Goose Concerns

[plugger66]

Not going to address specifically the weaknesses I raised plugger66?

They have been present in his game since he first started playing ...

You cite Jonothan Brown as an example of a player Maguire has "done well" on ...

From 2003-2006 (prior to injury), Jonothan Brown's stats vs. St Kilda with Maguire and Brown playing:

Rnd 6, 2004 = 17 disposals, 8 marks, 1 goal
QF, 2004 = 15 disposals, 9 marks, 6 goals
Rnd 3, 2006 = 20 disposals, 9 marks, 2 goals


IMO Maguire has never beaten Brown ... maybe broken even with him once (in '04), but never "done well" on him.


Can you make an argument plugger66?

I'll trust you with the stats and from what you have given me there it is one all with a draw. Not bad on the best forward in the comp. How can address things like he has poor discipline. I have never really seen it or cannot play on bigs J brown an example. Or never plays well in big games. My memory isnt good enough to remember all the big games.

What I will address is how important he was rated by the GT and RL and the players. They all rate him very highly as far as I have heard. Of course I cannot prove that but I have heard them speak only good things about him as a player.

You also mention Miles, Dempster, Gwilt and Gilbert and say they are similar. You surely are joking. If you think Goose cant play on bigs how would those blokes go.

[Oh When the Saints]

Fair enough he is rated highly by the coaches/playing group - he has some great attributes:

- Fearless and aggressive attack at the ball
- Terrific run and carry from the backline
- Good reader of the play
- Booming kick on the run
- Strength to go with most forwards


But IMO his weaknesses are still significant (especially defensive), and he is over-rated (pre-injury) by many Saints fans who love his attitude and have their judgement clouded by that ...

He is a solid AFL player and will probably end up playing 180-odd games for the Saints, which is a terrific effort.


But he is no star, and he is fairly over-rated by most St Kilda supporters IMO.

[jill]

But we all want the aggressive, talented Goose fit and back in our line-up!!!!!! Until BHall rolled him had taken all before him!!

[The OtherThommo]

Asked to ruck at 20 yo by the stuper coach who didn't rate ruckpersons. Gives it a crack, including 4 on ball goals while rucking in a flogging in Adelaide.

Eventually gets given the chance to settle at CHB. Plays a game vs Melbourne, early '05 (guessing - it was the Cam Bruce/Guerra game), when the Dee's were top and flying. He marked absolutely everything and the depth and precision of his kicking was nothing short of mag-freakin' -nificent.

In the '05 pre-lim he had Hall done and dusted until Hall blind sided him with a low, low act. Next time they met , in the wet (hey, it rhymes) in Sydney, we won, Goose destroyed Hall one on one all night.

The bloke can play. The Boss clearly rates him, 'cos in a recent chat about "hearts and souls" he named him and then included him in a summary list of young captaincy options. And The Boss ain't no fool.

He'll get there. Fearless, adventurous, brave with the second best long disposal (after Goddard) in the joint.

I look forward to his full return.

[bigcarl]

Goose is an attacking CHB ... and quite a good one. Goose is not a defensive full back.

exactly. we should not even consider trying to turn him into something he is not. to do so would be to completely wreck him as a footballer.

let him play his natural game

[Sobraz]

Asked to ruck at 20 yo by the stuper coach who didn't rate ruckpersons. Gives it a crack, including 4 on ball goals while rucking in a flogging in Adelaide.

Eventually gets given the chance to settle at CHB. Plays a game vs Melbourne, early '05 (guessing - it was the Cam Bruce/Guerra game), when the Dee's were top and flying. He marked absolutely everything and the depth and precision of his kicking was nothing short of mag-freakin' -nificent.

In the '05 pre-lim he had Hall done and dusted until Hall blind sided him with a low, low act. Next time they met , in the wet (hey, it rhymes) in Sydney, we won, Goose destroyed Hall one on one all night.

The bloke can play. The Boss clearly rates him, 'cos in a recent chat about "hearts and souls" he named him and then included him in a summary list of young captaincy options. And The Boss ain't no fool.

He'll get there. Fearless, adventurous, brave with the second best long disposal (after Goddard) in the joint.

I look forward to his full return.

This is a great post.. exactly spot on the money...

Many examples of Gooses ability are made against Jon Brown.. Useless, at his best, nobody can stop this guy, and is no reflection of Matts ability.

His games against Hall when at his best showcase his value.. He has killed him number of times.. both on the lead and in contests.. We need him to be back to his best if we are to have a real crack at the flag IMO..

And as mentioned, his long kicking is a vital flood breaker that we missed last year badly..

[Solar]

my biggest worry is his sidways movement, will he have enough agility in that broken leg to play CHB? The way the forward set ups in the AFL is going you have 1-2 power forwards with most of them playing at FF (starting from the 20-30 metre part of the fwd50). I would love to see goose turn back the clock and play that attacking CHB, one wonders how things might have gone if he roosted that goal a couple minutes into the final quarter of the '05 prelim..... but if he can't we can still turn him into a very good FB. Focus him on working on his sprinting and spoiling and turn him into a glass etc. type full back

[BAM! (shhhh)]

My criticisms of Goose:

- Lacks the height to play on the taller forwards

Really? Can't think of anyone who's beaten him through height. Goose has a fantastic leap.

- Poor closing speed means he can't play on quick forwards

Poor closing speed??? Matt Maguire??? Prior to '07 I always rated this as a big strength. As I'm expecting a full recovery, I'm expecting it to be again... which CHFs are you worried about on this count?

- Lack of discipline is costly against good opponents

Can at times be a problem, but if he can get his head around hands in the back, I'd expect his toughness to be more of an upside than discipline a downside.

- Poor agility - can only run in straight lines

So we keep hearing, but the simplest response I can think of is this: If the opposition wants to work their path through CHF by putting the ball on the ground, give me the problem.

- Has never played forward with great success; not versatile

True enough... but why do we want to play him forward?

- Never plays well when the side is struggling

How many defenders who don't rack up possessions look good when the side is struggling?

It's a fair list and he is missing some important qualities for a defender.

With the addition of Dempster and Miles to our list, and the continued development of S. Fisher, Gilbert and Gwilt as similar backmen, it's looking increasingly hard for Goose to fit into the team.

Dempster, Miles and Gwilt aren't even in Maguire's shadow as defenders. Fisher and Gilbert are hardly similar players, and both will benefit from having Maguire there to let them off the leash.

I remember when Lyon first came to the club he said that he put a premium on defenders who stopped their man - he said at the time that Hudghton was the only one at St Kilda entirely focused on this.

Okay, but lets take that in context with the way that Lyon changed the gameplan in the defensive 50 as well. Under Lyon, other than the extra man, you rarely see players dropping off their own man to help in anothers contest, which was te bread and butter of the old defense, which Goose thrived in. Given the number of matchups he won in that old regime, it's hardly a stretch to think he's going to be just fine in the new one.

With the flaws in Maguire's defensive game, I can see him struggling to get a spot in the 22 this season.

The only way Maguire fails to be a walk into the best 22 is if he struggles to regain fitness and form (entirely possible with his last 18 months). As dissapointing as he was last year, it's no fluke that his return co-incided with a number of BOGs for Sam Fisher.

[bigcarl]

And as mentioned, his long kicking is a vital flood breaker that we missed last year badly..

too true. him and grammy can turn defence into attack with one booming kick

[Dan Warna]

owts i agree with a lot of what you say in other posts, in the Goose analysis IMO you are wrong.

but then again its just opinion in the end

cheers

goose ftw.

[st mad]

firstly this is my first post... however it is absolutely ridiculous the thoughts on goose and is indicitive of many posters to always look on the negative. First and foremost goose was and still is an potent and important person in our backline with this kids determination to succeeed through an horrific injury there is no doubt that this attitude will place him in good stead to return to form and become one of our most important players