a graders

[big_mac_evoy5]

i was on big footy people seem to think the only a grader we have is rooey and that isn't true.
we have :

a grade
rooey
dal santo
kosi
ball ( when not injured)
sam fisher.

up and comming
x-man
grammy
goddard

future
allen ( around the club they think he will be a gun)
armitage mc evoy

[saintbrat]

welcome big_mac_evoy5

[LTN16]

welcome big_mac_evoy5

Yes Welcome but did you know that his name is spelt McEvoy not MacEvoy.

[cwrcyn]

A GRADE

Riewoldt
HARVEY
Hayes
Dal Santo
Gram
Ball
Goddard
Hudghton
S.Fisher

A CHANCE TO BECOME A GRADE THIS YEAR

X.Clarke
Montagna

[st_Trav_ofWA]

i was on big footy

theres your first mistake big footy should be re named elbows and asses as most on there wouldnt know the differance between them

[Saints43]

a grade
dal santo

Did anyone else hear Ian Stewart on SEN last week (sorry if this has already been mentioned but I didn't see it anywhere) when asked to rate #26 said "He doesn't do enough". Rated him a 7/10 but if he worked harder could be 9/10.

I've always felt that way too. I don't consider him an A Grade player because his best & worst are too far apart.

I would only rate Riewoldt, Hudghton, Harvey & Hayes as top level performers.
Consistency of performance over a number of seasons.

[awesome_days]

Had a quick look at that thread on BF, the problem was the varying qualifications of an A-grader.

Here is my definitions:

A: Top 5-10% of listed players - these guys are consistent match-winners over at least 3 years. 5-10% means on average there will be 2-4 A graders per list. Once you achieve A grade status and hold it for 5 years you can retain it until you retire.

B: Next 20-30% of lsted players - these are the backbone of your team and determine your level of success. These guys are either inconsistent matchwinners or guys who will beat or break even with their opponent 20/22 times a year. On average there will be 8-12 of these players on each list. These guys are automatic selections when fit.

C: Next 30-40% of listed players - your good players who hold their own in an AFL game. Will never get flogged by an equal opponent but will rarely comprehensively beat someone. These guys are always wary of their positions on the list. On average there will be 12 - 16 of these players.

D: Next 20 - 30% of listed players - up and coming players who are given a bit of leeway due to their youth. It is unfair to brand untried people into grades yet. These are first/second/third year players who have not been given an extended chance to prove their abilities in the AFL. On average there will be 8 - 12 of these players.

F: Next 10 - 25% of listed players - players that will be delisted at years end due to not being AFL quality (or fit) and outliving the "D" grading. On average there will be 4 - 10 of these players.

At St Kilda my rankings are:

A (4): Riewoldt Hayes SFisher Harvey (lifetime membership)
B (10): Dal Santo Koschitzke Maguire Hughton Ball Goddard Gherig Montagna Gram Gilbert
C (14): XClarke Blake RClarke Baker Dempster CGardiner LFisher King MGardiner Milne Schneider Fiora Birss Attard
D (12): Armitage Howard Allen Geary Eddy McEvoy Steven Connors Van Rheenan Chivers Miles Harekatu
F (5): Ferguson Jones McQualter Gwilt Rix

[Richter]

Interesting one awesome days. Difficult to separate out the "immediate A grader" to the "medium term" A grader.

For instance.....

Goddard - A grade in early 2007 (prior to injury) but on his return?

Ball - in 2004-5 A grade but last year - ?C grade. Class clearly remains though. Can he pull past his OP related problems and shione again.

Gehrig - Has been A grade but probably now B since last season.

Harvey has been A grade for best part of 20 years, but now B.

Dal - for mine has been A grade for last 4 seasons.

Hayes - A grade - injury interrupted early 2007 - showing true worth towards the end of the year

Kosi - B grade but has shown flashes of A grade.

etc.etc.

Anyway, merry Xmas to all at the Saints and all fellow posters.

Here's hoping for a big 2008 ending with 45 A graders!

[big_mac_evoy5]

yeah i know i like to call him big mac or big ben. lol plus my favourite number was nmber 5 i was going to make my name kosi is king23 sorry for being off topic

[Huzzad]

F (5): Ferguson Jones McQualter Gwilt Rix

Have to disagee with a few of you there. Gwilt, needs a few more games but has proved to play well on opposition forwards. Consistancy lacks but wouldn't rate him as F. Jones played 50-50 games, the first few he played very well though the last he struggled with injury. Not worthy of a F selection though, this kid has alot more talent than you give him credit for.
As for Rix, are you insane? Played most of the games this year and in the many replays I've seen again, he was a strong performer with 1%ers and tackles, was really developing in the ruck and lead strongly. He is not the best player, but no way does he deserve an F. As for McQualter and Ferguson though, I do agree there.

[awesome_days]

I tried to cover off the situation by saying an A grade is an elite and has proven so over the years. Also, a lot of people would say if you can sustain an A grade quality over 8+ years you deserve the tag for life.

Most people would have had Hird Buckley et al in the A grade category at the beginning of last year from their prolonged brilliance. Only the elite can maintain this level for the majority of their career. These elite players, regardles of their age are still matchwinners and still rack up the possessions.

The B grade rating covers off the medium term A graders who have been inconsistent (Dal Santo & Kosi) or injured and would otherwise be A graders (Goddard & Ball).

Weather Dal Santo is an A grader s a whole other argument. I feel he has A grade potential but he gets beaten or kept out of a game four or five times a year making him just a little too inconsistent. My 4th A spot was between him and Sam Fisher. Fisher jsut got it as I can not remember him being beaten in the last 2 years.

Goddard will be an A grader if he can maintain this seasons early form pre injury through the second half of next season as that will qualify him as his 3 years of A grade quality play.

Gherig has never been an A grader in terms of being a consistent match winner. He has always been a B grader. Matthew Lloyd is the only current FF who could lay claim to being an A grade FF.

[battye]

A grade players: Harvey, Riewoldt

[woooosaints]

A-Grade Hayes Dal Santo Riewoldt

dont kid yourself otherwise guys like sam fisher might be great players but at the end of the day he is still a third tall HBF. Robert Harvey was A+ but now dont cut it. I think we have alot of B-Grade Players

B-Grade Sam Fisher Jason Gram Leigh Montagna Fraser Gehrig Stephen Baker Stephen Milne Rob Harvey Justin Koschitzke Brendan Goddard Max Hudgton

A few unlucky to miss out due to last years out of form Luke Ball Matt Maguire all capable of being A+ players but injury lack of form last year dont deserve them to be B+

[Armoooo]

It depends on what you base the criteria on, in terms of talen you will see guys like Jared Brennan, on terms of consistency you will see guys like James McDonald...

IMO of what our team looks like is this:
A+ Riewoldt, Dal Santo
A Hayes, Ball, Goddard
B+ Fisher, Gram, Montagna, Koschitzke
B Maguire, Gehrig, Gilbert, Milne, Baker, King, Schneider
C+ Attard, L.Fisher, Fiora, X.Clarke, Birss
C R.Clarke, Blake, Dempster, Armitage
D+ C.Gardiner, Gwilt
D Ferguson, Howard
E+ McQualter
E
F+ Rix
F Jones

Too soon to tell: Allen, McEvoy, Steven, Eddy, Geary, Van Rheenan, Haretuku, Miles, Chivers, Connors

Former greats: Harvey, Hudghton and Gardiner (I thought it was unfair to rate these guys because they are all proven great players who aren't what they used to be)

[Unforgiven]

I agree with Armoo, that Xavier is C+ at best really.

A graders, are Roo, Lenny.

Dal and Sam Fisher are up there

[Armoooo]

Yeah I reckon that a few on here overrate Xavier, he does have the potential and I would love to see it come out however I just don't see it happening anytime soon, fingers crosses because a consistent, injury free Xavier could be HUGE!!

[vacuous space]

I've always felt that way too. I don't consider [Dal Santo] an A Grade player because his best & worst are too far apart.

Dal Santo is among the best users of the ball in the entire league. He was held under 15 disposals just twice all year this year. And because Hayes and Ball were less than 100%, he had a Brady Rawlings type stapled to him every week. If Stewart thinks he's a 7/10, then I'd say Stewart has impossibly high standards (not altogether surprising). IMO Dal's one of the top ten mids in the game. If he's not A-grade, then practically nobody is.

[Armoooo]

I've always felt that way too. I don't consider [Dal Santo] an A Grade player because his best & worst are too far apart.

Dal Santo is among the best users of the ball in the entire league. He was held under 15 disposals just twice all year this year. And because Hayes and Ball were less than 100%, he had a Brady Rawlings type stapled to him every week. If Stewart thinks he's a 7/10, then I'd say Stewart has impossibly high standards (not altogether surprising). IMO Dal's one of the top ten mids in the game. If he's not A-grade, then practically nobody is.

IMO Dal Santo is in the top 3 if not the single best user of the ball in the league...
We really need to find a way in which we can make the most of his skill, IMO with Hayes and Ball at full fitness we would be better off with Dal as a 100% outside midfielder, use Ball and Hayes and maybe even a third midfielder like Montagna as the inside midfielders doing the grunt work, let Dal receive it from the outside and hit a target, because if this year is any judge he is pretty much the only player who can consistently hit a target in the forward 50 (other than the great man)

[mad saint guy]

Using awsome_days' criteria, but excluding the "life membership rule".

A: Riewoldt, Hayes, S.Fisher, Hudghton, Dal Santo (5)
B: Koschitzke, Harvey, Ball, Maguire, Goddard, Montagna, Gram, Milne, Gehrig, Gilbert, Schneider, Fiora (12)
C: L.Fisher ,X.Clarke, R.Clarke, Blake, Baker, Dempster, King, Birss, Attard, Gwilt, McQualter, M.Gardiner (12)
D: Armitage, Howard, Allen, Geary, Eddy, McEvoy, Steven, Connors, van Rheenen, Chivers, Miles, Haretuku (12)
F: Ferguson, Jones, Rix, C.Gardiner (4)

[Armoooo]

MSG, have you taken Hudghton's position into account when labeling him an A grader? it just seems a bit strange to me naming Max an A grader...

[Otiman]

welcome big_mac_evoy5

Yes Welcome but did you know that his name is spelt McEvoy not MacEvoy.

And did you know that you don't go into McDonalds and buy a Big Mc?

[Armoooo]

welcome big_mac_evoy5

Yes Welcome but did you know that his name is spelt McEvoy not MacEvoy.

And did you know that you don't go into McDonalds and buy a Big Mc?

Haha, I didn't pick up on that either, quite clever

[sasaint]

allen ( around the club they think he will be a gun)

First I've heard that mentioned. Allen is reported as willing but slow. I hope big mac is correct. It would be handy to have another useful tall.

[peter lockwood]

We have some great players but in my opinion we have only 2 A graders in Roo & Dal.Harvey is a dead set legendary icon of the game but no longer an A grader.Hayes & Ball were before injuries and S.Fisher is well on his way.

[vacuous space]

Allen is reported as willing but slow.

He can't be that slow. He was top-10 in the repeat sprints in 2006.