Kosi at FF? Why?

[rodgerfox]

How many teams actually have a traditional FF anyway?

I don't want to see us play a traditional forward line at all.

I'd basically like to see 4 guys playing as 'forward on-ballers' in our 50.

Roo, Milne, Schneider, Dal, Ball, Harves, BJ, Bakes, Gilbert, X, Fiora, Kosi and Sam Fisher are ones who I would want to make up that 4 throughout a match.

Obviously depending on midfield and defensive matchups.

You need marking targets. You need leading targets. You need fierce defenders. You need forwards who are comfortable when the ball is on the ground or in general play - and not just in the air.

So, I don't think Kosi should play traditional FF. At times he may take the 'marking target' role, but I'd much prefer him to drift forward as opposed to be being based there.


Kosi has never kicked more than 5 in a game remember. When he has kicked 5 a couple of times, 3 or 4 of those on each occasion were when he actually rucking.

It's not as if he's a freak like Roo who when he has played FF he's kicked 9.

I think we're overrating Kosi as a FF.

[bigred]

Kosi's most consistant performances were in his first year at CHB.

Plonking him in the goalsquare @ FF is simplistic and wastefull.

Just to add to the discussion, do you reckon he could train up the same aerobic capacity as Roo?

Or close to it?

[Joffa Burns]

Kossi @ FF why?

Because gehrig retired

[HarveysDeciple]

I like Kozi at full forward because I believe we function superbly when he is there..
He can push up and present on the lead, or he can wrestle and take towering marks in the square.

That Eagles game saw our forward line function better then it did all year.

[rodgerfox]

I like Kozi at full forward because I believe we function superbly when he is there..
He can push up and present on the lead, or he can wrestle and take towering marks in the square.

That Eagles game saw our forward line function better then it did all year.

Some interesting figures from that Eagles game....

West Coast Statistic St Kilda
208 Kicks 201
145 Handballs 138
353 Disposals 339
50 Tackles 65
40 Hitouts 19
19 Frees For 29
32.09 Disposals Per Goal 22.60
16.81 Disps Per Scoring Shot 14.12



West Coast Goals From St Kilda
3 Mark 6
1 Free Kick 3
7 Play 6


What these stats tell me, is that our midfield did what it was meant to. First to the ball, tackled hard and didn't overuse the ball.

In turn, we goaled every 22.6 disposals and ended up with 15 goals.

Alot of people use the West Coast game as a reason for Kosi playing FF, but really I believe Kosi's game was purely a result of the way our midfield played.


Having said that then, perhaps if our midfield really dominates then Kosi could make it very hard for other teams based on that game.

[CURLY]

Kosi at full foward why? Thats easy hes the best contested mark in the AFL and he demands constant attention from a first rate defender. That West Coast game people forget that Glass was shutting down Roo and when no one else could go with Kosi the switch was made. Roo then came into the game and took over.

The argument that if your midfield plays well its easier to kick goals is true but a tall marking forward is essential when your midfields down someone who can take a contested grab like Kosi and doesnt rely on lace out delivery can make the differance. Kosi defanatly for me to have first cack at FF rotating at CHF and pinch hit in the ruck.

[rodgerfox]

Kosi at full foward why? Thats easy hes the best contested mark in the AFL and he demands constant attention from a first rate defender. That West Coast game people forget that Glass was shutting down Roo and when no one else could go with Kosi the switch was made. Roo then came into the game and took over.

The argument that if your midfield plays well its easier to kick goals is true but a tall marking forward is essential when your midfields down someone who can take a contested grab like Kosi and doesnt rely on lace out delivery can make the differance. Kosi defanatly for me to have first cack at FF rotating at CHF and pinch hit in the ruck.

My question to you then is -

Why has Kosi never kicked more than 4 in a game when playing at FF?

[bigcarl]

My question to you then is -

Why has Kosi never kicked more than 4 in a game when playing at FF?

has he ever actually played a full game at full forward?

[CURLY]

As I am not privvy to game plans or training methods I can only guess that perhaps he hasnt had a full pre season when he is the focal point. Yes he has all the attribute to play FF but a lot of time is put into learning when to lead and the right spots to run into. If this is RL plans to have at FF and he gets a full pre season training for the position and hes left there for extended period I cant see why he cant kick more goals.

[vacuous space]

He'll probably be named at FF, but I doubt he spends a full game coming out of the goal square. More likely he and Roo will rotate as deep forwards and playing further up the ground, with King spending some time up forward from time to time as well.

[CURLY]

How many teams actually have a traditional FF anyway?

I don't want to see us play a traditional forward line at all.

I'd basically like to see 4 guys playing as 'forward on-ballers' in our 50.

Roo, Milne, Schneider, Dal, Ball, Harves, BJ, Bakes, Gilbert, X, Fiora, Kosi and Sam Fisher are ones who I would want to make up that 4 throughout a match.

Obviously depending on midfield and defensive matchups.

You need marking targets. You need leading targets. You need fierce defenders. You need forwards who are comfortable when the ball is on the ground or in general play - and not just in the air.

So, I don't think Kosi should play traditional FF. At times he may take the 'marking target' role, but I'd much prefer him to drift forward as opposed to be being based there.


Kosi has never kicked more than 5 in a game remember. When he has kicked 5 a couple of times, 3 or 4 of those on each occasion were when he actually rucking.

It's not as if he's a freak like Roo who when he has played FF he's kicked 9.

I think we're overrating Kosi as a FF.

How many teams that doent have a traditional full forward would like one would be the question.

[rodgerfox]

How many teams that doent have a full forward would like one would be the question.

I think all teams would love a 'key forward', but neccessarily a 'full forward'.

[CURLY]

We have the luxary of having two players capable of holding down both key foward roles there isnt a coach in the AFL that would knock that back.

[rodgerfox]

We have the luxary of having two players capable of holding down both key foward roles there isnt a coach in the AFL that would knock that back.

But I guess that's my point - in the modern game are there really 'two key forward roles'?


My other point is though that I don't think Kosi is capable of holding down a key forward role.

The only good game I've ever seen him play as a forward was against West Coast when Hunter was on him in the first half. Glass beat him comfortably in the second half.

I just don't think he's a natural forward.

[CURLY]

Kosi wasnt well beaten by Glass the focus was to kick the ball to Roo once Glass moved from him. Only teams that doent have two key forwards dont play two. Even sides that dont have players of Kosis and Roos ability will always endevour to play a traditional two key forward line.

[bigred]

I posted earlier that I thought that just plonking him at FF was simplistic..

And it is.

It would be far too predictable and far too easy for opposition to set up on.

Need to be much smarter with how he is utilised.

He could be such a weapon.

I have some sort of crazy vision of seeing him in a similar role as what Roo does...covering the same territory. AT THE SAME TIME.

I just see the one of them running up the ground while the other stays back for intervals...Would be an absolute NIGHTMARE for any side to cover. Having a massively mobile TALL forward line is near impossible to cover for pretty much every side in the league. They would be compromising other positions...

So much depends on how our Rucks stand up.

Mick Gardiner & Steven King SHOULD be pushing Kosi out of contention for it....If that actually eventuates.....



...I would expect Kos to come into his own...Especially if he can be in the one position for the whole season....

If only.

[CURLY]

Flags are won with predictability Brisbane won 3 in a row by playing a predictable game plan. Two key forwards and they just backed there blokes against all others. I say let Kosi and Roo loose.

[bigred]

Flags are won with predictability Brisbane won 3 in a row by playing a predictable game plan. Two key forwards and they just backed there blokes against all others. I say let Kosi and Roo loose.

PFFT...

And the best midfield in the comp by a country mile three years straight...

Dont forget their input.

[CURLY]

A midfield looks so much better when they boot it long and someone takes a strong contested grab, and it looks terrible when you kick it in long and the oppasition take the mark. Thats why a player like Kosi with a strong grab and is strong defensivly to bring it to ground is crucial.

[bigred]

They also look good when they kick goals from 60 odd meters out...

Bypassing their forwards completely.

[Broodruff]

I posted earlier that I thought that just plonking him at FF was simplistic..

And it is.

It would be far too predictable and far too easy for opposition to set up on.

Need to be much smarter with how he is utilised.

He could be such a weapon.

I have some sort of crazy vision of seeing him in a similar role as what Roo does...covering the same territory. AT THE SAME TIME.

I just see the one of them running up the ground while the other stays back for intervals...Would be an absolute NIGHTMARE for any side to cover. Having a massively mobile TALL forward line is near impossible to cover for pretty much every side in the league. They would be compromising other positions...

So much depends on how our Rucks stand up.

Mick Gardiner & Steven King SHOULD be pushing Kosi out of contention for it....If that actually eventuates.....



...I would expect Kos to come into his own...Especially if he can be in the one position for the whole season....

If only.

I agree with you... kinda.

If you were to just "plonk" Kosi in the goalsqaure, and just tell him to stand strong for the whole game. That would be a waste, yes.

Having both Roo and Kozi running around on the 50 metre arc would be a worrying thing for many teams, but I dont think it would really threaten the scoreboad as much as what I would like to see happen:

What I would love to see (time, time and time again ) is Roo running around the 50m arc, doing what he does best, looking up to find Kosi running rampant deep in the forward 50 would be a nightmare. Kosi is agile enough to play as a (new-age) full forward, and is agile enough to run around and collect the ball himself.

I think that full forwards of old have gone, paving the way for a new-age full forward, I think Kosi is the definition of what the new full-forward should be.

This way, when we are pushing up the ground we have three options.

1. Our mid-feilders push on and kick a goal on the run
2. Short pass to Roo who slots it from 40 out
3. Long to Kozi, who kicks truley from 10 out

Perfect.

[Teflon]

Kosi wasnt well beaten by Glass the focus was to kick the ball to Roo once Glass moved from him. Only teams that doent have two key forwards dont play two. Even sides that dont have players of Kosis and Roos ability will always endevour to play a traditional two key forward line.

Well said Curly....amazing how people look at a 1 on 1 contest and ignore the broader context of the game, the team match ups and plays once match ups occur.......some of the best games I saw Gehrig play he kicked 2 goals (Hamill also).....was ignored on the lead regularly......and played his part in the TEAM GAME to perfection..........................ahh...the experts.......

[rodgerfox]

some of the best games I saw Gehrig play he kicked 2 goals

Which games were they?

[CURLY]

some of the best games I saw Gehrig play he kicked 2 goals

Which games were they?

What you want a list of games?

A well co ordinated forward line will more than often have one or more players starved of oppurtunities for the good of the team. A forward who can draw the attention not only his own but a second defender on a lead will more than often open the door for lesser team mates who receive all the pats on the back by fans. But up in the coaches box the runner is being sent out to the bloke drawing the defenders telling him to keep moving and stay out of the dangerous spots with a pat on the back.

[rodgerfox]

some of the best games I saw Gehrig play he kicked 2 goals

Which games were they?

What you want a list of games?

Well yes.

It's a bizarre comment. A guy who kicked 6 twice in finals, kicked 10 in a game more than once and kicked 8 from CHF twice - yet his best games are when he's kicked 2?

Nonsense.

Grant Thomas used to use that line to put the public of the scent when Gehrig was in the shiits and ready to give it away. It was rubbish.

A player like Gehrig, in a position such as FF, has not played well if they kick 2. It doesn't mean they've been poor neccessarily as obviously there's more than just kicking goals. But you don't put a player on the park who can kick 100 goals in a season as a decoy and comsider his best games to be when he kicks 2.

As for Kosi, are we now saying to play him at FF to be a decoy? Use the most talented big man in the comp as a foil?

For the record also, we lost the second half against by 14 points. Had we not kicked 3 in the last 3 minutes, we would have lost it by 5 goals.

Doesn't look like Kosi being a decoy, or being beaten really assisted us in anyway at all. Considering we won the first half by 37 points and he kicked 4 when he was winning his posi.