Perspective please

[Mr Magic]

[quote="meher baba"]
However, the second half was a bit of a worry for me: once again, the Rossbot was seriously outcoached on match day. He just doesn't seem to be quick at reading what the opposition are doing and responding accordingly.

......... But surely the role of a coach on match day is to be always on the lookout to counteract the moves of the opposing coach. Does Lyon even try to do this? I'm not sure.

If the Bombers hadn't run out of steam, they might well have run over the top of us in the final quarter: as it was, some of our senior players had to dig deep to secure the win. Given the dominance we had in many parts of the field, this was a poor conclusion to the match.
quote]



MB, I think you're being a bit unfair.

The dominant ruckman on the ground in the first half was King.
We went into the game with only 2 talls up forward and with a very strong reliance on King to hold up for most of the game.

When King went off we had only 2 options - take Kosi from FF leaving only Roo as a 'tall' down there or play Blake in the ruck for an extended period.

It is no coincidence that Hille took over at the centre bounces as soon as King went off (3 minute mark of third?)

Also one of our most effective mids on the night, Dal, went off with injury totally stuffing up the midfield rotations.

Injuries happen to teams all the time, but I was glad to see that the 'older heads' showed some leadership (like Lenny late in the qtr when he refused to give up the ball against 2-3 opponents and eventually won the free kick) and steadied the ship.
After 3/4 time we were again a different team, once the coaches were able to mke the necessary changes and get everybody organized.

I get the feeling your bias against Lyon (Barney the Dinosaur?) is colouring your view of everything, which is a pity becasue you normally have incisive views on most things.

One last thing, how many games have we won against the Dons over the past 20 years, especially by 6 goals? Over that period of time I would think that they have been our worst 'bogey side', with them always finding a way to send us home 'broken-hearted'.

[rodgerfox]

When King went off we had only 2 options - take Kosi from FF leaving only Roo as a 'tall' down there or play Blake in the ruck for an extended period.

It is no coincidence that Hille took over at the centre bounces as soon as King went off (3 minute mark of third?)

Also one of our most effective mids on the night, Dal, went off with injury totally stuffing up the midfield rotations.

Even with that in their 3rd quarter 'fightback', they only had 1 more scoring shot than us.

If we kicked 5 straight to their 6 straight, this thread probably wouldn't exist.

[markp]

I blame RL for us missing so many goals last night, King getting injured, Dal getting hurt, and obviously for the Bombers having a dip for 15 minutes in the 3rd and attempting to capitalize on all these things... oh and the trains being held up.

Frankly, it's a miracle (or at least a fluke) we won.




But seriously, I think while the bad news may be we (still) have a lot of work to do, the good news is we have a lot to work with... Consistency is what's needed most now.

[Red]

You guys over analyse everything. We controlled play for 75% of the time.

Had twice their scoring shots, worked hard for each other. It was fantastic

and I hope their is no abuse of the players this week. What more do you

guys want.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Was a decent win, however it wasn't the most convincing performance. Our forward line seemed to function better, and our forward pressure did improve. However, we should never have taken our foot off the accelerator in the third term, and regardless of that, we should have won by 50+ points given the amount of easy shots we missed. We need to learn how to thrash ordinary teams, as Essendon were tonight if we are to be taken seriously. In fact, we haven't beaten a team by 10 goals since 2006.

Let's be serious, the final scoreline was seriously flattering to Essendon.

Beginning of the 3rd quarter, Essendon put everything into getting their run going, and for a while there I was wondering if we were going to manage to choke... but they ran out of legs and the game reverted to Saints domination. During the 3rd we emptied our forward line, and it didn't work for us, but credit where due, we were trying something, it didn't work, and we tried something else... would have been really nice to see an 80 pt victory, but there's plenty to build off in the victory we got, and it probably is better for this team to have that 3rd qtr as a warning.

Quite apart from the scoreline, what I liked best about that game was:
#1: forward pressure. Made it very tough for the Bombers to get their run going.
#2: Attacking midfield setups. Hayes, Dal, Joey, Ball with a bit of time for Fisher made up most of our centre bounce setups. I noticed Armo, Harvey and X on occasion, but by and large it was the first 4 listed.
#3: Much smarter ball use than we've seen in a while.
#4: We lost the clearances (just) and still dominated.

From a plyer perspective, it's clear how much this team has missed Hayes (another 7 clearances last night) and Goddard (compliments his amazing kicking with vision that leaves me wondering how on earth he saw the play from ground level).

[Teflon]

The negatives:

Milnes 3rd qtr....what in gods name was going on?

I didn't mind most of you post but I just wanted to support Milne here.

Were you at the game or wathcing on TV?

Sure, he cost us 2 goals in the third term with 1 poor decision and 1 poor disposal, however, he was the only, and I mean the only player moving up the ground to create an opportunity.

He had no support and no-one forward of him leading to create a target for him.

He made some mistake, but he was awesome tonight.


Lastly...I'm with joffaboy.

Give me a 6 goal win. I don't need to win by 60 points and I don't care when the last time was that we did it.

Why cant supporters have a discussion without the "your not supporting the boys" rhetoric coming out??? - for gods sake take off the glasses - Milne got dragged in the third and went straight to the phone with Lyon - why?Not cause he "didnt have support" - cause he went into fwd 50, did super well to get the footy and then simply watched his brain melt as he turned it over time and again - I reckon Milne had a hand in at least 3 Bomber goals I saw LIVE from the fence. As Lyon said after the game - they got their goals from rebounding out of our fwd line in the 3rd - why? largely cause Milne handed it back to them on a platter.

Im a Milne fan - infact Im a support "all" the boys fan but we simply have to face up to areas where we stuff up to get better and Milnes 3rd was shocking. His last superb. Against the BEST sides going round they will make you pay.

Sorry but Im not into "whipping myself into a frenzy" after struggling to put away a lowly, Jnr side in Essendon after having double the scoring shots cause I know that wont get the job done against the real sides.

How bout you ? - were you at the game?

[Teflon]

When King went off we had only 2 options - take Kosi from FF leaving only Roo as a 'tall' down there or play Blake in the ruck for an extended period.

It is no coincidence that Hille took over at the centre bounces as soon as King went off (3 minute mark of third?)

Also one of our most effective mids on the night, Dal, went off with injury totally stuffing up the midfield rotations.

Even with that in their 3rd quarter 'fightback', they only had 1 more scoring shot than us.

If we kicked 5 straight to their 6 straight, this thread probably wouldn't exist.

We didnt.

The end.

[Teflon]

You guys over analyse everything. We controlled play for 75% of the time.

Had twice their scoring shots, worked hard for each other. It was fantastic

and I hope their is no abuse of the players this week. What more do you

guys want.

Id take beating Geelong by 16 or so clearances (like we did last week) but somehow not managing to lose by 7 goals??? isnt the idea to benchmark yourself against the best??

We aint playing to have good weeks against the Bombers here - Im sick to death of the "oh well we beat up a bottom side so lets talk up the boys again" Im really starting to think we over hype our players more than any other side....we demi god them after they kick a bag against a Richmond??

A flag is what Im after and as the Voss article suggested (and I agree with) we have the cattle so beating the Bombers is expected.

[Teflon]

However, the second half was a bit of a worry for me: once again, the Rossbot was seriously outcoached on match day. He just doesn't seem to be quick at reading what the opposition are doing and responding accordingly.

......... But surely the role of a coach on match day is to be always on the lookout to counteract the moves of the opposing coach. Does Lyon even try to do this? I'm not sure.

If the Bombers hadn't run out of steam, they might well have run over the top of us in the final quarter: as it was, some of our senior players had to dig deep to secure the win. Given the dominance we had in many parts of the field, this was a poor conclusion to the match.
quote]



MB, I think you're being a bit unfair.


I get the feeling your bias against Lyon (Barney the Dinosaur?) is colouring your view of everything, which is a pity becasue you normally have incisive views on most things.

One last thing, how many games have we won against the Dons over the past 20 years, especially by 6 goals? Over that period of time I would think that they have been our worst 'bogey side', with them always finding a way to send us home 'broken-hearted'.

Good post Magic.

Ridiculous to suggest somehow Lyons was "outcoached" because players made stupid decision in the third and allowed the Bombers rebound goals.

Time to let the bias go MB its starting to become Barks like but without the humour.

[OneEyedSainter77]

Good post Teffers, agree with most of your post. I thought Milney's third quarter was pretty disappointing also but to his credit he came out and played well in the final quarter and helped turn the game back for us.

I don't think that we played badly in the third quarter. We didn't play well, but only because we couldn't run with them. There was a lot of luck going there way with lucky bounces and things and some genuine clangers such as miskicks, poor disposal, lack of teamwork, etc.

Essendon played much better than us. But I still wouldn't say we played badly. Just not as accountable, not as attacking and not as well as the bombers were. Were also at a hug disadvatage with King and Dal injured but that's not my point. Not blaming injuries of it.

We did only play 3 quarters of football, and we must build on that. next week is a VERY important game and if Power are still winless going into that, they will be hungry.

We must be accountable and hard at the football for four quarters next week or we WILL lose.

[saintsRrising]

A win is always a win (except at Aurora Stadium in 2006) and so we should all be happy.

However, the second half was a bit of a worry for me: once again, the Rossbot was seriously outcoached on match day. He just doesn't seem to be quick at reading what the opposition are doing and responding accordingly.

Err...if the Dons had not been freakishly accurate the Saints would have won by 50/60 points...

[Teflon]

I don't think that we played badly in the third quarter. We didn't play well, but only because we couldn't run with them. There was a lot of luck going there way with lucky bounces and things and some genuine clangers such as miskicks, poor disposal, lack of teamwork, etc.

Spot on - Im not picking on Milne Im just looking at the game and saying to myself where could we get that extra 15-20% I reckon we need to hurt top sides.

I agree I actually thought we had it all over them in the 3rd EXCEPT when we went forward...for some weird reason we started to break down across half fwd and they, with speed, rebounded and cut us up a tad. What did annoy me most in the 3rd was time and again watching Hayes/Ball etc win the footy at the stoppage (Hayes is just a freak and so important to us) only to see us lack any system moving into fwd 50. This was from what I could see simply poor decision making...at times Milneys feet went quicker than the grain but in fairness hes that sorta player I spose you take the good with the bad........and his last qtr was excellent. He is so frustrating cause he can read the play, get the ball, and his pressure was great I thought...if only his finish was a tad more consistent..

On the plus our fwd line looked less precitable and we did hurry them up which was great.

[bigcarl]

I agree I actually thought we had it all over them in the 3rd EXCEPT when we went forward ... for some weird reason we started to break down across half fwd and they, with speed, rebounded and cut us up a tad.

that was because king was injured and we had to put kosi in the ruck, so we had only riewoldt as a tall forward.

three might be too many, but one is definitely not enough.

[crowjelly]

three might be too many, but one is definitely not enough.

I've heard the same thing said about a woman's breast! (No offence meant Teflon)

[Teflon]

I agree I actually thought we had it all over them in the 3rd EXCEPT when we went forward ... for some weird reason we started to break down across half fwd and they, with speed, rebounded and cut us up a tad.

that was because king was injured and we had to put kosi in the ruck, so we had only riewoldt as a tall forward.

three might be too many, but one is definitely not enough.

No thats a cop out.

Get the tape out - we turned the ball over with decisions that included not taking the first option. At times we got cute. Not having Kosi up there IMO didnt overly hurt us - it didnt in the last yet we magically got on top?

Could it be that players such as Milney simply used the ballsmarter and better?

Not everything on the field is structure related - most IMO are individual related and thats skills executions and decision making and this to me is why footy is so much above the ears.

[bigcarl]

I agree I actually thought we had it all over them in the 3rd EXCEPT when we went forward ... for some weird reason we started to break down across half fwd and they, with speed, rebounded and cut us up a tad.

that was because king was injured and we had to put kosi in the ruck, so we had only riewoldt as a tall forward.

three might be too many, but one is definitely not enough.

No thats a cop out.

Get the tape out - we turned the ball over with decisions that included not taking the first option. At times we got cute. Not having Kosi up there IMO didnt overly hurt us - it didnt in the last yet we magically got on top?

Could it be that players such as Milney simply used the ballsmarter and better?

Not everything on the field is structure related - most IMO are individual related and thats skills executions and decision making and this to me is why footy is so much above the ears.

have a look at the replay. we missed having another marking option down there in the third quarter. it was back to kick-it-to-roo.

[Teflon]

I agree I actually thought we had it all over them in the 3rd EXCEPT when we went forward ... for some weird reason we started to break down across half fwd and they, with speed, rebounded and cut us up a tad.

that was because king was injured and we had to put kosi in the ruck, so we had only riewoldt as a tall forward.

three might be too many, but one is definitely not enough.

No thats a cop out.

Get the tape out - we turned the ball over with decisions that included not taking the first option. At times we got cute. Not having Kosi up there IMO didnt overly hurt us - it didnt in the last yet we magically got on top?

Could it be that players such as Milney simply used the ballsmarter and better?

Not everything on the field is structure related - most IMO are individual related and thats skills executions and decision making and this to me is why footy is so much above the ears.

have a look at the replay. we missed having another marking option down there in the third quarter. it was back to kick-it-to-roo.

Bugger all to do with it. Milne didnt kick it to Roo - never got near kicking it to Roo actually he either missed ALL targets or turned himslef into trouble till he lost the footy.

You seriously telling me Lyon dragged Milne from the field - got him on the phone all because Kosi wasnt down there anymore???

Grab the tape.

[bigcarl]

Grab the tape.

all right, i will have another look, but i doubt it's going to change my diagnosis of what was going wrong.

[Broodruff]

Milne had a great game, but a terrible 3rd Quarter...

You say that "good teams make you pay"
Each time Milne stuffed up, Bombers kicked a goal, 6 points... How is a good team going to make you pay more than 6 points for one turnover

All jokes aside. Milne did stuff it up a few times, however, I would much rather Milne play a game like he did on Friday: Stuff it up a few times, but overall, play an exceptional game.
As opposed to what some people have been screaming out against: Milne being a player who goes missing.

Full Kudos to Milne, he tried his absoloute heart out: It didnt come off each and every time. But it came off a lot more than it didnt. He had his hand in a handfull of goals.

[crowjelly]

Part of Milney's problem is that he tries to stamp his style on most of his disposals - the look away handball, across the body snap, outside of the boot set shot for goal.

He just needs to stick with the basics and go with the team game-plan.

[Broodruff]

Part of Milney's problem is that he tries to stamp his style on most of his disposals - the look away handball, across the body snap, outside of the boot set shot for goal.

He just needs to stick with the basics and go with the team game-plan.

He tried that for much of the first half. He was always. ALWAYS looking for a team-mate rather than a goal. Many of these times it resulted in a turnover beacuse he was thinking too often.

If he plays with the intensity he did Friday night, let the man do what comes to him instictivley. He'll kick more goals than he has scored against him due to bad disposal.

In a perfect world, he wouldn't ever turn it over. Milne isnt perfect, Roo isnt perfect. Harvey isnt perfect.

Again: If he plays with the same intensity that he did on Friday night, let him do what comes naturally to him. In games gone by, where he has just lingered around and not done much, then, then I'll shut my trap

[Teflon]

Milne had a great game, but a terrible 3rd Quarter...

You say that "good teams make you pay"
Each time Milne stuffed up, Bombers kicked a goal, 6 points... How is a good team going to make you pay more than 6 points for one turnover

All jokes aside. Milne did stuff it up a few times, however, I would much rather Milne play a game like he did on Friday: Stuff it up a few times, but overall, play an exceptional game.
As opposed to what some people have been screaming out against: Milne being a player who goes missing.

Full Kudos to Milne, he tried his absoloute heart out: It didnt come off each and every time. But it came off a lot more than it didnt. He had his hand in a handfull of goals.

Milne to his credit got his game back on track in the last - the coach thought he was deplolrable in the 3rd and told him. Again its not about Milne but hes a fair barometer for how we performed overall.

All sides get 6 pts for a goal. Good sides kick more than poor sides - and make you pay more often.

We had the same inside 50's as Geelong,won clearances by 16 and lost by close to 7 goals. Good sides take ALL their chances - they dont turn the footy over for easy goals or miss simple shots 20 mtrs out.

[markp]

three might be too many, but one is definitely not enough.

I've heard the same thing said about a woman's breast! (No offence meant Teflon)

They say that's what Martini's have in common with breasts too....