Lack of depth

[plugger66]

Everyone was excited at the start of the season with our depth. At the time I said that depth always looks better when you are winning.

This week our emergencies are Birss, rix and jimmy. To me that is a lack of depth. We have 2-3 injuries at the most and nearly every club would have that many. We have players in the side who may not be up to it.

I would go so far to say that our depth now is worse than 2-3 years ago. This is not a pro or anti GT thread just pointing out that we still managed to win games back then when we had many more injuries than we have now.

How do people feel about our depth after a couple of losses.

[rodgerfox]

Everyone was excyed at the start of the season with our depth. At the time I said that depth always looks better when you are winning.

This week our emergencies are Birss, rix and jimmy. To me that is a lack of depth. We have 2-3 injuries at the most and nearly every club would have that many. We have players in the side who may not be up to it.

I would go so far to say that our depth know is worse than 2-3 years ago. This is not a pro anti GT thread just pointing out that we still managed to win games back then when we had many more injuries than we have now.

How do people feel about our depth after a couple of losses.

The same as I did during the pre-season - we cut deadwood and picked up rejects in their place.

I couldn't understand the hype about our supposed new found depth.

When we had no injuries, our depth was never tested. Very similar to Geelong last year. All the talk about their great depth was a bit wierd considering it hadn't been tested out sa they never lost enough key players.


Your point about us still winning games in the past whilst we had injuries is something that is so often forgotten when our depth was, and still does get bagged.

How can you win 14 games for 2 years straight whilst missing first and second tier player for the majority of the year yet have no depth??

As I've said many times, it's not our depth that is the problem - it's the overrating of our supposed stars.

[Washedup]

Looking at the emergencies you would have to say our depth looks quite thin. We just haven't blooded enough kids in the last 3-4 years mostly due to lack of quality.
How many Rising star noms have we had in the last 3-4 years?
Probably 2, not good enough

[meher baba]

I think we have lost quite a few useful "depth" players in the past couple of years: Peckett, Thommo, Voss, Powell, TS 40. While they all had their limitations, they were all clearly up to AFL standard IMO: perhaps TS 40's skills weren't quite there, but his pace and determination were (I, for one, still miss him quite a lot).

Last year we also had Attard and, while (perhaps unlike Ross Lyon) I would never wish to see a team full of Attards, he was also a backup who was of AFL standard.

Nowadays our key players floating around on the margins of the team are the likes of Jones, Raph, Dempster, Gwilt, Geary, Birss, Rix, C Gardiner, Fiora, etc. With the exception of Raph - who, probably hoping against hope, I believe still has a touch of future star quality about him - I think the jury is well and truly out on whether any of these players are really up to AFL standard.

This situation is the usual result of a big cleanout of players at a club: which is what we had at the end of last year. While many were excited (in my view, and I said it at the time, over excited) about the incredible bargain we got with S King, C Gardiner, A Schneider and S Dempster, the fact remains that these guys were rejects from their previous clubs. As were (for a variety of reasons) M Gardiner and S Birss and, for that matter, Attard.

What really matters is that the likes of Armo, Howard and Allen lift their standard and start knocking on the door of the first team. That would help enormously.

[Washedup]

perhaps TS 40's skills weren't quite there, but his pace and determination were (I, for one, still miss him quite a lot).

That was one of TS 40's good attributes. He had terrific skills by foot.

[Red]

Agreed and TS40 could actually take a mark and kick a goal unlike a

number of our flankers. In saying that you create depth by putting games

into players and our youngsters don't get games so how are they mean't to

contribute when they come into the side. Just look at players like Raph he

has still played less than 40 games and very few in a stretch. He needs to be

told you have 10 games no matter what you do to show you are of Afl

standard. Getting 2 games here and 3 there doesn't cut it.

[meher baba]

Yes, TS40 had a good left foot, but he was a pretty poor judge of play.

But, as I said, I miss him and I think he'd make a strong contribution to the current team. I always thought that Lyon was far too quick to get rid of him, so that we could fulfil Robert Walls's homoerotic fantasies by recruiting M Clark.

[mad saint guy]

Depth is a myth. No club in the AFL can perform like a top 4 side when they're missing 6+ of their best 22.

Funnily enough the teams that win lots of games don't have injuries, and the teams that don't have injuries are always praised for their fantastic depth.

The likes of Byrnes, Tenace, Wojcinski, Enright, Gamble, Hunt, Prismall and Varcoe are all seen as wonderful players who would walk into the best 22 of any other side, but if Geelong lost a chunk of their stars and those guys were relied on to carry the team then Geelong's supposedly fantastic depth would look crap after all.

There should be 25 players considered capable of playing senior footy on a list and the rest should be kids.

[plugger66]

Depth is a myth. No club in the AFL can perform like a top 4 side when they're missing 6+ of their best 22.

Funnily enough the teams that win lots of games don't have injuries, and the teams that don't have injuries are always praised for their fantastic depth.

The likes of Byrnes, Tenace, Wojcinski, Enright, Gamble, Hunt, Prismall and Varcoe are all seen as wonderful players who would walk into the best 22 of any other side, but if Geelong lost a chunk of their stars and those guys were relied on to carry the team then Geelong's supposedly fantastic depth would look crap after all.

There should be 25 players considered capable of playing senior footy on a list and the rest should be kids.

So how is our depth?

[saintsRrising]

Personally I think it is our so called top and middle players who are mainly not delivering this year.

By and large the "depth" players have been ok though Fiora has slipped.

[plugger66]

Personally I think it is our so called top and middle players who are mainly not delivering this year.

By and large the "depth" players have been ok though Fiora has slipped.

But last year Fiora wasnt depth he was a regular. Surely depth is the players who dont get a game unless their is injury or poor form. Is it good that Rix is an emergency considering we have 3 new ruckmen this year.

[fugazi]

Depth is Ok. Look at this week:

Back up mids in Birss, Fiora, Raph Clarke, Geary
Back up Rucks of Rix and McEvoy
Back up defence Gwilt, Ferguson
Back up forwards G-train

All with experience and at least competence to fit in the firsts.

Still Gardiner, Baker and Schneider to add to first team

Attard, Mc Qualter, Eddy, Steven, Allen as further depth or development.

No depth is OK, our stars are the trouble!

[mad saint guy]

So how is our depth?

About the same as most teams. If we lose several players from our best 22 then we're left with a bunch of strugglers in the team. No club has an extra 5 good players waiting in the reserves.

[plugger66]

So how is our depth?

About the same as most teams. If we lose several players from our best 22 then we're left with a bunch of strugglers in the team. No club has an extra 5 good players waiting in the reserves.

No but without major injuries you would hope that Birss, Rix and Gwilt arent our next 3 best. Just dont think we had the depth we thought at the start of the season.

[Otiman]

See my old thread on depth and sustainable success.
http://www.saintsational.com/forum/view ... ight=depth

Our emergencies should really be young blokes.

[Duggie]

Agreed and TS40 could actually take a mark and kick a goal unlike a

number of our flankers. In saying that you create depth by putting games

into players and our youngsters don't get games so how are they mean't to

contribute when they come into the side. Just look at players like Raph he

has still played less than 40 games and very few in a stretch. He needs to be

told you have 10 games no matter what you do to show you are of Afl

standard. Getting 2 games here and 3 there doesn't cut it.

[Otiman]

We also have Gehrig, Fiora, Raph Clarke, Geary, Mini (2 VFL BOG's), Eddy, and Allen available on the sidelines - This is depth on every line.

I think the Emergencies were based on VFL form as well as backup players for guys who may not be 100% (Ferguson playing really well), Rix (Backup ruckman/Tall back to play on Laycock/Hille), and Gwilt has been playing at CHB for the Scorps, and perhaps Goose or Max aren't 100% chance to play (pure speculation).

If TS40 didn't kick that goal against Brisbane, you would all have forgotten him by now.

[Richter]

But last year Fiora wasnt depth he was a regular. Surely depth is the players who dont get a game unless their is injury or poor form. Is it good that Rix is an emergency considering we have 3 new ruckmen this year.

Don't get you here.

King is playing, MG injured and McEvoy not ready. Rix is an acceptable third choice ruckman (maybe could call him 5th choice behind Kosi and Blake too). he was not an acceptable 1st or 2nd choice as he was over the last couple of years.

[Otiman]

Rix is a different player to Kosi and King. He can match up on resting ruckmen, and guys that edge Goose and Max out for height.

I'll stick by my theory that if he had have played in the NAB GF, Tippet wouldn't have kicked any goals.

[Teflon]

we now have 3 ruck options - kos, gards, king not to mention mcevoy/van reehan

we previously had 1

we now have genuine mid options - Geary/Armo and still Eddy to come on and Jack steven looks ok to me but its very early there (Howard looks a waste imo)

Allen will be good as a forward option

C Gardiner is handy - Dempster will be (thought he was ok tonight)

Depth is better than Mark McGough years.

[plugger66]

we now have 3 ruck options - kos, gards, king not to mention mcevoy/van reehan

we previously had 1

we now have genuine mid options - Geary/Armo and still Eddy to come on and Jack steven looks ok to me but its very early there (Howard looks a waste imo)

Allen will be good as a forward option

C Gardiner is handy - Dempster will be (thought he was ok tonight)

Depth is better than Mark McGough years.

Well how did we win games like Adelaide final if there was no depth. We had about 6 very good players out. Much better than the 3 tonight.

[saintsRrising]

Personally I think it is our so called top and middle players who are mainly not delivering this year.

By and large the "depth" players have been ok though Fiora has slipped.

But last year Fiora wasnt depth he was a regular. Surely depth is the players who dont get a game unless their is injury or poor form. Is it good that Rix is an emergency considering we have 3 new ruckmen this year.

Correction..Fiora was depth...he came in as depth and then through an ok (probably good year) he became regular for that year.

Was he a guaranteed selection for most of last year? = no.

However remember that the team last year had massive injuries.


Fior remains a fringe player....= depth.

Good form will see such players play games.....a drop in form will see them out.

[plugger66]

Personally I think it is our so called top and middle players who are mainly not delivering this year.

By and large the "depth" players have been ok though Fiora has slipped.

But last year Fiora wasnt depth he was a regular. Surely depth is the players who dont get a game unless their is injury or poor form. Is it good that Rix is an emergency considering we have 3 new ruckmen this year.

Correction..Fiora was depth...he came in as depth and then through an ok (probably good year) he became regular for that year.

Was he a guaranteed selection for most of last year? = no.

However remember that the team last year had massive injuries.


Fior remains a fringe player....= depth.

Good form will see such players play games.....a drop in form will see them out.

Didnt he play every game. Surely that is not depth but a regular. Was he guaranteed a game no but neither was about 12-14 players. Does that make them depth as well.

[starsign]

Correction..Fiora was depth...he came in as depth and then through an ok (probably good year) he became regular for that year.

my recollection was that he was part of a 3-way trade that was looked at as a direct replacement for the regular left foot winger Heath Black