Goose Concerns

[rexy]

Is a gun, best 22 easy, top 15 in the B&F in 08.

Everyone Relax.

So far in the last week this forum has dropped Max and Goose and is going to play Sam Fisher and 2 55kg 19 year old whippets as its defence.

I should have joined that supercoach League.

[bigcarl]

If someone started watching footy in 2006 they would have no idea why he is regarded as being in our best 22.

it's taken him a long time to get over that horrible broken leg. i see no reason he cannot get back to his 2004 form where he was often devastating across half back. he is only 24 remember

simply a matter of time, confidence and a bit of luck

[iwantmeseats]

anyone know how he is actually going? Is he slated to be a possibility for any particular round?

[Ralphy]

round one apparently

[jill]

ralphysaint35 very impressive tatt - is it yours? Fill us in on pain factor! When we win our 2nd Flag I intend getting my 1 & only tatt - I'm 60 this year but am hoping I & my beloved Saints can have a double celebration
PS mine will be a mini one

[Ralphy]

it is mine

im skinny haha as you can see but oh well
im 19, 20 on monday!

the pain factor.... was....almost passed out well got dizzy when they went over the outline, it hurt so much more then my other 2

but i think it looks good as im a saint so i wanted something that was me

i put 1966 going to put 2008 when we win!

[jill]

You're a champ! Am now even more of Riccardo's! Thanks but will enjoy the pain later this year

[Ralphy]

was great so im so proud of it


if you cant see the writing i got

#35 harvey
'1966'

put under it

[jill]

oops - didn't proof read - am now even more in awe of Riccardo's!

[Ralphy]

whats riccardos?

[jill]

Simply the Best! Nicky Winmar's famous gesture at Victoria Park - remains an absolute St.Kilda highlight & must NEVER be forgotten! and Riccardo is to be congratulated for the pain he must have endured to immortalise it

[Ralphy]

AH...
OK!

kewl

yeah good luck getting the tatt dude.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

As well as being big and strong, he's got great straight line speed and closing speed, fantastic endurance, and a 60m kick. I'll back a fit Goose on any CHF in the comp, and back him to make those around him better defensively at the same time. What he lacks as a playmaker should be made up for by Goddard, Raph, Gram, Fisher and Gilbert.

His straight line speed (when 100% fit) is ok, but opposition forwards all know that now. His biggest weakness is the fact that he can't change direction. Against the powerful key forwards who are poor at ground level and have no agility Goose is an extremely effective player. And if he is lucky enough to get a match up against a kid with little experience or a GOP who reads the play poorly, then Goose is very good and knowing when to run forward thump the footy inside 50.

However many CHF's these days are extremely agile and good at ground level. Quinten Lynch would have no problem circles running around Goose all day. Lance Franklin would kill him once the ball hits the ground. Then there are players who are simply far too quick for him.

...

Since this idea got out there last year, it's taken hold as gospel. Honestly, I'm not sure why.

I've no doubt Franklin is better at ground level than Goose, but frankly, if Goose stops Franklin taking a mark, he's done his job... the extent of what I expect after the deck is that if Franklin picks the ball up, Goose should tackle him. While it may be a weakness, if opposition teams want the ball on the deck instead of in the air in our backline, give me the problem - we've got other players to win that battle.

I was reading last night about how Lynch towelled up Goose last year. So as a bit of an aside, am I correct in remembering Lynch kicked 3 of his goals from outside 50 that day? I don't know about others, but when forwards kick multiple 50m-plus goals, I tend to think they'll towel up anyone. I definately remember Goose battling hands-in-the-back that day more than any agility concerns or speed concerns.

For the time being it's all moot of course, on '07 form Maguire has far more concerns than simply agility and ground level work... but I reamain bemused by how quickly those concerns have become the acepted "book" on Maguire among fans.

[saint66au]

According to todays paper, Goose is slated for a possible Round 1 return ....for the Scorps

[Dan Warna]

if forwards are kicking goals from 50m out, that would suggest that the defence is doing its job forcing the forwards to take risky low percentage shots.

as for speed, pre injury goose was fast.

as for turning speed, i wonder how many 190cm plus defenders have the run speed to take down dew and johncock in their pomp?

really all i see here is what few flaws that goose has, and grossly overlooking the fantastic array of skills he has.

There are VERY FEW PERFECT players who have fantastic speed, small turning circles, height, strength, evasiveness, kicking, handpassing etc all at 100%

goose has speed, he is ok turning, he has a good kick on him, he is couragious, can mark well, can spoil well, plays well within a team context, has strength and height and courage.

prior to his injury 2 seasons ago was looking in AA form. big money was being thrown at him to cross over to a number of teams including brisbane and geelong.

if you are waiting for the perfect defender with ALL the boxes marked you'll be waiting for a long time.

goose is a quality unit and if he can get fit and has a healthy run, he has far more ticks than most other defenders.

at least he can mark, kick, and handpass accurately which is more than can be said of somepeople's favourite players...

goose ftw.

[saintsRrising]

I agree Dan...

[yipper]

Agree Dan. Very attacking defender - runs well and kicks long. Can play on Jonathon Brown and smaller forwards. When he is on song - he compliments the dour Maxie perfectly, and slots in alongside Chips, Gram and Gilbert / Raph to form a very attacking, rebounding defence that will do very well in big games.

[CURLY]

But hang on after badly breaking his leg he struggled early on surely we must delist him. What are we thinking giving our first choice CHB time to get back to his best? Obviously our couching staff know nothing!!!!

[bigcarl]

I agree Dan.

so do i dan. i hope he makes a few eat their words this season. many have forgotten just how effective a player he can be

[Oh When the Saints]

The thing that worries me about Maguire is not so much his injury, but his form prior to the injury.

In 2006, until the game where he did a job on Hall, there were countless threads on here calling for Goose to be dropped. He was horribly out of form and being beaten most weeks, and not contributing much rebound.

His football in '04 and '05 was generally of a high standard, but Maguire struggled in '06. He played maybe 2-3 good games before he broke his leg.

Obviously last year he struggled when returning.


The worry for me is that Goose has not strung consistent performances together at AFL level since '05.

Football changes quickly, and the game has become faster and more slanted towards forwards in the last 2 years.

It will take Maguire a lot of hard word and some alterations to his game style to again perform at a consistently high standard at AFL level IMO.

Good luck to him and I hope he can evolve to suit the needs of the team.


But I have my doubts ...

[bigcarl]

His football in '04 and '05 was generally of a high standard, but Maguire struggled in '06. He played maybe 2-3 good games before he broke his leg.

maguire was one of the reasons we were as successful as we were in 2004-2005 imo.

him missing the first half of 2007 was a big blow for us.

interestingly we lost only three or four after goose returned despite his mediocre personal form.

when he is up and running he is an inspiring player and gives the guys around him heaps of confidence.

let's just hope he can get back to his best

[Oh When the Saints]

My criticisms of Goose:

- Lacks the height to play on the taller forwards
- Poor closing speed means he can't play on quick forwards
- Lack of discipline is costly against good opponents
- Poor agility - can only run in straight lines
- Has never played forward with great success; not versatile
- Never plays well when the side is struggling

It's a fair list and he is missing some important qualities for a defender.


With the addition of Dempster and Miles to our list, and the continued development of S. Fisher, Gilbert and Gwilt as similar backmen, it's looking increasingly hard for Goose to fit into the team.

I remember when Lyon first came to the club he said that he put a premium on defenders who stopped their man - he said at the time that Hudghton was the only one at St Kilda entirely focused on this.


With the flaws in Maguire's defensive game, I can see him struggling to get a spot in the 22 this season.

[plugger66]

My criticisms of Goose:

- Lacks the height to play on the taller forwards
- Poor closing speed means he can't play on quick forwards
- Lack of discipline is costly against good opponents
- Poor agility - can only run in straight lines
- Has never played forward with great success; not versatile
- Never plays well when the side is struggling

It's a fair list and he is missing some important qualities for a defender.


With the addition of Dempster and Miles to our list, and the continued development of S. Fisher, Gilbert and Gwilt as similar backmen, it's looking increasingly hard for Goose to fit into the team.

I remember when Lyon first came to the club he said that he put a premium on defenders who stopped their man - he said at the time that Hudghton was the only one at St Kilda entirely focused on this.


With the flaws in Maguire's defensive game, I can see him struggling to get a spot in the 22 this season.

Please tell me you have only followed the Saints for 2 years because from what you have said it certainly sounds like it. Hasnt he done well on a J Brown who is regarded as the best forward in the AFL. Forget about his last 2 years as he has been injured.

[Oh When the Saints]

Not going to address specifically the weaknesses I raised plugger66?

They have been present in his game since he first started playing ...

You cite Jonothan Brown as an example of a player Maguire has "done well" on ...

From 2003-2006 (prior to injury), Jonothan Brown's stats vs. St Kilda with Maguire and Brown playing:

Rnd 6, 2004 = 17 disposals, 8 marks, 1 goal
QF, 2004 = 15 disposals, 9 marks, 6 goals
Rnd 3, 2006 = 20 disposals, 9 marks, 2 goals


IMO Maguire has never beaten Brown ... maybe broken even with him once (in '04), but never "done well" on him.


Can you make an argument plugger66?

[saintsRrising]

Goose is a CHB....and not a FB.

Full backs are often very dour...

CHB's are often quite attacking.

Goose is an attacking CHB...and quite a good one.

Goose is not a defensive full back.

Goose is no Max.

But then again Max is no Goose and would not make a good CHB.