a graders

[sasaint]

Allen is reported as willing but slow.

He can't be that slow. He was top-10 in the repeat sprints in 2006.

From the December 14th training report... maybe slow is not correct rather unfit?

Some other interesting things out of the 3km time trial they had before training was Eddy won in 9.53 with the usual suspects up the front. Jarryd Allen was last in 11.30 or so but it was his best time apparently.

[Saints43]

I've always felt that way too. I don't consider [Dal Santo] an A Grade player because his best & worst are too far apart.

Dal Santo is among the best users of the ball in the entire league. He was held under 15 disposals just twice all year this year. And because Hayes and Ball were less than 100%, he had a Brady Rawlings type stapled to him every week. If Stewart thinks he's a 7/10, then I'd say Stewart has impossibly high standards (not altogether surprising). IMO Dal's one of the top ten mids in the game. If he's not A-grade, then practically nobody is.

IMO Dal Santo is in the top 3 if not the single best user of the ball in the league...
We really need to find a way in which we can make the most of his skill, IMO with Hayes and Ball at full fitness we would be better off with Dal as a 100% outside midfielder, use Ball and Hayes and maybe even a third midfielder like Montagna as the inside midfielders doing the grunt work, let Dal receive it from the outside and hit a target, because if this year is any judge he is pretty much the only player who can consistently hit a target in the forward 50 (other than the great man)

Are we watching the same player? The one I watch doesn't start in the centre very often. And that's with Ball stuffed & Hayes returning from a knee.

I'm not questioning his skills (great) but how many centre bounces does he start in the centre?

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From the December 14th training report... maybe slow is not correct rather unfit?

That sounds more likely. He's coming off a broken leg, so he's lost pretty much an entire year of development. He may have lost some fitness and speed during his recovery. Time will tell whether he gets it back.

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Are we watching the same player? The [Dal Santo] I watch doesn't start in the centre very often.

RL names him on the ball nearly every week, usually in the RR spot. He's always top-3 on the team in in things like clearances and contested possessions. Our first choice midfield has been Ball, Dal and Hayes since at least 2004. I don't know where you think he plays, but he's an in and under onballer. He's one of the best in the league.

[Huzzad]

Are we watching the same player? The [Dal Santo] I watch doesn't start in the centre very often.

RL names him on the ball nearly every week, usually in the RR spot. He's always top-3 on the team in in things like clearances and contested possessions. Our first choice midfield has been Ball, Dal and Hayes since at least 2004. I don't know where you think he plays, but he's an in and under onballer. He's one of the best in the league.

Exactly. Never seen him really start anywhere else, except maybe in the pocket for a breather but can't recall him playing anywhere else since he earned regular selection. Look at the starting line ups for 07

I'll save you the trouble... He is a line up from 07 With ball and lenny also in the side...



ST KILDA
B: Sam Gilbert, Matt Maguire, Leigh Fisher
HB: Jason Gram, Sam Fisher, Steven Baker
C: Aaron Fiora, Lenny Hayes, Leigh Montagna
HF: Xavier Clarke, Nick Riewoldt, Raphael Clarke
F: Stephen Milne, Fraser Gehrig, Shane Birss
FOLL:Justin Koschitzke, Nick Dal Santo, Luke Ball
I/C: Jason Blake, Matthew Clarke, Matt Ferguson, Brett Voss
EMG: Clinton Jones, Jayden Attard, Andrew McQualter

[Barney2]

Voss is retired mate

[Shaggy]

Voss is retired mate

But not forgotten. Add Vossy, Black, Sammy & Powell in their hay day to our current list and we have the premiership.

Our A graders today are Roo, Lenny and Dal.

Kosi could be our second best to Roo if he has an injury free run this year.

Roo ultimately could be recognised as the greatest Saint of all but he needs to win us a a premiership (or two).

[Saints43]

Are we watching the same player? The [Dal Santo] I watch doesn't start in the centre very often.

RL names him on the ball nearly every week, usually in the RR spot. He's always top-3 on the team in in things like clearances and contested possessions. Our first choice midfield has been Ball, Dal and Hayes since at least 2004. I don't know where you think he plays, but he's an in and under onballer. He's one of the best in the league.

Exactly. Never seen him really start anywhere else, except maybe in the pocket for a breather

Thanks for the team list... We'll have to agree to disagree but I don't reckon he starts in the guts all that often.

But that's just my opinion from being at the ground.

vs, You can get a clearence/contested possesion anywhere on the ground. NDS takles & possesions are nealy always behind the centre (because it's where he plays the majority of his footy). That's why he had 17 shots at goal in 22 matches.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Are we watching the same player? The [Dal Santo] I watch doesn't start in the centre very often.

RL names him on the ball nearly every week, usually in the RR spot. He's always top-3 on the team in in things like clearances and contested possessions. Our first choice midfield has been Ball, Dal and Hayes since at least 2004. I don't know where you think he plays, but he's an in and under onballer. He's one of the best in the league.

Exactly. Never seen him really start anywhere else, except maybe in the pocket for a breather

Thanks for the team list... We'll have to agree to disagree but I don't reckon he starts in the guts all that often.

But that's just my opinion from being at the ground.

You've got me scratching my head.

I honestly can't recall the last game Dal played where he didn't start in the square... but as you say, we can only agree to disagree. I will be shocked however if he's not in the square at the start of round 1... and round 2... and round 3...

GT used to occasionally play him off the HBF or up forward to shake taggers, but with him being the only healthy top flight mid last year (love Harves and all, and am continually amazed by how good he still is... but couldn't fathom some of the commentators saying that he was in as good form as he's ever been, 10 years ago he was the best mid in the comp, and he doesn't draw a hard tag these days) Lyon leaned on him heavily. For the first half of the year, Montagna went from outisde mid to inside for the first time in his career, and looked pretty good, but later in the year was more outside again - which probably is simply a result of fitness, not a knock, but I suspect the necessary base to be an engine room midfielder all year long cannot be fathomed until it's accomplished, and as big a year as '07 was for Joey, '08 could be even bigger. If our first rotation (Dal, Ball, Hayes) is fit for '08, our second rotation of Harvey, Montagna, anyone will be our deepest centre in some time... even before we contemplate the likely inclusion of Bakes the moment he's available and other tagging options in the meantime.

He wins a boatload of contested ball. He uses it well. The only possible knock on Dal IMO is overcoming the best taggers, which should be allievated by healthier Hayes and hopefully Ball... and (perhaps) Montagna, if any of those 3 struggle, Joey's knocking on the door. Can't see it being Dal who makes way though.

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vs, You can get a clearence/contested possesion anywhere on the ground. NDS takles & possesions are nealy always behind the centre (because it's where he plays the majority of his footy). That's why he had 17 shots at goal in 22 matches.

Ball had 14 shots at goal and Hayes had 12. Harves had all of seven. Our mids don't get a lot of shots at goal.

[Saints43]

vs, You can get a clearence/contested possesion anywhere on the ground. NDS takles & possesions are nealy always behind the centre (because it's where he plays the majority of his footy). That's why he had 17 shots at goal in 22 matches.

Ball had 14 shots at goal and Hayes had 12. Harves had all of seven. Our mids don't get a lot of shots at goal.

Ball can't kick over a jam tin due to OP & Hayes was coming back from a knee (and it's true - not a renowned goal kicker even when fit).
My point was that NDS who IS a beautiful kick didn't have shots at goal because last year he spent a great deal of his time behind the play.
And, That clearence/contested possesion stats don't make him an 'in & under' midfielder.
Hamill would have had good clearence/contested stats as well.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

vs, You can get a clearence/contested possesion anywhere on the ground. NDS takles & possesions are nealy always behind the centre (because it's where he plays the majority of his footy). That's why he had 17 shots at goal in 22 matches.

Ball had 14 shots at goal and Hayes had 12. Harves had all of seven. Our mids don't get a lot of shots at goal.

Ball can't kick over a jam tin due to OP & Hayes was coming back from a knee (and it's true - not a renowned goal kicker even when fit).
My point was that NDS who IS a beautiful kick didn't have shots at goal because last year he spent a great deal of his time behind the play.
And, That clearence/contested possesion stats don't make him an 'in & under' midfielder.
Hamill would have had good clearence/contested stats as well.

Ball's OP and Hayes injury have nothing to do with shots at goal. Conversion yes, but not opportunity, at least not significantly enough to make Dal's 17 shots smaller than it is.

Saints midfielders simply don't kick for the big sticks. Haven't for years. I wish they would. Didn't realise that Dal had more shots that Lenny and Ball, but the trend across the 3 says your stat doesn't havef anything to do with where he played.

Hammill didn't have good clearance stats (compared to Dal, or any other clearance mid anyway). He didn't play on the ball enough. In v Out really can be told from the stats - under 30% contested, you're receiving (out) over 30 you're getting it yourself (in)... over 30% with a high clearance count, you're going, getting the ball at a stoppage, and getting it to an outside teammate - "in and under". Maybe a confusing comment given we associate Dal with fluid movement with the ball, and a Ball or a Powell with diving in and handballing out, but the phrase is really aimed at the guys who do the dirty work to win the ball - Dal does.

Add in his ball use to the way he wins it, amount of it he wins, and the kind of pressure he wins it under and IMO you've got an A grade midfielder. With the breakup of the big 3 in WC, I can't think of a team he wouldn't start in the middle for.

[Saints43]

I can't think of a team he wouldn't start in the middle for.

Well, this is what we are discussing.

What percentage of centre bounces did Dal start in the centre square in 2007?

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My point was that NDS who IS a beautiful kick didn't have shots at goal because last year he spent a great deal of his time behind the play.

He did have shots at goal though. The 18 he had in 07 is right in line with what our regular on ballers have had over recent years. His score assists have also been right in line with our other on ballers. If he spent a lot of time on the outside, behind the play, he would have had trouble getting a lot of contested ball. The thing is, he's been number 1 at the club in contested possessions two years running. The only two guys who get more clearances are Ball and Hayes.

[Otiman]

But not forgotten. Add Vossy, Black, Sammy & Powell in their hay day to our current list and we have the premiership.

The game would have surpassed Powell.