Which Ruckman Will It Be ??

[n1ck]

I reckon we should look at perhaps a quick midfielder

i agree with that.

Clayton Collard?

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Maybe we have our quota of ruckmen now.

Think about it: King, Gardiner, Rix, Koschitzke (can be used as a back-up), McEvoy and if we run into injury trouble there's always the option of promoting Van Rheenan.

I reckon we should look at perhaps a quick midfielder or tall defender for pre-season/rookie list.

There is still question mark over King and Gardiner. If both of them go down our Rucks would have to be Rix/Koschitzke or Rix/McEvoy. Just think in a couple of years down the track King and Gardiner will retire and we will have to have some ready replacements. I just think if we get another Ruckman in the Rookie Draft we will have Van Rheenen, McEvoy and a ??(Rookie) waiting in the wings and that should provide us with a good future in the Ruck.

Can't say I see a problem - but then I'm of the persuasion that Kosi is better used in the ruck (no co-incidence that Cox went nuts at Subi once Kosi had to be played solely at FF). If both are injured, we're not worse off than we were for the majority of '07 - and possibly better (not convinced Rix gave enough in the ruck to make up for his around the ground, so I'll be interested to see whether McEvoy would be capable of playing #2 in the AFL).

Once Gardiner and King are retired, provided one of McEvoy and Van Rheenan makes the AFL, that gives us 2 AFL ruckmen. AFL list are too short to have 3 bona fide rucks (i.e. at least #2 AFLers - not Rix) for long anyway without resting at least 1 (Kosi/McEvoy) up forward regularly in the seniors.

We'll cross the bridge of waiting in the wings and depth once the retirements happen (and I wouldn't be surprised if either one is sooner rather than later - further extending the career of Rix). IMO another ruckman right now just spends too many list spots in a place where only one guy at a time can play.

[vacuous space]

If King and Gardiner are playing in the seniors and McEvoy and Rix are playing for the scorps, there won't be much game time for VR, Haretuku or anyone from the rookie draft. There's a few decent rucks available in the rookie draft, but unless we really like one of them, I'd think we'd go with a couple of smaller players on the rookie list. If Aaron Joseph is there at #8, my guess is we'll take him. Maybe Bail at #24.

[saintsRrising]

Can't say I see a problem - but then I'm of the persuasion that Kosi is better used in the ruck (no co-incidence that Cox went nuts at Subi once Kosi had to be played solely at FF). .

Was that the game where Kosi's 4 goals at FF helped to turn the game????


Personanlly I think Kosi is a very good key forward......and only an average ruckman.

In ruck contests he postions his body poorly and his tap work is not good.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Can't say I see a problem - but then I'm of the persuasion that Kosi is better used in the ruck (no co-incidence that Cox went nuts at Subi once Kosi had to be played solely at FF). .

Was that the game where Kosi's 4 goals at FF helped to turn the game????


Personanlly I think Kosi is a very good key forward......and only an average ruckman.

In ruck contests he postions his body poorly and his tap work is not good.

That was the game where Kosi kicked 4 1st half goals pushing forward to dominate the half. Would ruck and push forward - every time they swapped Glass onto him he went back into the ruck, and then when Glass came off him he'd push forward again.

Then he injured himself played the 2nd half at FF and couldn't get the ball.

IMO, Kosi struggles as a set FF, still needs to work on the tap, but is as good an around the ground ruckman as there is in the AFL, be it pushing forward, back, or around the middle including roving his own ball.

[saintsRrising]

Would ruck and push forward - every time they swapped Glass onto him he went back into the ruck, and then when Glass came off him he'd push forward again.

Kosi won a massive 2 hot outs that game.....


So yes noted how he played....but ask yourseld where he had greater impact....when he went forward...or when he was rucking???

Then he injured himself played the 2nd half at FF and couldn't get the ball.

IMO, Kosi struggles as a set FF, still needs to work on the tap, but is as good an around the ground ruckman as there is in the AFL, be it pushing forward, back, or around the middle including roving his own ball.

I would play Kosi at CHF ish myself.... with only occassional run on the bal...but yes contesting tap outs in the forward line on occassion.



And as too....as good an around the ground ruckman as there is in the AFL.. we will just have to agree to disagree on that as I would have Coxa few rungs above Kosi in that regard.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Would ruck and push forward - every time they swapped Glass onto him he went back into the ruck, and then when Glass came off him he'd push forward again.

Kosi won a massive 2 hot outs that game.....


So yes noted how he played....but ask yourseld where he had greater impact....when he went forward...or when he was rucking???

Surely the answer to that is that he had the greatest impact pushing forward from the ruck and kicking 4 goals. Kosi definately needs to work on his tap, and was definately not on a level with Cox & Seaby in that regard (in total St. K got out tapped 40 to 19 - love to know the adv #s for the first half, and see if there's any redemption for us... I think I recall nobody was winning clean clearances in the 1st half, but would need to watch the game again).

However, Kosi v Glass was simply not anywhere near as far in our favour as Kosi v anyone else... and as well as kicking 4, he created matchup headaches (including moving back into the ruck to move Glass away from the square allowing Rix to become the unmatchable man and actually get one) for WCE that disappeared after half time.

His tapwork will improve with time. His ability to command the ground anywhere on the field is wasted if we use him solely at FF. I know people expect him to improve at a single position (and he likely will), but if that position is ruck, we don't sacrifice one of my favorite Kosi characteristics dating back to the run in '04 - wherever there's trouble, put Kosi there and watch the situation turn in our favour.

Then he injured himself played the 2nd half at FF and couldn't get the ball.

IMO, Kosi struggles as a set FF, still needs to work on the tap, but is as good an around the ground ruckman as there is in the AFL, be it pushing forward, back, or around the middle including roving his own ball.

I would play Kosi at CHF ish myself.... with only occassional run on the bal...but yes contesting tap outs in the forward line on occassion.



And as too....as good an around the ground ruckman as there is in the AFL.. we will just have to agree to disagree on that as I would have Coxa few rungs above Kosi in that regard.

For Kosi at CHF, I think it was you who suggested Roo at FF with Kosi at CHF. I think this is a good thing to try - only thing being that Roo often starts his leads from much deeper in the Forward line than other CHFs anyway, to beat them on speed early before he uses his engine to run them into the ground. Otherwise, I think Roo's ability to take a contested mark is often forgotten because we see him schooling opponents on the lead so much - so i like the idea.

As an overall ruckman, I do have Cox above Kosi. Cox does everything, and is simply the best in the business. I think Kosi gets poorly represented because of the HO statsline though (improve this, and he'd be an elite ruckman), once the ball hits the deck, without any disrespect to Cox, Kosi ticks all the boxes too. One thing the both do is ensure that even if they don't win a hitout to advantage, it's difficult to really beat the midfield when they're in it, because after the hitout the both become a 4th man in tight.

Regardless of the hitouts stat, Kosi was by far the most effective ruck for the Saints in '07, and in any game where we don't have both Gardiner and King in '08, if Kosi gets a run, I will be expecting good things to happen.

[saintsRrising]

in any game where we don't have both Gardiner and King in '08, if Kosi gets a run, I will be expecting good things to happen.

ah...well in that situation then yes Kosi would be up there for rucktime.....for while Blake can do cameos he is not a full time option....and while Rix competes in the ruck, he does not do well around the ground. And VR most likely not be ready....and with McEvoy lets give him some time as he is only 18.


Roo at FF...yes that was an ide I had pre_Gtrain's return...

I quite like Roo at Ff...though the idea was not that he spend 100% of his time there....but the majority with Kosi at CHF....but with both interchaning..


Roo improved I thought in his contested marking last year..and is not just aleading forward anymore.





With the G back...I can currently favour:


Roo Kosi Schneider
Milne GTrain Mid


Hopefully X can gain some confidence kicking at goal.



Back On Kosi....I am not saying that he cannot become a good ruckman, but just that as I currently see it he is not one.



I like him moving in space.....so hence CHF...where he can bea target as well as running back to Ff for those pack marks on occassion....an aspect of the game where Kosi is arguably one of the best in the AFL at present.



To play ona FB as good as glass Kosi needs to learn to use his body better...



kosi I rate as a very good footballer.....however he is kind of almost a position in many position.


Almost a ruckmen...almost a key forward...or almost a CHB.

He is nowa bit too cumbersome for CHB as now that he has filled out he is not quite nimble enough for CHB anymore...well at least not on all match-ups.

Up forward I would try and force a match -up where he is on the second best key defender and not the best. In this way I think he will really shine for us. GTrain or Roo to draw the best. this will mean that Kosis position will very....but at present amongst the beter teams there are probably more really good FB's that really good CHBs.