The Team…as I would do it…and why

[saintsRrising]

Baker Max Geary (or L Fisher)
Sam Goose Goddard
Gram.. Hayes.. Joey
Schneider Kosi Charlie
Milne Roo X


King Dal Ball

M Gardiner Harvey Armo/CJ Gilbert

Kosi is at his best when he is "in motion". It suits his personality and his playing toolbag.

Cooling his heels in a FP or FF for most of the game does not suit him......and nor does that role suit his style of marking.

In motion he can outmark anyone..and bust packs etc.

As a leading FF he is often found out by a good FB.

He can be a follower....but his ruckwork is not good enough to be more thana back up ruckman.


So yes he can float around the ground....as long as the ruckman is on the bench.


Otherwise I would play him as a roving CHF.


Roo at present.....I would play as a FF.


He is actually a fantastic FF with all the tools to kick bags.

He will also then draw the ball to where it should be drawn.

If you want a Roo like role around the ground bring in Charlie who can run and float between HF and HB and providea linking marking target.

As a maxi-mid I have seen little evidence that roo has the ball snaring abilities of Pavlich.

Yes Roo can play wing....but I think as a FF he would be awesome and would be everything AND MORE that GTrain now struggles to be.

It also lessens the load on his sore knee. As a wing his knee would get no respite...and it may be burnt out come finals time.


He is great lead, a fast lead..and a smart lead (Kosi is not).
He is good contested mark. (Kosi is not unless it is a leaping pack mark)
He knows how to use his body in a marking contest (Kosi does not).

Closer to goal Roo is not a bad kick at goal.

Roo at FF also opens up the possibilty at times of a Pagans Paddock scenario....where when the forward line has flooded back...that Roo suddenly dashes back when we get the ball. He will outrun most full backs.

Imagine if there is empty sapce...and Gram or BJ get the ball and kick it for roo to run onto...[/quote]

Gram. Opposition coaches of good teams have worked him out. They deny him the space to run into and give him forward match ups to exploit his very poor defensive skills.

Time for Gram to take over the role of Fiora as our linking mid in the midfield to half forward where Gram can make better use of his pace and run.

Gilbert to become the king of swing and be thrown forward and back as match demad. But also to unsettle oppostion back set ups.


Armo/CJ... our midfield needs something else. CJ aggression and tackling is fantastic. Whereas Armo promuses to be our next generation mid. Both should get games...sometimes togeather, but if everyone is avaialble one may get squeezed out (though X lift your game or it may be you!!!!).

X..to play in forward line and midfield. In the forward line his tackling and run will help to apply forward pressure.

Speaking of this this is why I am only playing a 2-tall structure in the forward line and not three. Having the extra small or medium provides greater run in the forward line....and importantly this means more midfield support too.

I am also of the view that 3 talls when two are lumberers tends to all make the forward line crowded with two talls often running to the sames spots. At present for mine we have 3 talls generating the effective output of two...which means that we are effectively playing one short. I would use this extra position witha small or medium player instead.

Sorry GTrain....but this may mean it is time to hang up the boots.

Sam and BJ. Both are SMART players..something we lack. When we get both back on the flank we will generate enormous DAMAGING drive out of our backline.

Dependng on match ups will see whether Gilbert the swingman comes back or whether two small in Gery?Lfisher and Baker run around down there.

Baker will at times be given tagging briefs in the midfield.

Ball He is running better...but kicking still lacks pentrating. Bally is also hard as nails and so his role is Mr Grunt in the midfield..to do all the hard in and under stuff..to block for Dal etc....to dish it off to our midfield runners. Expect more head bandages. He can occassionlly rest in the FP to use his marking skills to expoit the right match up. Gram needs to become Balls mate feeding off him and then running off him breaking the lines.


Rucks Do i need to say anything?? King and Gardiner, King Gee is our ideal combination if we can keep them on the park. However even with only one of them we havea good first ruck...with two we havea very good ruck divission that few can match. when one is out Kosi will need to relieve.


The above :
*makes our forward line more mobile
*should achieve more forward pressure
*provides more midfield support and rotation
*puts players in postions better suited to their strengths





Now all the above is positional stuff...which is all well and good. However what really matters is the HUNGER that our players have. I fear that post streak too many of then do not burn each and every game for success the way that Banger and Roo radiate through every fibre of their being.


I posted early last year that RL's biggest challenge would be extracting a good workrate from our players...and for mine this remains the most important hurdle that he must overcome.

Playing at 100% for a quarter here, or a half there is no way to be a truly successful team.

Sure all teams have ebbs and flows...but we have too many ebbs.

Our best is too far above our average.

At times the Saints can look sublime , but too often they go AWOL with poor intensity and application.

The way some of players line up at goal for example is often shoddy and casual in the extreme. You can tell they are going to kick a point before they have even swung their leg.

[barks4eva]

Baker Max Geary (or L Fisher)
Sam Goose Goddard
Gram.. Hayes.. Joey
Schneider Kosi Charlie
Milne Roo X


King Dal Ball

M Gardiner Harvey Armo/CJ Gilbert

IMHO, this is most definitely a much better team selection than the garbage that Ross Lyon has been dishing up.


Definitely Armo ahead of CJ, no need for any ambiguity there

I'd be happy to see how this goes


most definitely better than rotating one sided, unskilled players like Blake, Fiora and L.Fisher around the midfield, I mean FAIR DINKUM, what on earth is Lyon thinking



Gr8 post sRr

[Spinner]

OK, that post was way too long for me to read. So i'll just post my team.


FB: L Fisher, F Gehrig, S Gilbert
HB: M Maguire, S Fisher, X Clarke
C: N Riewoldt, L Ball, J Gram
HF: M Ferguson, B Goddard, J Montagna
FF: R Clarke, J Koschiztke, A Schneider
R: M Gardiner, L Hayes, S Baker
INT: R Harvey, D Armitage, S King, N Dal Santo

Now before people dig in lets clear up some reasoning. We would win if we lined up like this, because it is so different from previous years, no opposition coach would know what the hell is going on.

1) Our starting six forwards are as equally talented as each other. No stand out. This is what I discovered about Geelong, each one of there forwards was as dangerous as the other. Allowing unpredictability, and also creating opportunities for midfielder's to run in unexpected and snag goals.

2) No Milne, Blake, Fiora and L Fisher is only there my necessity. Fiora would be my first emergency. Had him in there, until I realized i had forgotten Harvey.

3) Gehrig playing on Hawkins rather than sitting on the bench would have done wonders for our defense. Allowing players like S Fisher to be less "very tall forward" conscious and run off making space.

4) Goddard CHF. It just works on so many levels. Pavlich mould.

5) Baker to tag the best midfielder each week. Full time.

6) Gram into the middle. Looks so dangerous when running forward of the centre.

7) Kosi Full Forward, because we all know he can.

8) Upon viewing after posting...Just look at the evenness on all levels of the team in regards to star talls. Its absolutely breathtaking.



This team provides an evenness around the ground. Eliminates our obvious forward targets and increases efficiency which would hopefully lead to more goals.

Thoughts?

[Dan Warna]

cj had a good game against Geelong.

there I said it

[markp]

cj had a good game against Geelong.

there I said it

I like CJ too...

Brave, quick and keen.

[Sainter_Boy]

Has anyone considered CJ for the backpocket in the above team instead of L Fisher - The kid would rather bleed than let his opposition get a cheap kick!!!! - Disposal may let him down but G&D is what we need

Or Goose in the Back Pocket and CJ flying off the HB line

Maybe Roo at FF and BJ on the wing - Kosi at CHF

And Max has to be in!!!

FB: M Maguire, M Hughton, S Gilbert
HB: C Jones, S Fisher, X Clarke
C: B Goddard, L Ball, J Gram
HF: M Ferguson, J Koschiztke, J Montagna
FF: R Clarke, N Riewoldt, A Schneider
R: M Gardiner, L Hayes, S Baker
INT: R Harvey, D Armitage, S King, N Dal Santo

[Armoooo]

Great post sRr, you're on the money as usual.

I would love to see us go with that lineup (with Geary and Armo over Fisher and CJ)

Charlie could be so valuble for us this season I don't understand why he is not in the team to relieve Roo from his respoonsiblity of linkman.

While the forward line we currently have looks great on paper it is just not working and the changes have to be made, I would also like to see Gilbert spend more time up forward then down back.

The main issues still appear to me to be confidence, fitness and accuracy, with that lineup and some work in those issues we can take on Geelong...

[terry smith rules]

FB: L Fisher, F Gehrig, S Gilbert
HB: M Maguire, S Fisher, X Clarke
C: N Riewoldt, L Ball, J Gram
HF: M Ferguson, B Goddard, J Montagna
FF: R Clarke, J Koschiztke, A Schneider
R: M Gardiner, L Hayes, S Baker
INT: R Harvey, D Armitage, S King, N Dal Santo

8) Upon viewing after posting...Just look at the evenness on all levels of the team in regards to star talls. Its absolutely breathtaking.


Thoughts?

oh it's breath taking alright!!!!!!!!!!!!!! so much thought!!!!!!!!!!

Milne 9 goals in 4 games from your small forward doesn't do it for you, plus several assists. not sure what you are looking for

Ferguson , seems to have been hyped in this last few days as if he is the prodigal son, realistically he is about 26 -28 on the list

I won't go there with Blake and Fiora because there is enough discussion already

Fraser at full back, sorry at the moment I walk faster than he runs, he would be absolutely smashed by most forward lines and I take it Max is out injured because surely he still gets a start.

[Russman]

Baker Max Geary (or L Fisher)
Sam Goose Goddard
Gram.. Hayes.. Joey
Schneider Kosi Charlie
Milne Roo X


King Dal Ball

M Gardiner Harvey Armo/CJ Gilbert

I love the look of that team saintsRrising.
Just to add to your comments:
I've always preferred Dal in the middle and pushing up forward.
Although he has great disposal , I feel he is wasted constantly picking up possessions across the hb line.

[OneEyedSainter77]

Hammer. nail. head. SrR. Forget all the crap about gameplan

This is what needs tpo be done. A real shake up. Fiora, Blake and co, as maligned as they are and as much as I want them to do well, i can't stick up for them anymore. they simply are not up to it and they must be dropped. They can get back in, but they have to prove their worth when and if they do.

Gehrig is too lazy. he doesn't present anymore. He doesn't even act as a decoy. He just stands there and lumbers towards the ball like a big carpet snake.

Roo at FF may be the smartest thing I have ever heard of. We need him in our forward line. he is great in the backline, yes. but we REALLY need him up forward. he is not as bad at kicking goals as everyone makes him out to be although he doesn often miss the important ones. But playing him closer to goal. That miught just work.

I don't agree with your "Kosi doesn't take contested marks" because I think he actually throws himself into packs with reckless abandon - but I agree with him at CHF, because he can use his size and agility to his advantage there. But, if he is to move to CHF, he must, must, MUST improve his goalkicking. I think it is a confidence thing with Kosi. he needs to be a bit more confident on kciking goals and try not to boot the hell out of it. I think though that he is one of the best contested marks in the game.

Also agree with the above poster that Dal should be in centre and hayes should be the other follower for mine.

And the rest of your post is spot on.

great post!

[sax]

This Is what I'd like to see.
B: Maguire, Hudghton, Baker
HB: X. Clarke, Riewoldt, S. Fisher
C: Montagna, Hayes, Gram
HF: C. Gardiner, Koschitzke, Schneider
F: Milne, Gehrig, Goddard
R: King, Dal Santo, Ball
Int: M. Gardiner, Harvey, 2 of either Dempster/Gilbert/Jones/Armitage/Geary

Charlie could play Roo's lead up roll, Strengthens our defence.
We still lack pace though!
Goddard adds a little more versatility to the forward line, but can be swung down back if needed.

[The_Dud]

i find it funny some of the absolutely ridiculous positions some posters place players in

i don't know if they think it makes them look clever or intelligent by throwing up some completely whacky idea and then trying to justify it on paper, but in reality it would never work/happen

[Spinner]

i find it funny some of the absolutely ridiculous positions some posters place players in

i don't know if they think it makes them look clever or intelligent by throwing up some completely whacky idea and then trying to justify it on paper, but in reality it would never work/happen

Feel free to provide some examples. That way the 'certain' posters that have put player in 'absolutely ridiculous positions' can actually have a reply to this type of pot shot.

Currently, the way you've structured this post is so ambiguous, you're able to whack other posters thoughts without a) providing your own opinion of it, and b) remaining incognito when posters "me" question your motives.

Feel free to criticize dud, but all in all it just seems all you do is have an opinion on others posters opinions without firstly explaining why and secondly, providing some of your own thoughts as alternatives.

[The_Dud]

i find it funny some of the absolutely ridiculous positions some posters place players in

i don't know if they think it makes them look clever or intelligent by throwing up some completely whacky idea and then trying to justify it on paper, but in reality it would never work/happen

Feel free to provide some examples. That way the 'certain' posters that have put player in 'absolutely ridiculous positions' can actually have a reply to this type of pot shot.

Currently, the way you've structured this post is so ambiguous, you're able to whack other posters thoughts without a) providing your own opinion of it, and b) remaining incognito when posters "me" question your motives.

Feel free to criticize dud, but all in all it just seems all you do is have an opinion on others posters opinions without firstly explaining why and secondly, providing some of your own thoughts as alternatives.

i think i've made my opinion clear over the last week or two

the team set-up is basically right (maybe a few minor tweaks) but the gameplan is the major problem

to be more specific regarding my previous post, i'll give you my opinion on your team

Gehrig at full back? so he's too slow and lazy to play FF, but you'll put him at full back on a 19/20 year old Tom Hawkins

Gilbert in the back pocket, complete waste of his talent, should be played across the middle or forward flank

X Clarke should be played in the centre

Ferguson in the team? i think his reputation has been built up ridiculously in this forum over the last couple of days/weeks

Goddard CHF? plays best rebounding across the backline, and wants to play in the backline. Could occasionally be rotated thru the middle depending how he goes while in there

Montagna should spend all his time in the centre or on the wing

Raph Clarke in the team, and in the forward pocket no less! he is slower than milne, lazier than milne, a worse kick for goal than milne, not as smart as milne.... oh, but he has "potential"

The forward set up should be basically as it is now, only try to have the three big guys in there together as less as possible. at the moment, Kosi should be rotated thru the ruck and forward line, and whenever he is in the forward line, Roo should be played as a roaming wingman, and when he's in the ruck, Roo should be played out of the goalsquare. Gehrig played as a permenant FF

Thats just a quick opinion. The team should work perfectly with a decent gameplan (Geelong, Hawks, Dogs, notice these are the best teams atm). Play man-on-man as much as possible, if they insist on dropping a man back in our forward line, as to not over crowd, our spare man should be placed across the centre, as this would totally negate their spare man.

also a focus on TACKLING and PRESSURING THE BALL CARRIER, which i would have thought was a no brainer

[Spinner]

i find it funny some of the absolutely ridiculous positions some posters place players in

i don't know if they think it makes them look clever or intelligent by throwing up some completely whacky idea and then trying to justify it on paper, but in reality it would never work/happen

Feel free to provide some examples. That way the 'certain' posters that have put player in 'absolutely ridiculous positions' can actually have a reply to this type of pot shot.

Currently, the way you've structured this post is so ambiguous, you're able to whack other posters thoughts without a) providing your own opinion of it, and b) remaining incognito when posters "me" question your motives.

Feel free to criticize dud, but all in all it just seems all you do is have an opinion on others posters opinions without firstly explaining why and secondly, providing some of your own thoughts as alternatives.

i think i've made my opinion clear over the last week or two

the team set-up is basically right (maybe a few minor tweaks) but the gameplan is the major problem

to be more specific regarding my previous post, i'll give you my opinion on your team

Gehrig at full back? so he's too slow and lazy to play FF, but you'll put him at full back on a 19/20 year old Tom Hawkins

Gilbert in the back pocket, complete waste of his talent, should be played across the middle or forward flank

X Clarke should be played in the centre

Ferguson in the team? i think his reputation has been built up ridiculously in this forum over the last couple of days/weeks

Goddard CHF? plays best rebounding across the backline, and wants to play in the backline. Could occasionally be rotated thru the middle depending how he goes while in there

Montagna should spend all his time in the centre or on the wing

Raph Clarke in the team, and in the forward pocket no less! he is slower than milne, lazier than milne, a worse kick for goal than milne, not as smart as milne.... oh, but he has "potential"

The forward set up should be basically as it is now, only try to have the three big guys in there together as less as possible. at the moment, Kosi should be rotated thru the ruck and forward line, and whenever he is in the forward line, Roo should be played as a roaming wingman, and when he's in the ruck, Roo should be played out of the goalsquare. Gehrig played as a permenant FF

Thats just a quick opinion. The team should work perfectly with a decent gameplan (Geelong, Hawks, Dogs, notice these are the best teams atm). Play man-on-man as much as possible, if they insist on dropping a man back in our forward line, as to not over crowd, our spare man should be placed across the centre, as this would totally negate their spare man.

also a focus on TACKLING and PRESSURING THE BALL CARRIER, which i would have thought was a no brainer

Just remember that each one of those are in "your opinion"

I believe Goddard plays his best (in relation to maximum team output) in the forward line. Remember, its not necessarily where players play their best, but in fact where players play their best for the team.

I also believe Gilbert will be one of the best backman in the league post 75, 80 games.

To suggest that the structure is perfect and just the game plan is faulty is pure nonsense. The structure contributes to a game plan. In basic terms, "where players 'play' on the ground influences the type of game plan that can be implemented.

[saintsRrising]

I don't agree with your "Kosi doesn't take contested marks" because I think he actually throws himself into packs with reckless abandon - but I agree with him at CHF, because he can use his size and agility to his advantage there.

I think we are actually agreeing.

I think Kosi is a great pack marker which is a contested mark. He is very good at coming over the top..or bursting through.



But what he is not so good at is the one on one contested mark against a good full back. A good full back tends to get in better positions than Kosi and works him under the ball.

The FB can often take front posi by reading the ball better when Kosi errant hands become better.

CHF's are often kicked to on the burst...this suits Kosi. There are also more gaps for those upfield to kick to....so they can kick to the advantage of Kosi.


With FF's it is often more a cat and mouse game. Timing of the lead anda fast lead are much more important.

The FF needs to lead only where he can still kick goals from. A CHF does not have this as a prime concern.


And another factor....Roo has demonstrated many times that he can also rove a goal. This makes him a lot more dangerous near goals than Kosi who will do it less often than Roo will.



For Kosi...being at CHF will also allow him to drift into the backline at appropriate times to take those great "saving" marks that he is so good at.



This approach to me makes the most of both players strengths and weaknesses.

[cwrcyn]

B: Geary Hudghton S.Fisher
HB: Gram Maguire X.Clarke
C: Goddard Hayes Montagna
HF: Schneider Riewoldt Armitage
F: Milne Koschitzke Gilbert

R: King Ball Dal Santo


Inter: M.Gardiner Baker Harvey L.Fisher

[fingers]

What did people think of Walls' suggestion that we play Roo on the wing like the tigers did with Richo. Allow him to run and use his motor. Also help out in defence and run into the F50.

Could be a nice adjustment.

[terry smith rules]

hey spinner

you still have not replied as to why max is not in your team

[OneEyedSainter77]

Yep, you are right SrR, we do agree. he does sturggle against the fullback which is why i would have him at CHF and Roo at FF in a hearbeat. it makes my heart bleed to leave Fraser out but the truth is he just doesn't seem to have the energy for it anymore. His heart is in it, that's for sure. But he simply doesn't make the effort. Not sure what its down for.

But its all hypothetical anyway because I doubt that Ross wuold change the structure. Something needs to be done though. Deseprate times call for desperate measures. Maybe we arn't that desperate yet. but lose the next two weeks and we will be - and it might be too late by then.

[bigcarl]

What did people think of Walls' suggestion that we play Roo on the wing like the tigers did with Richo. Allow him to run and use his motor. Also help out in defence and run into the F50. Could be a nice adjustment.

i think it is worth a shot and could be the shake-up to structure that we need. riewoldt wing, kosi chf, fraser ff. gilbert and dal to hff.

srr's team has merit, too, as i've no doubt riewoldt would be very effective at full-forward. but i don't think fraser's finished yet and is too good a player not to have on the park.

he deserves at least a couple more weeks. we owe him that much.

scarlett towelled him up last week just as he probably would have done to fevola or most other full forwards in the competition.

[hAyES]

The forward line isn't working because it's not getting in there quick enough. I don't know how many times in the past I've seen the 3 dominate together and now all of a sudden it's no good?

This is my team:

B: Baker Max S.Fisher
HB: Gram Goose Gilbert
C: Dal Joey Goddard
HF: X Roo Schneider
F: Milne Kosi Gehrig

Ruck: King Hayes Ball

Int: Gardiner Harvey Armo Fiora

I'd back us at the stoppages and have our players in attacking positions rather than glued to their man. Back our players one-on-one in the backline or bring the third man up and more importantly, kick goals!

[Spinner]

hey spinner

you still have not replied as to why max is not in your team

Yep, unintentionally left him out.

Replace L Fisher with him....Although that makes up a bit too tall down back.

...Ill work on it.

[hAyES]

hey spinner

you still have not replied as to why max is not in your team

Yep, unintentionally left him out.

Replace L Fisher with him....Although that makes up a bit too tall down back.

...Ill work on it.

Too tall down back? Geelong, who have the best defense in comp have Scarlett, Harley, Egan (when not injured) and Milburn in their backline. Don't see that as much of a problem.

[clarky449]

B- Baker S Fisher L Fisher
HB- Matt M Max H Grammy
C- Riewoldt Hayes Joey
HF- Goddard Kosi Adam Schneider
F- Milne Frase Charlie Gard

King Ball Dal

Bench- Armitage Gardiner X.Clarke Gilbert Ofcourse Baker and gardiner arent playing