How good was our drafting and trading in 2006/07 ...

[Oh When the Saints]

It is too early to make definitive judgements yet, but IMO our drafting and trading over the last 2 seasons has been sensational, particularly at the end of 2006.

Full credit to John Beveridge for his work in the '06 draft and rookie draft. At this stage, IMO we look like getting at least 7 players out of that draft year who could have decent AFL careers with the Saints.

JB is good at his job.

2006
Main Draft
#9 - David Armitage = looking the goods after getting himself fitter; put in some great performances for the Scorps last year but shows every sign of being a 200-game player for the Saints early in 2008.

#27 - Brad Howard = people were critical because he wasn't a conventional pick and he has been judged from that perspective ever since. Showed some good form for the Scorps last year in a couple of games, and great pace and tackling ability. Still a couple of years away, but certainly has a decent chance of an AFL career.

#43 - Michael Gardiner = didn't get on the park in '07, but has shown he can still compete and ruck pretty well at the highest level during the pre-season comp. On track to play as our #2 ruck in 2008 and do a solid job.
- Shane Birss = struggled early on last year but came good in the second half of the season; played 12 games and showed that his best is pretty good at AFL level. Needs consistency but brings some attributes and very good depth to our midfield.

#59 - Jarryd Allen = impressed in the NAB Cup last year before injuring himself for most of the rest of the season. Missed a lot of development in his first 12 months at the club. However, has shown he can take a good contested mark, is a reliable shot at goal and works hard from half-forward. Signs suggest he will be a good player for us in a couple of years.

Rookie Draft
#9 - Clinton Jones = promoted and played senior football for the Saints in '07 with mixed results. Impressed early with his chasing and tackling but obvious weakness with his kicking. However, seems to have gained confidence and fitness and looks a better player heading into 2008.

#25 - Luke VanRheenen = very raw but several good performances for the Scorps in '07. Struggled when given an opportunity in the NAB Cup this year and shows he has a lot of work to do. However, he's only 19 and he's a ruckman, so anything could happen.

#39 - Robert Eddy = taken the mantle as the fittest bloke at the club and has worked his arse off. Great for Casey last year and probably unlucky to be promoted, but has shown in the NAB Cup that he can handle the pace and pressure of AFL footy. Should be promoted at some stage and play senior footy for the Saints.

#51 - James Wall = gone

#58 - Jarryn Geary = taken next to last in the rookie draft and worked his way onto an AFL senior list in the space of 12 months. Has impressed in the NAB Cup, featuring in the best players, and has all the attributes for a long career with the Saints.

#62 - Jayden Attard = played every game until doing his knee in 2008 and did some great shutdown jobs on pacy opposition forwards. Plenty of determination and good defensive skills. May struggle with the talent in front of him, but more than held his own in the seniors.

[JuanTheSydSainter]

With hindsight JB's efforts in 06 are looking very rosy!

My only criticism is the selection of Howard as a second rounder and the re-drafting of Ferguson. Nothing wrong with taking a punt on a player but that's what the rookie draft is for.

Ideally Ferguson should not have been redrafted and as JB obviously liked the look of Howard, he should have taken him with our 5th rounder. Would another club have taken him before then? I doubt it. This would have freed up our second round pick. Petterd, Tippett, Davey, Krakouer, Houli, Reimers, Connors, Goldsack, Westhoff & White have all shown much more promise and were taken later on. Mind you everything seems to become much clearer in hindsight - a luxury JB didn't have.

Overall I'd have to give our 06 drafting an A at the moment and most of that is on the back of our rookie selctions, wth 4 of the 6 rookies staking a legitimate claim for a spot on the senior list within the space of a year. Take away the rookies and I'd give our 06 effort a C.

I think Ferguson will be gone at the end of the season. We have to delist 3 to open up spots for the Nat Draft. I would also expect Eddy to be promoted as well (he would already be above Freg in Lyon's pecking order) which means at least 4 delistings/retirements. Possible retirees - Max, Frase. That leaves at least 2 delistings.

Candidates? Rix, Ferg, Gwilt, Howard.........

[Spinner]

The retention of 5 out of 6 rookies is fantastic....With 2 making it onto the senior list.

Much Much more improvement in comparison to the GT years.

[Armoooo]

The retention of 5 out of 6 rookies is fantastic....With 2 making it onto the senior list.

Much Much more improvement in comparison to the GT years.

I'm not a fan of GT and never was but in his defense the recent rule changes regarding rookies did make RL's job a lot easier...

Our rookie draft was nothing short of sensational in '06 but the national draft doesn't look so great yet...

Our work over the past two years is so impressive, we have gotten Schneider, Dempster, King, C.Gardiner, M.Gardiner, Biss, Geary, Jones, Attard and Eddy who are all potential 22 players (some more than most obviously) and for all this we basically gave up pick 26 of '07 and pick 43 of '06...

[saintsRrising]

I started posting a fair bit back on List Management and how under GT our list was going backwards.

I think it is now very evident what proper list management can do.

The criminal thing is that despite RL's improvements that if our list had not been mismanaged by the last incumbents that our list would now be way in front of every other club by a clear margin.

RL is doing a great job of getting us back on track....but we should never have so quickly squandered the boon we gained from the combination of Watson (finishing low), Blight (attracting players who otherwise would have joined the Saints) and the Blues cheating(BJ).

Thinking we had already a "great" list those in charge frittered away trade picks and failed to mine properly for rookies.

Nobody gets it right all the time and indeeda chief part of the process is to sort through players....but the previous incumbant just mad too many poor calls on players potential.....and paid way way too little attention to actually developing players in terems of their football ability.

[mischa]

Of course you're going to do better when you finish out of the 8 than in it. That's the way the draft works.

[supersaints]

geez, and after Armatiges first season most formunites thouigh JB was useless !!!!!

[saintsRrising]

I'm not a fan of GT and never was but in his defense the recent rule changes regarding rookies did make RL's job a lot easier...

...

Though that does not explain our poor performnce in this regard in comaprison to Melbourne based clubs in the past.

We still used to have 3 rookies...but with very little sow from it.

Geary and Eddy are both examples of cheap local pick ups....if you pick the right players and develop them.



Look at it % wise. Our previous strike rate was no good.

[SaintBot]

i did a little something late last year on our recruiting up till 2006.

http://www.saintsational.com/forum/view ... highlight=


ill do an update on all the draftees and rookies of 2006 and start creating a profile for all the newbies to the club (exception of Fraser)

[saintsRrising]

geez, and after Armatiges first season most formunites thouigh JB was useless !!!!!

????

While there was a lot of roasting on Howard's selection...my recollection is that most forumites were very pleased at Armitage's pick up...but were disappointed that Armo was not fit enough in his first year.




However it is not really JB's recommendations that were by and large questioned...it was the trading done by others which was pretty dismal.


JB is known however to often rate largely on football talent and to not pay enough attention to aspects such as attitude or injury records (I have been told this by a former club Doc). So JB works best when teamed with others who look at the whole picture....as long as they have the ability to do so.

It also explains aberations such as Sweeney (lots of talent BUT also lots of issues!!!)...with the Saints having a healthy does of players with attitude problems.

So delegate to JB full selection of kids if you will...but then expect some interesting picks if you do.


JB is however a superb spotter of football taelent.

[saintsRrising]

i did a little something late last year on our recruiting up till 2006.

http://www.saintsational.com/forum/view ... highlight=


ill do an update on all the draftees and rookies of 2006 and start creating a profile for all the newbies to the club (exception of Fraser)

Good stuff.

[borderbarry]

With last years draft, I was not happy with our first selection. I wanted them to pick up Junior Rioli. He was great on Saturday night, whereas our McEvoy has yet to make an appearance. Time will tell I suppose. I could not understand why they wanted another big bloke. I felt a quick small forward was more in keeping with our requirements.

[bigred]

That rookie draft is golden.

Patience and time.....

[TimeToShineFellas]

I'm not a fan of GT and never was but in his defense the recent rule changes regarding rookies did make RL's job a lot easier...

If I recall correctly, Thomas said he didn't really pay much attention to rookie development in the past (If I can find where I read it, I will post accordingly)

A bit like not placing much emphasis on quality ruckmen

[plugger66]

I'm not a fan of GT and never was but in his defense the recent rule changes regarding rookies did make RL's job a lot easier...

If I recall correctly, Thomas said he didn't really pay much attention to rookie development in the past (If I can find where I read it, I will post accordingly)

A bit like not placing much emphasis on quality ruckmen

I dont think he was given the resources to find rookies as we only had JB helping on recruiting. Also he wasnt allowed the full compliment because of money constraints.

[TimeToShineFellas]

I dont think he was given the resources to find rookies as we only had JB helping on recruiting. Also he wasnt allowed the full compliment because of money constraints.

Fair enough, plug.......

[Mr Magic]

I'm not a fan of GT and never was but in his defense the recent rule changes regarding rookies did make RL's job a lot easier...

If I recall correctly, Thomas said he didn't really pay much attention to rookie development in the past (If I can find where I read it, I will post accordingly)

A bit like not placing much emphasis on quality ruckmen

I dont think he was given the resources to find rookies as we only had JB helping on recruiting. Also he wasnt allowed the full compliment because of money constraints.

If you're talking about 'full-time' employees of the Club then I think you are correct about JB.

But JB also had a network of 'spotters' all over the country sending him information about prospective players.

I don't know if there were money constraints stopping us from having Rookies. I seem to recall it was more to do with spending maximum dollars on our list (including veterans) and therefore leaving no 'money for Rookies?

[plugger66]

I'm not a fan of GT and never was but in his defense the recent rule changes regarding rookies did make RL's job a lot easier...

If I recall correctly, Thomas said he didn't really pay much attention to rookie development in the past (If I can find where I read it, I will post accordingly)

A bit like not placing much emphasis on quality ruckmen

I dont think he was given the resources to find rookies as we only had JB helping on recruiting. Also he wasnt allowed the full compliment because of money constraints.

If you're talking about 'full-time' employees of the Club then I think you are correct about JB.

But JB also had a network of 'spotters' all over the country sending him information about prospective players.

I don't know if there were money constraints stopping us from having Rookies. I seem to recall it was more to do with spending maximum dollars on our list (including veterans) and therefore leaving no 'money for Rookies?

I dont think rookies are in the salary cap.

[saintsRrising]

I don't know if there were money constraints stopping us from having Rookies. I seem to recall it was more to do with spending maximum dollars on our list (including veterans) and therefore leaving no 'money for Rookies?

I dont think rookies are in the salary cap.

They don't have to be....

You can spend 100% of your salary cap...

Or you can spend 95%....and even though the 5% is not within the salary cap spend it on rookies instead.




Irrespective of whether you have 6 or 3 rookies....our previous strike rate of rookies coming through as a percentage was dismal.

[Mr Magic]

I'm not a fan of GT and never was but in his defense the recent rule changes regarding rookies did make RL's job a lot easier...

If I recall correctly, Thomas said he didn't really pay much attention to rookie development in the past (If I can find where I read it, I will post accordingly)

A bit like not placing much emphasis on quality ruckmen

I dont think he was given the resources to find rookies as we only had JB helping on recruiting. Also he wasnt allowed the full compliment because of money constraints.

I've got a feeling though that the system was if you had Veterans on your list it impinged on your ability to have Rookies?

And we had Harvey and Thommo? (and I don't know if there were more?) on tne Veterans list to enable us to keep under the salary cap.


If you're talking about 'full-time' employees of the Club then I think you are correct about JB.

But JB also had a network of 'spotters' all over the country sending him information about prospective players.

I don't know if there were money constraints stopping us from having Rookies. I seem to recall it was more to do with spending maximum dollars on our list (including veterans) and therefore leaving no 'money for Rookies?

I dont think rookies are in the salary cap.

[SaintBot]

i did a little something late last year on our recruiting up till 2006.

http://www.saintsational.com/forum/view ... highlight=


ill do an update on all the draftees and rookies of 2006 and start creating a profile for all the newbies to the club (exception of Fraser)

David Armitage – Picked with Draft Selection #9 in 2006 – Nathan Brown (#10), Andrejs Everitt (#11), James Frawley (#12), Jack Riewoldt (#13), James Sellar (#14) and Mitchell Brown (#16) – Just the three games in his first season and showed some signs. Has had a very good preseason and he is showing it with two excellent NAB Cup games. He’s really putting his hand up for that “spotâ€

[hAyES]

The drafting during the GT period has cost us some much needed depth that we could have used now. It's good to see that it has changed the past couple of years because the draft is very important and should be taken very seriously.

[Otiman]

Does anyone see us redrafting Wall if he has a stellar year with the Scorpions? (He has some tough competition for a backman spot though with Miles and Silvagni playing at Casey)

[Otiman]

Jarryd Allen has shown he can take a good contested mark.

I disagree, is constantly beaten in the air.

[plugger66]

Does anyone see us redrafting Wall if he has a stellar year with the Scorpions? (He has some tough competition for a backman spot though with Miles and Silvagni playing at Casey)

In a word no.