Our star-studded midfield lacks intensity!

[steph]

We all (inlcuding Ross) know by now that last nights loss was a direct result of being absolutely smashed in the midfield. The midfield is where the game is won and lost. No point is slaggin ur forwards, when they dont get an opportunity to even get near the ball.

Unfortunately, our apparent stars in our midfield are all spectators at the moment. For mine, Lenny is the only one exempt. He's still playin with the right amount of intensity, doesnt take his foot off the pedal. The folowing however, have some issues:

Dal Santo - probably my favourite player, but i dont think he knows what the word intensity means. His form this yr is nowhere near what he is capable of, he MUST start hurting teams. Instead he gets 20 touches a game, all chip kicks or cheap handpasses somewhere near the backline.

Ball - I understand he's in and under, and lays tackles, but its time he started carrying the ball down the field. He spends 80% of the game on his knees.

Joey - Has been a massive frontrunner this year. Opposition coaches have identified him as a threat, he needs to start showing why. We know he's good enough, and can be very damaging, but this year has just gone missing in all 3 games.

X - Shattering to see him play probably the best game of his career last week, and then not able to back it up. We know he can play, but never ever steps up.

Unfortunately, our midfielders are all hoping everyone else gest the job done. We lack ferocity and intensity that is required to mix it with the best. IMO, Gilbo should be given a run in the middle. He's extremely tenacious and could show the senior boys how to go about it. If we wanna be up there with the best, playing 1 qtr of football is just not gonna cut it. We gotta keep that level up for 4 qtrs, and it starts with our midfielders.

[bigcarl]

We all (inlcuding Ross) know by now that last nights loss was a direct result of being absolutely smashed in the midfield. The midfield is where the game is won and lost. No point is slaggin ur forwards, when they dont get an opportunity to even get near the ball.

good call

[plugger66]

We all (inlcuding Ross) know by now that last nights loss was a direct result of being absolutely smashed in the midfield. The midfield is where the game is won and lost. No point is slaggin ur forwards, when they dont get an opportunity to even get near the ball.

good call

That is correct but that is why you need mobile forwards who are good at ground level because the ball doesnt come in perfectly due to oppisition pressure.

[joffaboy]

Our mids are pedestrian and once paced. Have been for years.

[bigcarl]

Gilbo should be given a run in the middle. He's extremely tenacious and could show the senior boys how to go about it.

worth a thought. he is quick enough and no mug when it hits the ground.

[spert]

Eade said before the game that it will be won or lost in the midfield -how true. Our guys no matter how good some think they are, have real defensive problems and also have trouble shaking tags.

[Saintschampions08]

Eade said before the game that it will be won or lost in the midfield -how true. Our guys no matter how good some think they are, have real defensive problems and also have trouble shaking tags.

I think our problem was more so that our entire midfield was tagging their midfield, except they didn't really tag them well enough, so they kinda just picked the ball up when they felt like it.

[bigcarl]

I think our problem was more so that our entire midfield was tagging their midfield.

our guys should have tried to get a kick themselves rather than worrying about what their opponent was doing

[aussiejones]

saints have always been average in PACE !

Recent times Dogs have been the speedsters in the comp.

So it should almost have been expected if they were HOT and our guys thought they had it won..... eased off then too slow to catch them.

We have proved we can bring it right up to other teams . refer pre season CUP.

Ok so perhaps just tweak our team and should be OK for the season.......

[bigcarl]

We all (inlcuding Ross) know by now that last nights loss was a direct result of being absolutely smashed in the midfield.

as mark stevens said in the herald sun said this morning "if you can't get your hands on the pill you're going to struggle to win. the saints had a whopping 88 fewer disposals than the dogs."

[Saintschampions08]

We all (inlcuding Ross) know by now that last nights loss was a direct result of being absolutely smashed in the midfield.

as mark stevens said in the herald sun said this morning "if you can't get your hands on the pill you're going to struggle to win. the saints had a whopping 88 fewer disposals than the dogs."

We play a lower disposal type of game then Geelong and the Dogs do.
We need to have good disposal, so that we score goals from fewer disposals.

[saintjake]

ball - 11 tackles
hayes - 12 tackles.

[eppo67]

Pace is what they lack. They have plenty of intensity right up in the AFL for that. But line breaking foot speed is completely another matter. This was painfully obvious on Friday night.

You are spot on Joffa. Ball, Hayes, Harves and Dal as much as I like and respect highly each one of them they are one paced and have no line breaking afterburning speed.

This will be our big problem this year.

[brown-coat]

ball - 11 tackles
hayes - 12 tackles.

Defensive!

Replace those useless bloody tackles with kicks and we may have gone into the forwardline for goals more often.

Useless bloody chasing slow defensive midfielders.

If we can figure out how to use our slowness to defeat other teams i'll for it. But it doesn't look likely.

[kalsaint]

We all (inlcuding Ross) know by now that last nights loss was a direct result of being absolutely smashed in the midfield. The midfield is where the game is won and lost. No point is slaggin ur forwards, when they dont get an opportunity to even get near the ball.

Unfortunately, our apparent stars in our midfield are all spectators at the moment. For mine, Lenny is the only one exempt. He's still playin with the right amount of intensity, doesnt take his foot off the pedal. The folowing however, have some issues:

Dal Santo - probably my favourite player, but i dont think he knows what the word intensity means. His form this yr is nowhere near what he is capable of, he MUST start hurting teams. Instead he gets 20 touches a game, all chip kicks or cheap handpasses somewhere near the backline.

Ball - I understand he's in and under, and lays tackles, but its time he started carrying the ball down the field. He spends 80% of the game on his knees.

Joey - Has been a massive frontrunner this year. Opposition coaches have identified him as a threat, he needs to start showing why. We know he's good enough, and can be very damaging, but this year has just gone missing in all 3 games.

X - Shattering to see him play probably the best game of his career last week, and then not able to back it up. We know he can play, but never ever steps up.

Unfortunately, our midfielders are all hoping everyone else gest the job done. We lack ferocity and intensity that is required to mix it with the best. IMO, Gilbo should be given a run in the middle. He's extremely tenacious and could show the senior boys how to go about it. If we wanna be up there with the best, playing 1 qtr of football is just not gonna cut it. We gotta keep that level up for 4 qtrs, and it starts with our midfielders.

Good to see BJ back he should lift intensity in the midfield and can deliver the ball well to forwards.

X is showing inconsistency that he needs to work on,

Dal is the Peter Bell of Saints. He is collecting the ball but adding sufficient value with it.

Ball is doing what he does best ie In and Under. Unfortunately he is also not delivering the ball well to provide sufficient value.

Gilbert is best running off half back like Gram. Put either of these in a congested midfield and they dont provide the same value.

[To the top]

The tackle count for Ball and Hayes confirms that the best we did from the mid-field was to force another bounce (as I contributed elsewhere).

The loss of Gardiner hurt, as did the decision to ruck Kosi.

For mine, Ball with his build, is really too small for the in and under role and we need a bigger body under the bounces - someone with the body and the skills to off-load to advantage.

The player I am looking at is Goddard.

Leigh Fisher has the body size and, probably the skills to be the second option but he is only in the centre circle as a tag, as is Blake.

Too often you look at our 4 and see un-productive players in there, and you wonder why we structure that way.

The game is won from the centre clearances yet we seem to be conceding by putting the players in there we are - at least on many occasions - and seemingly seeking to negate players from opposition sides.

We want our best ball winner/s in there with the support from the line breakers who must also have defensive skills and be able to go in for it as necessary.


The other area is the ease with which sides like Footscray pass the ball around in their defensive area, then chip forward and then use one of the spare players from defence who has charged down the flank unopposed.

When the opposition win the ball in our attacking zone we seem to have the one player going from mark to mark, including back to where they came from.

And to add some controversy, I just can not see that we can continue to play Milne because, to be blunt once again, he can not contribute to the mid-field rotations and we can not afford that as the trade off for his 2 goals a game.

Simply, we are not a good enough team to be able to afford Milne in the side.

We need as many mid-field options as we can muster to sit with what should be a key strength - our attacking talls, and particuularly now with King and Gardiner in the side.

And that is one of the reasons I have always discounted Milne's contribution to the team and would not have him in my best 22.

[plugger66]

The tackle count for Ball and Hayes confirms that the best we did from the mid-field was to force another bounce (as I contributed elsewhere).

The loss of Gardiner hurt, as did the decision to ruck Kosi.

For mine, Ball with his build, is really too small for the in and under role and we need a bigger body under the bounces - someone with the body and the skills to off-load to advantage.

The player I am looking at is Goddard.

Leigh Fisher has the body size and, probably the skills to be the second option but he is only in the centre circle as a tag, as is Blake.

Too often you look at our 4 and see un-productive players in there, and you wonder why we structure that way.

The game is won from the centre clearances yet we seem to be conceding by putting the players in there we are - at least on many occasions - and seemingly seeking to negate players from opposition sides.

We want our best ball winner/s in there with the support from the line breakers who must also have defensive skills and be able to go in for it as necessary.


The other area is the ease with which sides like Footscray pass the ball around in their defensive area, then chip forward and then use one of the spare players from defence who has charged down the flank unopposed.

When the opposition win the ball in our attacking zone we seem to have the one player going from mark to mark, including back to where they came from.

And to add some controversy, I just can not see that we can continue to play Milne because, to be blunt once again, he can not contribute to the mid-field rotations and we can not afford that as the trade off for his 2 goals a game.

Simply, we are not a good enough team to be able to afford Milne in the side.

We need as many mid-field options as we can muster to sit with what should be a key strength - our attacking talls, and particuularly now with King and Gardiner in the side.

And that is one of the reasons I have always discounted Milne's contribution to the team and would not have him in my best 22.

And we dont kick enough goals to afford to have Milney out of the team. Averages 2 goals a game. That is good enough for me even if cannot go in the mid. Who will replace his 2 goals as other mids combined are probably not averaging 2 a game.

[satchmo]

Replace those useless bloody tackles with kicks

Why not just replace tackles with goals ? Or better still, Premierships ?

God, it's sooo simple..

[brown-coat]

Replace those useless bloody tackles with kicks

Why not just replace tackles with goals ? Or better still, Premierships ?

God, it's sooo simple..

Exactly..


Faster midfielders who can hit the ball first will be more damaging that slow midfielders who hit the ball last and have to tackle. That's the way i see it. Were Ball and Hayes faster, they could have gotten to contests quicker, racking up potentially devasting kicks into the forwardline instead of "useless courageous" tackles.

[Cairnsman]

I'm not going to even read the posts because I read the word intensity in the subject heading.

CLEARLY WE DON'T HAVE ANY!!!!!!!!

Like I've ranted and raved about in other posts, I wasn't as angry as most saints fans were after the insipid display on Friday night but after watching a few other games since by teams that don't seem to have as much desktop talent as we do but have something else...determination, competitiveness, hardness, attackers of the ball, runners for the forward line, whatever...but yes it probably all rolls up into the word intensity...

St Kilda players should wake the hell up and get on the bus.

[To the top]

Plugger 66, Milne is a liability.

You say he brings 2 goals a game.

Well, if we have to rely on Milne's 2 goals a game we are stuffed, and whilst he maintains his goal kicking position in the side to contribute those 2 goals as his sum of contribution we remain stuffed.

Can I remind you that Ball kicked 2 against Footscray - and I would much prefer Ball up forward because of what he brings to the team.

I have said before that when Milne kicked his eleven against Brisbane, Ball kicked 4 and was much more impressive when playing forward than was Milne. Ditto last Friday night.

My preference is that we throw in an Armitage and rotate mid-fielders including Ball forward instead of marking Milne's long term average of 2 goals a game in the book.

Simply, Milne can be too easily negated and has no other tricks in the bag.

Schnieder, whilst looking totally stuffed when coming to the bench on Friday, can contribute in the mid-field - therefore he is the option and the variable in increasing the number of mid-fielders in our 22 - and hopefully finding that Armitage or whoever has what it takes.

Because that is where we are at now, expanding and improving our mid-field so that we get more forward opportunity to our key target forwards and so our defence gets more support including by no risk delivery options and then run.

Our defenders with the ball, and that includes all of them and not just R. Clarke who appears the bunny in the headlights with some, were forced to stop, drop back to win space behind the mark and then get called on with hardly an option to go to on far, far too many occasions.

Then forced into risky disposal because options were not available.

Simply, they did not work for each other and the reason has to be explored.

[bobmurray]

Some very good points you are making "To the top" in your above posts.

I'd like to see some changes to the midfield structure for the Geelong game...

I hope Charlie Gardiner gets a game so he can perform against his old team and to provide us with another forward option......

[kalsaint]

Yep,

Some good ideas above.

One thing, despite several (including myself) believing that the mid field is slow, we have to learn how to deal with this situation.

We had a good recent record against the Doggies due to our ability to win the clearances and limit the Doggies effectiveness by just being accountable.

Oh, another thing, we need to show heart and do the team things; ie run hard, talk, protect the ball carrier and provide several options for other team mates so that we can control possession thereby effectively offsetting the strenghts of the opposition (the midfield speed).

Unfortunately, and as Ross indicated, we blew all the above and allowed the buldogs to play their strength.

I told several people at work last week that we are a 30 point better side but to maintain that. I still believe that. We need to play accountable footy and stick to the game plan. Effort is required for that. Unfortunately it deserted us last Friday.