Can we be better than the Cats????

[saintsRrising]

Both of you,go outside and don't come back until you can behave yourselves.

Tis a bit hard as Rodge likes to stalk my posts...and evidently forum rules do not aplly to his posts....so he is free to trash perfectly reasonable strings with name calling , baiting etc.

[rodgerfox]

Both of you,go outside and don't come back until you can behave yourselves.

Tis a bit hard as Rodge likes to stalk my posts...and evidently forum rules do not aplly to his posts....so he is free to trash perfectly reasonable strings with name calling , baiting etc.

Actually, I've been warned twice.

I'm on my 3rd and final chance!

So please, stop being a simpleton and speaking crap so I don't have to insult you.

[saintsRrising]

So please, stop being a simpleton and speaking crap so I don't have to insult you.

Oh dear.....

One last attempt...

If you disagree with what I post....just say so...make a counter arguement, raise different point of view etc...

But please spare me and probably more importantly the rest of the forum the name calling, baiting etc.

For my part I will try and just ignore your behaviour from now on. Ignore Button.

One thing I will not do is to stop posting or creating posts. It is a forum after all!!

[Armoooo]

Good for you sRr!!
Just a shame that a serious thread has been littered like this...

[rodgerfox]

One thing I will not do is to stop posting or creating posts. It is a forum after all!!

I'll take that as a no, to you ceasing speaking crap then.

[Teflon]

Both of you,go outside and don't come back until you can behave yourselves.

Tis a bit hard as Rodge likes to stalk my posts...and evidently forum rules do not aplly to his posts....so he is free to trash perfectly reasonable strings with name calling , baiting etc.

Actually, I've been warned twice.

I'm on my 3rd and final chance!

So please, stop being a simpleton and speaking crap so I don't have to insult you.

Mods?

Surely this has gone far enough.

SR - whether you agree with him or not - is a FOOTBALL poster in the trues sense.

Do something bout the attention seeking, name calling stalking from Rodger or accept the new rules as a joke.

[Oh When the Saints]

It is respectfully requested that discussion of moderation by done by PM, or at the very least on the General Forum thanks Teflon.

rodgerfox has been subjected to the new rules and has received warnings where appropriate.

[Ackland St. Blues]

To sum up:

Geelong >> St.Kilda.

Cheers

[BAM! (shhhh)]

My argument BAM, is that Geelong did what every other club also did.

Focused on getting players fit, looked each other in the eye, recruited to what they thought suited them, had sports pshycologists, assessed where they were off-field etc. etc. etc.

The difference being, that Geelong had their list at the right stage to succeed in terms of experience and maturity - and they didn't get hurt.

They didn't have a BJ going down with a knee. They didn't have a Goose or Lenny coming back from knees and broken legs etc.

They were lucky.

Even when Stokes looked to be cactus and certain to have done a knee in the first quarter of the GF, which would have left them a man short in a GF - he came back on.

That's good fortune.

They had good luck. Of course credit to them for making sure they were in a situation to capilitise on it, but I really don't think one single club in the comp right now couldn't capiltilise on having a full list that's fit for the whole year.

In the context of what you're saying above, I 100% agree that the Cats were lucky. The attempt was certainly not to put words into your mouth, when this subject has come up, and you've used the word lucky, I've by and large agreed with your use of the term. I suppose my insertion of myself in this thread (and perhaps sRr's objection to your use of the term? Don't want to put words into his mouth either) is that it's been widely put forward by the cats naysayers as a reason to consider the Cats overrated, which I think is a stretch.

So, to be clear since this thread has had a fair bit of angst since I last checked it: when I say lcuky, I mean knee injuries, I mean uninterrupted pre-season that seem to lend themselves to healthy hamstrings, I mean that keeping an entire core of your most crucial players on the park for over 20 games in a year is an accomplishment that deserves credit and a head nod to lady luck.

The one area I disagree with Rodger's above is on the capitalisation... in the last 2 years, yes, we've seen both how good and bad the Cats can be, and over the last 3 we've seen via Sydney the impact it can have on turning what on surface seems a mediocre list into a premier, a runner up, and missing finals altogether. However, while I may be misinterpreting (in fact, I'm almost sure I am) the implication, I think there are a number of teams (Richmond, Carlton) who could have missed finals with a totally healthy list, a number more who would have been finals fodder regardless, and a very short list who with the same fortunate run could have chieved the kind of result the Cats did.

I'd like to number St. Kilda among them, but honestly, I can't say I've seen the kind of mental fortitude and confidence from the Saints that the 2007 Cats showed since they lost in the 2005 prelim (it left them in the 4th quarter, and hasn't been seen since), and while I can see how one can lead to the other, I don't think it's a given that it would.

[spert]

I agree luck counts as well as everything else I said about balanced teams etc in an earlier post. Geelong have set the current benchmark as other teams have in the past. Until we are balanced across all lines, and develop a strong backline, with more goals from the mids and smalls, then we still haven't reached that benchmark. I'm sure RL and crew is building us in that direction. Although G. Thomas might have thought he could, no coach alone can crack a flag at AFL level, he needs a specialist group working with him (and above him) and I think RL is surrounded by the right people, thought time will tell if Westaway and his group can deliver the goods for this club.

[saintsRrising]

Well perhaps look at it this way...

Do you want to rely on success by being the "luckiest" team in the AFL?

Do you want to win a premiership only in a year when you had extrodinary luck?


Look at Freo...is fitness the only reason why they have not been more successful than they have? No.

Should Freo, given their list, have been more successful than they have (not necessarilly a GF win). IMO, yes.


The Lions knocked off the Pies in a GF when the Lions fielded a team full of injuries and niggles....but they won? Was it due to luck on the Day? No.



Now my OP may have beena bit too black and white...but sometimnes to get some discussion it is good to do that.

But in conclusion the Cat's flag in 2007 hada lot LOT more to do with getting things right and hard work than it had to do with lady luck.


As a poster said in anorther string..

"The harder I work, the luckier I get".

Winning the GF is a lot more about doing most things right than it is being that year's lottery winner.

[Armoooo]

Until we are balanced across all lines, and develop a strong backline,.

FB: Baker Hudghton S.Fisher
HB: Gram Maguire Goddard
that seems pretty good to me, we also have Attard, Dempster, Gilbert, the Clarke brothers and Geary who can all have a crack, IMO the backline is the least of our worries...

[StSteven]

Wow what luck Cats have had,

Luck 1: win the Flag
Luck 2: Win the Brownlow
Luck 3: 2nd in Brownlow
Luck 3: Win Rising star
Luck 4: MPA Award
Luck 5: Selection of 9 All Australians
Luck 6: Win VFL Premiership
Luck 7: B&F in VFL (I think) - if not bad luck Cats!!!!

Hell I want to know how you get so much luck!

We are in denial or delusional if we credit this to luck.

[rodgerfox]

Well perhaps look at it this way...

Do you want to rely on success by being the "luckiest" team in the AFL?

Do you want to win a premiership only in a year when you had extrodinary luck?


Look at Freo...is fitness the only reason why they have not been more successful than they have? No.

Should Freo, given their list, have been more successful than they have (not necessarilly a GF win). IMO, yes.


The Lions knocked off the Pies in a GF when the Lions fielded a team full of injuries and niggles....but they won? Was it due to luck on the Day? No.



Now my OP may have beena bit too black and white...but sometimnes to get some discussion it is good to do that.

But in conclusion the Cat's flag in 2007 hada lot LOT more to do with getting things right and hard work than it had to do with lady luck.


As a poster said in anorther string..

"The harder I work, the luckier I get".

Winning the GF is a lot more about doing most things right than it is being that year's lottery winner.

Luck doesn't guarantee success.

But without, it will guarantee failure.

History proves this. It's a simple fact.

Some clubs have won flags simply because they got lucky, others have won flags because they had more luck than the 2 or 3 other clubs that are their equal in terms of ability.

Geelong are a good side no doubt. 2006 they had no luck, 2007 they had great luck.

The results sum it up perfectly.

[rodgerfox]

The Lions knocked off the Pies in a GF when the Lions fielded a team full of injuries and niggles....but they won? Was it due to luck on the Day? No.

That's a perfect example.

They still managed to get the players on the field for a start.

Then they came up against a mentally fragile club when it comes to winning flags. Not only that, they came up against the club with the weakest ruck division in the comp.

Had Port rolled Collingwood the week before, it may have, infact most likely would have been a very different story.

Luck plays the biggest part in footy.

[bigcarl]

will be interesting whether we field a closer-to-full-strength team next week if geelong wins

[plugger66]

will be interesting whether we field a closer-to-full-strength team next week if geelong wins

Only players back would be Gram and Gilbert.

[StSteven]

The Cats looked very "lucky" today...... Melbourne players played the role of witches' hats......training drill.

[SaintBot]

will be interesting whether we field a closer-to-full-strength team next week if geelong wins

Only players back would be Gram and Gilbert.

no riewoldt?

[saintsRrising]

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/k ... 72045.html

King could not have imagined that after his premiership success in September, he'd be playing for St Kilda in mid-February, but would be counting his blessings the Saints threw him a lifeline and looked fit and committed to repaying the favour. "At the moment I'm just rapt to just be getting a game and just trying to fit in," he said after Friday night's 40-point win over the Tigers.

King said he was feeling more confident about drawing on his own leadership history to contribute more. "I think actions speak louder than words when you first come to a club, so you just try and knuckle down and do the hard work through the pre-season," he said. "Now that games are coming around I'm slowly getting out of my shell a bit more. There's a hell of a lot of experience at this club, as well, but if I can share my experience that I've learnt over my time at Geelong, then hopefully that just adds something to the group."

For King, there are also shades of the familiar about his first pre-season with the Saints following a summer shakedown at Moorabbin, highlighted by a new-look fitness department working to bury the injury struggles that have haunted the team over the past few years: "I probably experienced something similar that Geelong did the year before."

[StSteven]

Kingy is a class act but he lost the captaincy because he is a shy introverted and under confident type. He will put in everything but the realitry is he cannot jump anymore. Blake will be a very interesting ruck comparison next week.

[saintsRrising]

.

Knowing Mick Malthouse personally, I can assure you he runs the show.

The Conditioning Manager or High Performance Manager and everyone in the joint relating to footy, answer to Mick.

He's the boss.

It's the way it should be. And the way all the premiers of the past 100 years have done it.

It's also, whether you believe it or not in your fantasy world, the way Lyon does it.


.

Heard Brown of the Lions on SEN on the way to work today...

Was interesting hearing Brown talk...but one thing he mentioned was on players fitness and conditioning.

He was praising the Lions fitness guys and mentioned how they might have to tell the coaches to back off on certain players.

To me this is another examaple of how matrix management is now commonplace at AFL clubs.

[bigcarl]

good time to bump this thread.

an early-season victory over the moggies would sound a warning that we are coming for them

it must burn in the guts of all our players that they have a premiership and we don't

[saintsRrising]

good time to bump this thread.

an early-season victory over the moggies would sound a warning that we are coming for them

it must burn in the guts of all our players that they have a premiership and we don't

Yes as the Cats are the "yardstick" team......the game should have a bit more edge to it (plus King vs Blake in the ruck).

Both teams have some significant players out though.

[saintsRrising]

I thought I might bump this thread as it would seem relevant at present.

Is our new found success lucky????


Or is it more that since the coach dropped Dal and Milney last year that the team have committed to working harder as a TEAM.


A year on it would seem to me that we have a really good chance of being better than the Cats...or at least competitive with them....and I do not think it has much at all to do with luck.

Like the Cats we too are demanding that players step up and deliver more.

Those that could not do this week in week out have been discarded (ie Fiora).