Charlie

[saintsRrising]

Anyone else reckon there will be an issue with Charlie gardiner being in the best 22. On NAB cup form I think he is well within the best 22, but with: Fraser, Kosi, Roo and Him.
Thoughts?

He is 190cm and plays asa medium running forward who pushes up into the midfield...and even backline.



He is comperting therefore with our vast number of other medium forwards which is ...err no one.

If he is good enough he can therefore grab a spot in the 22.


His real competion is not the talls....but the smalls....those players that may play on the flanks....or for RL deciding to rotatea midfielder ona HFF.

Can C Gardiner dispalce one of Milne, Schneider and X?...or if RL goes fora 7 man defence...two of them?

His great running ability is going to help him.

Charlie has been playing likea mini-Roo...and with his current form will bea great foil for our talls and a great support to our midfield group.

He has been finding the ball well...now he just has to make sure that he continues to use it clearly and to the davantage of his team mates...and to yes snarea few goals.

[Armoooo]

I really can't see us playing a forward line without Milne and Schneider in it (unless for injuries ofcourse) so IMO he only has to displace Xavier, and if he can continue from his good form against Richmond in the midfield that should be quite easily done...

[rexy]

Agree 100% SR, if Milne is still an auto selection and Schneider is an auto selection (and I said IF) then do we pick C Gardiner in front of say X Clarke or L Fisher?

[Armoooo]

Agree 100% SR, if Milne is still an auto selection and Schneider is an auto selection (and I said IF) then do we pick C Gardiner in front of say X Clarke or L Fisher?

For me it would have to be L.Fisher, I just can not see him getting too much game time this year...

[vacuous space]

Disagree. Rather than Kosi having an unco 18 year old flnker line up against him, he is likely to be confronted by half the opposition side within 50m of him. Opposition coaches are not going to let us single out Kosi and Gehrig against lesser opponents, and having all of them forward will just trigger a major flood every week.

If both Riewoldt and Gardiner are constantly leading up from half forward then the opposition will simply place a couple of players on the wings/center and cut them off every time.

How many extra guys do you think our opposition is going to play in defence? At some point they have to go forward and kick themselves a winning score. They can't relistically double team all our talls. They'll employ one or two extras in defence max. They'll concede touches to Roo and Charlie up the ground and try to fill the space in front of Kosi.

Charlie's shown he's got a good engine, and he's done well in terms of pressuring the opponent and tackling. I don't see his height as a liability at all.

[mad saint guy]

How many extra guys do you think our opposition is going to play in defence? They'll employ one or two extras in defence max. They'll concede touches to Roo and Charlie up the ground and try to fill the space in front of Kosi.

They would probably start with two extra players in the defensive half if we went with four marking forwards, and very quickly employ a mass flood as soon as we try to move the ball forward. If our ball movement is quick, direct and accurate then we will have no problem, however last year we were probably the worst in the competition in that area.

No doubt they won't care too much if Roo/Charlie are getting the occasional mark on the wing, however if we go straight to them every time we clear it from CHB it would become very predictable and they would put players into that space.

At some point they have to go forward and kick themselves a winning score. They can't relistically double team all our talls.

This is an area where we have really broken down in the past. We let the opposition clear it quickly from our forward line and then catch our defenders off guard, allowing the opposition easy goals. We don't have the pace to run them down in our forward line or in the midfield, and Max is the only tall defender who rarely lets his opponent get away from him. We make this method (which should be a low-percentage play) far too easy for the opposition and they score plenty of goals from it.

Charlie's shown he's got a good engine, and he's done well in terms of pressuring the opponent and tackling. I don't see his height as a liability at all.

No, but he's still a leading forward. He certainly isn't a crumber or midfielder, and his tackling/chasing are ok, but not a real asset.

In the end our abuncance of tall forward probably won't be a problem considering the injury records of Kosi, Gehrig and Roo. Right now none of them are fully fit.

[iwantmeseats]

I see Gardner as either a running goal kicking half foward, or can play deeper and fill a hole or take a extra good defender. These are pivotal roles and positions we have been lacking in. Scneider is another who I cant see playing deep in the foward line, but is a goal kicking half foward type.

Exciting, we are finally plugging some holes, barring the dreadfed "i" word.

[saintsRrising]

No doubt they won't care too much if Roo/Charlie are getting the occasional mark on the wing, however if we go straight to them every time we clear it from CHB it would become very predictable and they would put players into that space.

.

So how would only having Roo doing this be less predictable???

Surely having two options by definition will be less predictable than one?

[iwantmeseats]

No doubt they won't care too much if Roo/Charlie are getting the occasional mark on the wing, however if we go straight to them every time we clear it from CHB it would become very predictable and they would put players into that space.

.

So how would only having Roo doing this be less predictable???

Surely having two options by definition will be less predictable than one?

Not to mention they would be both hard to match up on, and two doing damage, means two defenders kept busy. Works for me

[saintsRrising]

No, but he's still a leading forward. .

But in the two NAB games he did not play purely as a leading forward at all.

He roamed far and wide from the forward line to the HB line.

He basically played the role that many have said Roo should play....asa "floating" player that presents, presents presents.

This is a valuable playing role in "modern" football which is based on keeping possession of the ball and to do this finding players in space.

So a player that can present far and wide over the ground is a useful commodity.

Roo has often done this for the Saints...but in doing so he has often left a hole in the forward line.


So I see Charlie as a HF...who floats around the ground lending support to the midfield and backline by being aflaoting link player...and yes being a marking target.

[bigcarl]

Charlie has been playing likea mini-Roo...and with his current form will bea great foil for our talls and a great support to our midfield group.

exactly. i see no reason charlie can't fit into a six-man forward line containing riewoldt, kosi, fraser and a couple of smalls like milne and schneider.

ought to be really easy for him since he will get the opposition's fourth best tall defender

essentially we'd be playing him as a medium who can play tall, a role similar to that of hamill's in 2004

we have the opportunity here to stretch opposition defences beyond their capabilities with an extremely aerially dominant forward line

we should not miss it

[spert]

I've got no doubt that Charlie will be in the 22 if Gehrig is playing, as I think he is going to be swung into FF when Gtrain is having one of his bad days or is a bit proppy -we haven't really had a regular option for that scenario.