Hypothetical Question!

[Buckets]

A lot has been said on the forum regarding the players and the coach over the last few days. Some believe that we need change others believe that we should just be patient and wait for the results to fall our way.
Well how do you see our team at the present?
Be honest do you believe that :
a) we have a good list to take us deep into the finals with a coach who has the tactics and the gameplan to possibly win us a flag?
b) we have a ok list with a very good coach who will take us as far as possible into the finals?
c) we have a very good list with a mediocre coach who fails to get the best out of the team week in week out?

After that answer, what would you consider to be a pass mark this year?
a) Finals
b) Flag
c) Just miss the finals by a game or %


And finally if the team doesn't reach your pass mark what do you think needs to be done as a consequence for not reaching that satisfactionary mark?

[matrix]

c....Kinda. wont say we have a VERY good list but it seems to be good.
if we dont finish 5th or higher i wouldnt be too impressed.
if we dont play finals footy buckets im afraid id be getting rid of him.

get blighty back

for me the hawks are the favs this year, i think the cats will tire and they have had a couple of close ones recently.
everyone says that anyone can beat anyone on that one final day in september.......all i say is look at port last year.

lets say they make the decision to get rid of the coach.
as much as i dont rate him, we'll be back to square one and prob get some other twat to take the job and be right back where we started.
as much as it pisses people off our most successful recent coach was GT, and even then i never rated him much cop either.

do u know how many times i here from bloody crows and power fans that we have one of the best lists in the comp but we play such a crap brand /style of footy?....every friggin week.

no finals this year=not good enough.

[saint66au]

ABSOLUTE bare minimum is Top 8..which is where we are at the moment I reckon. Anything less is a major step back. recruiting was great, preseason fitness best for years...12 months to get the game plan sorted..no excuses

Any finals finish less less than Top 4 is treading water imho...for the above reasons.

[Buckets]

ABSOLUTE bare minimum is Top 8..which is where we are at the moment I reckon. Anything less is a major step back. recruiting was great, preseason fitness best for years...12 months to get the game plan sorted..no excuses

Any finals finish less less than Top 4 is treading water imho...for the above reasons.

Agree totally with that.
I honestly believe that we have a very good team, not sure about the coach at the moment but anything less than finals is a disaster! For me not being close to Top 4 is not good enough, however top 8 would be a pass at this stage.

[matrix]

really, all we have to do is be in the 8 after round 22.
then play some decent footy, and we have a sniff.

at the moment we have a runny nose.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

i believe we have a good team and i believe we have some great players but i also see we have become stagnate and predictable . our list is filled with players who at the moment for one reason or the other lack excitement spontinaity (sp?) and flair . maybe a change to cutt away the non essential and replace them with some youth

[Buckets]

i believe we have a good team and i believe we have some great players but i also see we have become stagnate and predictable . our list is filled with players who at the moment for one reason or the other lack excitement spontinaity (sp?) and flair . maybe a change to cutt away the non essential and replace them with some youth

Who do you suggest are the non essential?
And who is the one who needs to inject excitement and flair?

[SaintWal]

From my point of view, as you are aware, Ross has done some amazing and much needed changes in both recruiting established players and injecting the all important youth factor. As a coach the jury still has to be out.
Pre Season we thought that top 4 was definitely in reach. It seems very far away at the moment.
My concern is that Ross cannot get the fire lit in the belly of the players. The quandry is that he was able to do this in the latter half of last year. It has been interesting listening and reading comments on Lyon in the last few weeks as the Coaching burner is getting well and truly stoked under him.
Lyon has to really look at where we are and where we are headed. If we lose to the Tiges on Saturday I believe our season will be in serious trouble.
I wonder if Lyon has the ability to admit to himself and the playing group that the gameplan is not working. Has he put everything into creating a gameplan that did not suit the players he had at his disposal.
Injuries, once again, are robbing us of truly seeing what Ross wants on the field and I believe that this is probably the only similarity between GT and Ross.
What I would like Ross to do is roll the dice. Give the players back the freedom and decision making that GT empowered them with.
When we were playing at our absolute best in early 2004 we played a near exact copy of Geelongs brand of football. PLayers were committed to each other and had the belief that any job required would be carried out. This belief allowed players to be attacking and run forward off the ball to create opportunities and yes, goals to a potent midfield. Our problem has been that Lyon has entrenched the accountability message so much into them that their natural flare is now being diminshed to Zero. A great example is Nick Dalsanto.

That is in IMO of course.

[plugger66]

From my point of view, as you are aware, Ross has done some amazing and much needed changes in both recruiting established players and injecting the all important youth factor. As a coach the jury still has to be out.
Pre Season we thought that top 4 was definitely in reach. It seems very far away at the moment.
My concern is that Ross cannot get the fire lit in the belly of the players. The quandry is that he was able to do this in the latter half of last year. It has been interesting listening and reading comments on Lyon in the last few weeks as the Coaching burner is getting well and truly stoked under him.
Lyon has to really look at where we are and where we are headed. If we lose to the Tiges on Saturday I believe our season will be in serious trouble.
I wonder if Lyon has the ability to admit to himself and the playing group that the gameplan is not working. Has he put everything into creating a gameplan that did not suit the players he had at his disposal.
Injuries, once again, are robbing us of truly seeing what Ross wants on the field and I believe that this is probably the only similarity between GT and Ross.
What I would like Ross to do is roll the dice. Give the players back the freedom and decision making that GT empowered them with.
When we were playing at our absolute best in early 2004 we played a near exact copy of Geelongs brand of football. PLayers were committed to each other and had the belief that any job required would be carried out. This belief allowed players to be attacking and run forward off the ball to create opportunities and yes, goals to a potent midfield. Our problem has been that Lyon has entrenched the accountability message so much into them that their natural flare is now being diminshed to Zero. A great example is Nick Dalsanto.

That is in IMO of course.

Not sure about amazing job in recruiting and injecting youth and also we have hardly had an injury this year but I do agree with the idea of giving players some freedom just not sure how easy it is to do in a week.

[SaintWal]

Not sure about amazing job in recruiting and injecting youth and also we have hardly had an injury this year but I do agree with the idea of giving players some freedom just not sure how easy it is to do in a week.

Yeah, a bit carried away. I still believe our list has improved under Lyon and that he has tried desperately to get effective ruckmen to the club. When I referred to injuries I directly refer to King and Gardy although GT could list half a side on a good week the poor bugger.

[Buckets]

From my point of view, as you are aware, Ross has done some amazing and much needed changes in both recruiting established players and injecting the all important youth factor. As a coach the jury still has to be out.
Pre Season we thought that top 4 was definitely in reach. It seems very far away at the moment.
My concern is that Ross cannot get the fire lit in the belly of the players. The quandry is that he was able to do this in the latter half of last year. It has been interesting listening and reading comments on Lyon in the last few weeks as the Coaching burner is getting well and truly stoked under him.
Lyon has to really look at where we are and where we are headed. If we lose to the Tiges on Saturday I believe our season will be in serious trouble.
I wonder if Lyon has the ability to admit to himself and the playing group that the gameplan is not working. Has he put everything into creating a gameplan that did not suit the players he had at his disposal.
Injuries, once again, are robbing us of truly seeing what Ross wants on the field and I believe that this is probably the only similarity between GT and Ross.
What I would like Ross to do is roll the dice. Give the players back the freedom and decision making that GT empowered them with.
When we were playing at our absolute best in early 2004 we played a near exact copy of Geelongs brand of football. PLayers were committed to each other and had the belief that any job required would be carried out. This belief allowed players to be attacking and run forward off the ball to create opportunities and yes, goals to a potent midfield. Our problem has been that Lyon has entrenched the accountability message so much into them that their natural flare is now being diminshed to Zero. A great example is Nick Dalsanto.

That is in IMO of course.

Not sure about amazing job in recruiting and injecting youth and also we have hardly had an injury this year but I do agree with the idea of giving players some freedom just not sure how easy it is to do in a week.

I think that is a question that really needs to be looked at and answered very soon. How is it that within the space of 4 years the same core group of players seemlingly are restricted as a result of that well coined phrase of accountability. Until Ross gives the players more freedom on the field i doubt we will ever see that free flowing game that we all loved seeing any time soon.
Oh and Wal was that a sly dig at my Dal comments yesterday at the reception

[SaintWal]

Me, a dig, never.

No mate, just in a moment of reflection it all became clear.

Cheers

[Buckets]

Me, a dig, never.

No mate, just in a moment of reflection it all became clear.

Cheers

Ah! It becomes clearer now! Go Saints!

[Winmarvellous]

d) Slightly above average list with an average coach. Harvey's a year older, the young "guns" of 2-3 years ago have stagnated, if not gone backwards, and our recruits are all injury prone. The gameplan we play is boring and doesn't suit our list, yet will win us enough games to be around the finals come September. Something drastic really has to happen if we're to have say in the race once that happens I'm afraid.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

i believe we have a good team and i believe we have some great players but i also see we have become stagnate and predictable . our list is filled with players who at the moment for one reason or the other lack excitement spontinaity (sp?) and flair . maybe a change to cutt away the non essential and replace them with some youth

Who do you suggest are the non essential?
And who is the one who needs to inject excitement and flair?

you build a club around the likes of Roo
trading players like fiora and blake will only get you players like fiora and blake. at the moment our players are looking stale maybe some fresh faces and fresh values on feild can help that ... as for who im not a recruiter so i wont even try to put names on who should be traded for who

[Otiman]

really, all we have to do is be in the 8 after round 22.
then play some decent footy, and we have a sniff.

at the moment we have a runny nose.

That's just Ross's brain leaking out of his head.

[NoMore]

I think i am with most of u here when i say that i feel we have an above average list and a below average coach. But right now the players do look stale. I know we don't want our players heading to the tribuneral every week but have a look at hawthorn and us in 04-05. You have to be aggressive to win games of football. Our players run scared now. They need to be given freedom.

I also think Ross' style of play can be summed up by the fact that we have L Fisher, Blake and Baker all playing in the one side and in the midfield. The midfield is a place for those who win the footy. Only one of these needs to play. If they can't play in the back line then they should not play.

Anything less than top 4 is totally unacceptable and should result in Ross losing his job. Not just because of results but because of how many members they will lose as a result of the way they play

[matrix]

really, all we have to do is be in the 8 after round 22.
then play some decent footy, and we have a sniff.

at the moment we have a runny nose.

That's just Ross's brain leaking out of his head.

no comment
ill get called a cabbage with a few fair dinkum FFS's thrown in too boot.

[Saints Premiers 2008]

flag..just like it is every year

any players or supporters that think that just making the finals is a pass should leave...