with certain Saints players,he probably knows more about what the coaching staff are trying to do than we do......

.....

If any St Kilda player is leaking details of the gameplan or other football intelligence to a media person such as GT they should be kicked up the arse severely.

I could not imagine a much lower act...


What roo said however contradicted what GT said....and Roo stated that he did not talk with GT about such matters....and nor should he.

Gt is not just an ex-coach....but makes his living by discussing football including the Saints....and often bagging us.

[Bernard Shakey]

Forget the gameplan.

Whatever it is the coaches obviously cannot get the players to adhere to it.

You can't change the playing list and the coaches are ultimately responsible.

[Saint Mik]

Our players would not risk our game plan with GT because of the way he presents himself in the media.

If they do it is no wonder they cant follow instructions

ROO and Browny own a pub together do you think they let each other know about game plans, the same would be said about ALL people in the media, there is no way GT would no shyte anymore about our game planit is to risky RL would make sure of that.

Anyway GT is saying we cant play the game RL wants us to because we are an attacking stlye playing list but then ROO says we have a attacking game plan so why cant we play to it?

[bigcarl]

Anyway GT is saying we cant play the game RL wants us to because we are an attacking stlye playing list but then ROO says we have a attacking game plan so why cant we play to it?

perhaps we can't do all the running the basketball-style game we play requires.

gehrig, for one, can't and it appears to have cost him his spot in the team.

this is a shame, imo, as he's been our most reliable avenue to goal for many years.

[Teflon]

Forget the gameplan.

Whatever it is the coaches obviously cannot get the players to adhere to it.

You can't change the playing list and the coaches are ultimately responsible.

Why?

If thats where your problem is why not?

People will now put on their "life was simpler under all-attack Grant" and I agree it was.......until they forget h hit the "flood" wall and coudnt get round it and he himslef DIDNT have the players with the basic skills to hit up a target under flood pressure the way Geelong going fwd do??

So we chuck out another coach and hope a list with Rix, Blake, Jones et al will get us there in Sept???

Changes are required whether many like it or not.

[chook23]

Forget the gameplan.

Whatever it is the coaches obviously cannot get the players to adhere to it.

You can't change the playing list and the coaches are ultimately responsible.

????

In season yes only those listed

Turn em over(season end) until you get the players with the ability(natural) willing and wanting and burning desire to improve....etc

it is player ability and sustainability under pressure that is the problem.......not the coaches demanding to adhere to it ........that is a given.

[bobmurray]

I still think GT knows exactly whats going on,he's not going to repeat what he learns verbatim ,not when he can be more subtle than that and still get a reaction.....

He can see the difference in the way they are playing now in comparison to the way they played when he was coach,he didn't have them all running from one end of the ground to the other............

He had forwards who stayed forward and kicked goals,sure he made his mistakes but he did a lot right at least for a couple of years,i'm sure he learnt how to analyse a game in his time as coach...

Somebody talks to him...for sure.....

[Bernard Shakey]

I am not suggesting a change of Head Coach. Maybe he needs better support coaches.

We have a list of 45 or thereabouts, how many do you think we can turnover and how long will it be till we have the right list.

Most pundits and even I believe we have the list to win a premiership.

It is up to the Football Department, including coaches to bring this about.

[Teflon]

I still think GT knows exactly whats going on,he's not going to repeat what he learns verbatim ,not when he can be more subtle than that and still get a reaction.....

He can see the difference in the way they are playing now in comparison to the way they played when he was coach,he didn't have them all running from one end of the ground to the other............

He had forwards who stayed forward and kicked goals,sure he made his mistakes but he did a lot right at least for a couple of years,i'm sure he learnt how to analyse a game in his time as coach...

Somebody talks to him...for sure.....

I dont. Media whore.

[The_Dud]

Dud the first half last weekend is not the coaches fault its the players IMO.

the coach decides whether to man up lose men or not, Ross was obviously happier allowing them to play a spare man back so we could also

we allow teams to do this week in week out, and all it does is clog up our forward line and allow the opposition team to hurt us on the rebound

this is my number 1 problem with our current gameplan

and still no one has informed me of a possible reason why Ross allowed Roo to be double and triple teamed for most of Saturday night..?

if it is that easy (solved in a couple of seconds)

maybe dumb decisions by players.......

but the game plan is kick it to roo under any circumstance..........yeah right!!

i can solve it right now

MAN HIM UP THEIR SPARE MEN

and if u don't want to clog up our forward, then play our spare man just outside 50 or across the centre

get the ball in the backline, kick it to our man on his own, he runs 20-30 meters inside 50 and bang, goal (or shot on goal at least)

and we went into last weeks game 1 big man short, which i'd say its partly the coach's fault

So if every player comes out and tells you that the 'gameplan' is an attacking one, you are going to disbelieve them all.
They will all be lying becuae you know better?
Just wanted to be sure I'm not mistaken on your position?

Our Club Captain just went on national TV and said what you (and many others on here) have been saying about our 'gameplan' is inaccurate and your response is, you know you're correct and no player will tell you what is really going on?

That would make Roo's comments part of the conspiracy by all involved at the Club?

Forget about sacking the Coach, We should sack everyone at the Club from the President on down because they are obviously all part of this conspiracy and we members are entitled to have our wishes adhered to.

I've read some hysterical nonsense in the past couple of days on here but this one just about takes the cake.

Dud, you're posts are normally much better than this. Please just sit back and think about what you have posted.

You have just intimated that our Captain is a liar and that all players will lie rather than tell us the truth.

i stand by what i said originally

how many preseasons in a row now have we seen Luke Ball (or another member of the team) come out and say "best preseason ever, groin feels great, i'm confident i'm 100% over it" and then he struggles thru as usual, and half way thru the year after its become obvious, he admits he's stiill struggling?

thats just one example

Roo wasn't lying, he was just choosing his words carefuilly, and telling the public what the club wants them to hear, for many reasons, one obviously being to keep heat off the club

again, to think every player comes out and speaks their mind 100% is being naive

and also, when have i been hysterical? when have i come out and said to sack Ross (or anyone else) to solve our problem? the only thing at our club i want to change is our gameplan, and i'm more than happy for Ross to stay and do that. BUT if he is unwilling to admit its not working and refuse to compromise, then he has to go, cos we're just gonna waste to many years on his stubborness

u are the one talking about across the board sackings and conspiracies, so maybe u are the one being hysterical?




and on another point, i do find it hard to believe that the skills of 40 AFL players have simultaneously dropped off so much over the coarse of one pre season......

in 2007 the average points scored across all teams went up by 60 points compared with 2006
in 2007 we scored 200 less points than in 2006

I THINK that the team as a whole are down on confidents, due to the fact that they're playing a gameplan that is not natural to them, or most footballers, and that leads to bad decision making and poor skills

so Ross as the coach has to address this problem



either what i just said is the problem, or Ross is terrible at motivating/managing the players, and he is a one dimensional coach who struggles with a Plan B and is easily out-coached on gameday

i hope its the first

[saintsRrising]

Forget the gameplan.

.

?????

Why.....we have had many pounding the forum of late basically demanding that RL go....for having too defensive a gameplan. The gameplan was held up as the BIG EVIL.....


But now the Captain comes out and says that the gameplan is actually an attacking one BUT the players are not executing it in enough quarters.....it is forget the gameplan?????????????


What happened to all the chapters and verses about the sins of our "defensive" gameplan that many claim were so mainfestly obvious.

A couple of sentences from Roo...and it is forget the gameplan???

[Teflon]

I am not suggesting a change of Head Coach. Maybe he needs better support coaches.

We have a list of 45 or thereabouts, how many do you think we can turnover and how long will it be till we have the right list.

Most pundits and even I believe we have the list to win a premiership.

It is up to the Football Department, including coaches to bring this about.

Id still recon we have to many gaps play list wise for a flag - Id love one for Harvs but 6 rds in its looking shaky...players like Blake (and hes been great for his talent levels IMO), Fiora, Rix, Gwilt, Jones, C Gardiner (?) Im not sure are gonna help to get you near a flag and many of these play seniors regularly....I also have doubts on some "stars" but Ill be called a traitor for the above so I better shut up..Lyon started this last year and I dont reckon hes finished yet.

I do believe Lyon could be better served with some different assistants - I dont think much of Barkers efforts with the fwd line thats for sure...theres no system.

[Rix4eva]

We have a crap list, too many living in the past, thinking we have the same team running around as what we did in 2004.

Aside from the players that are no longer playing, Ball and Maguire are not half the players they were in 2004 and 2005.

Gehrig was the dominant forward in 2004 with 100 goals, he's now a liability and a waste of space

Riewoldt could run around in the forward line with Gehrig and Hamill monstering the opposition, now it's pretty much left up to Riewoldt to somehow monster the opposition by himself, double teamed with SFA for support

Hayes is a few years older, still a gun but imho a bit past his absolute prime and still left to carry the midfield without much support

Hudghton is 30yo not 26yo

Kossie is still promising so much, still waiting

Yet according to some on here, we have a great list and they can't figure out why we are in decline

Fair dinkum, what a bunch of cabbages

Thomas pissed it all up against the wall, stuffed up our recruiting for five years and now we have the consequences of his incompetence, which has set the club back about 4 years

The 2004 and 2005 seasons were a direct result of the amazing influx of players we got in 2000 and 2001

2007, 2008 is a result of our piss poor recruiting and abysmal list development for the last 5 years of his tenure

Lyon wants us to play attacking football but we don't have the cattle, it's that simple, we have too many gop's who are not only slow but have skills that would be more suited to a metropolitan league

We are ordinary, we are slow, we are unskilled, weare the new richmond


The only way forward is to play kids and develop young fresh talent

There is no mileage in playing players such as Blake and Birss for example, they are liabilities and the team will not develop unless new kids get game time

Play McEvoy, Eddy, Geary, Allen, Ferguson

Ferguson would be twice the player L.Fisher is, if given a FAIR DINKUM opportunity and I do mean as a HFF

Just play the kids and see ho they adapt to Lyon's attcking game plan

The biggest problem with Lyon is team selection

The whole game plan nonsense is just that a nonsense, perpetuated by know nothing flogs and GT doll worshippers

Our list is shyte, that's the reason we are in the position we are in

Fair dinkum, some of the laterally challenged numbnuts on here are even more delusional than your average monobrow carltoon supporter, quite possibly as into inflatables as much as your regular filth supporter, about as clued in as a theatre going sydney supporter and definitely rivalling richmond supporters when it comes to spitting the dummy

FAIR DINKUM

[bobmurray]

We have a crap list, too many living in the past, thinking we have the same team running around as what we did in 2004.

Aside from the players that are no longer playing, Ball and Maguire are not half the players they were in 2004 and 2005.

Gehrig was the dominant forward in 2004 with 100 goals, he's now a liability and a waste of space

Riewoldt could run around in the forward line with Gehrig and Hamill monstering the opposition, now it's pretty much left up to Riewoldt to somehow monster the opposition by himself, double teamed with SFA for support

Hayes is a few years older, still a gun but imho a bit past his absolute prime and still left to carry the midfield without much support

Hudghton is 30yo not 26yo

Kossie is still promising so much, still waiting

Yet according to some on here, we have a great list and they can't figure out why we are in decline

Fair dinkum, what a bunch of cabbages

Thomas pissed it all up against the wall, stuffed up our recruiting for five years and now we have the consequences of his incompetence, which has set the club back about 4 years

The 2004 and 2005 seasons were a direct result of the amazing influx of players we got in 2000 and 2001

2007, 2008 is a result of our piss poor recruiting and abysmal list development from 2004, 2005

Lyon wants us to play attacking football but we don't have the cattle, it's that simple, we have too many gop's who are not only slow but have skills that would be more suited to a metropolitan league

We are ordinary, we are slow, we are unskilled, weare the new richmond


The only way forward is to play kids and develop young fresh talent

There is no mileage in playing players such as Blake and Birss for example, they are liabilities and the team will not develop unless new kids get game time

Play McEvoy, Eddy, Geary, Allen, Ferguson

Ferguson would be twice the player L.Fisher is, if given a FAIR DINKUM opportunity and I do mean as a HFF

Just play the kids and see ho they adapt to Lyon's attcking game plan

The biggest problem with Lyon is team selection

The whole game plan nonsense is just that a nonsense, perpetuated by know nothing flogs and GT doll worshippers

Our list is shyte, that's the reason we are in the position we are in

Fair dinkum, some of the laterally challenged numbnuts on here are even more delusional than your average monobrow carltoon supporter, quite possibly as into inflatables as much as your regular filth supporter, about as clued in as a theatre going sydney supporter and definitely rivalling richmond supporters when it comes to spitting the dummy

FAIR DINKUM

Welcome back andrew......you certainly have a thing for Rix,i'm trying to work out who was the better player,Rix or Cowie.....

[The_Dud]

Rix4eva, to sum it up......

thats all i can say

[chook23]

Rix4eva, to sum it up......

thats all i can say

unique way as usual

but a lot of points close to the mark.

[matrix]

jesus christ here we go

why are players being picked each week if they cant follow simple coaching instructions then?

something smells like fish.....

[The_Dud]

Rix4eva, to sum it up......

thats all i can say

unique way as usual

but a lot of points close to the mark.

i think i made my opinion clear early

the skills of the whole list of a AFL Football club don't simultaneously dramatically drop off over the coarse of one preseason

confidents is down, therefore all other skills are down

and another thing, i'm sick of people saying "we must rebuild, we must rebuild!"

we DID rebuild, and we ended up with this list, and now were there, u want us to rebuild and start all over again?!?!?!

ridiculous

[BAM! (shhhh)]

If the Saints regularly do no play as instructed, that's at least as big a concern as any around the actual gameplan. Plans that aren't followed have a funny habit of not working.

It's a bit of a cop out really to say the only times they're playing to plan are times like the 1st quarter against the dogs (smashed them in the middle, hit tall targets with accurate kicks) or 1st quarter v Geelong (smashed them in the middle, won contested ball all over the ground)... sometimes you're going to have great quarters that would make the worst coach in the world look good, and sometimes you'll have bad ones that make the best look bad. The plan is to win? Duh...

If they're not playing as instructed, why not? What instructions are they not following ("attack" is a little vague...)? Why aren't they following those instructions?

It worries me that the captain of our club defends the coach by saying they don't follow the coaches instructions...

[mischa]

confidents is down, therefore all other skills are down

and another thing, i'm sick of people saying "we must rebuild, we must rebuild!"

we DID rebuild, and we ended up with this list, and now were there, u want us to rebuild and start all over again?!?!?!

ridiculous

Good point. Clearly RL and the coaching staff don't think we're in rebuilding mode-otherwise why top up with King, Gardiner, Schneider, C.Gardiner etc. And why keep Harves & Max?

[Saints43]

Is it possible that the game plan is an attacking one but impossible to implement successfully?

Ross has never done this before remember.

Perhaps it's the plan that looks good on paper rather than the players?

[saintsRrising]

Is it possible that the game plan is an attacking one but impossible to implement successfully?

Ross has never done this before remember.

Perhaps it's the plan that looks good on paper rather than the players?

So the "successful" quarters like the first quarters against the Dogs and Cats were imagined????

Against the Cats we also had 29 scores (goals or behinds).....the highest the Cats have had scored against them since Round 13, 2006 when the Crows had 42 scores.



So no....it is not impossible.

[Saints43]

Is it possible that the game plan is an attacking one but impossible to implement successfully?

Ross has never done this before remember.

Perhaps it's the plan that looks good on paper rather than the players?

So the "successful" quarters like the first quarters against the Dogs and Cats were imagined????

Against the Cats we also had 29 scores (goals or behinds).....the highest the Cats have had scored against them since Round 13, 2006 when the Crows had 42 scores.



So no....it is not impossible.

When I state "implement successfully" this would probably mean for longer than 30 minutes or so.

Fremantle under Neeshem must have successfully executed their game for periods of time - even for four quarters to win games. Would you say that the plan was successful?

I will rephrase question.

Is it possible that the game plan is an attacking one but impossible to implement successfully on a consistent basis?

There is no proof that the St Kilda games plan (we don't even really know what it is - let's be honest) can be implemented successfully on a consistent basis because it hasn't happend so far.