Familiar bells ringing at the Western Bulldogs

[Teflon]

first of all, apologies for the long winded post.....

After reading this thread I am amazed at the incredible "Rod Butters" love that is going on. Am i the only one who is glad he is outta here?

Quite the opposite - Id have thought there were far more on this Board glad hes gone than giving him "love"?

I mean sure he handled the finances of the club well, full credit to him, but his performances in other areas were just plain embarassing. At the end of the day every other club with a comparable membership base is also turning over a profit every year,

Not every other club was the financial basket we were when Butters took over - its fair to say we were coming from a long way back...

however their president isnt out in the media making a fool of himself (perhaps I should exclude Jeff Kennett here ).

All Presidents make twits of themselves at some stage - see Smorgon with Eade, Pratt with everyone......theyre human?? so?

The following things are what caused me to send my Footy First proxy in (the lack of spending in the footy dept was just a bonus):

- Hired his mate as a head coach when more qualified candidates were available

I agree here but lets be fair Thomas AFTER the Blight debarcle was also vert much the stabilising influence the club needed - we could not have another Tim Watson saviour and as Allan Jeans said at the time "St Kilda needs a St Kilda man"

- Gave the coach unprecedented powers over the footy department. Everyone is banging on about how "courageous" a decision it was to take the powers off Thomas, but there is no responsibility for handing over those powers in the first place

Where those same people complaining a goal out from a GF?

- Lending the coach $1 million dollars. A clear conflict of interest given that Butters was responsible for paying Thomas his wages. Regardless of how it turned out (and it turned out very badly) this was NOT a professional thing to do.

Why? Butters didnt pay Thomas - an entire Board ratified that?...so he lent a friend money - big deal....he couldve just easily decided Thomas should stay on as coach so hed get his cash back????

- And the final nail in the coffin was that ridiculous outburst in the media where he unnecessarily brought unwanted bad media to the club. I remember my blood just boiling when i heard him say words to the effect of "GT is white-anting the club......but i wont say how or produce any evidence". Honestly what good did that do Rod?

Im not a fan of sacking good Presidents for media mistakes - as I said all clubs Presidents make them....I agree Butters wouldve been best served saying nothing.....but a hanging offence?,....hmm...not sure.

Obviously other than the last one I think Thomas should be also credited with these things. But I m shocked at the number of posts blaming GT for everything and describing Butters as a Boy Scout who did everything right who was eventually martyred for his trouble by the evil Burke and Westway ticket.

I know I'm probably gonna cop a bit of abuse for this, but it had to be said. I'm just looking forward to having a president that spends less time in the society pages than Richard Wilkins for a change.

Good on you for your view - no problems here. Despite being Rods son ......I dont have any undying love for the man BUT I feel quite the opposite to you - in my mind Grant Thomas has been feted as the messiah.......what I saw was a savvy media performer/corporate speaker without the true genuine technical graps of the game that could make players better players or a team tactically superior on game day. Lets face facts - without the cash of Rod Butters would Grant Thomas EVER have coached this club?....

[bigcarl]

Despite being Rod's son .... I dont have any undying love for the man

so it's true then ... or are you just taking the piss?

well, whether you're rod's son or not, i think that both rb and gt were great for st kilda and it is a modern football tragedy that we didn't net a flag out of that partnership.

i think it is fair to say that if we do snag one in the next couple of years the foundations will have been laid by both men. history will judge their contributions well.

just very sad for st kilda that they stopped being able to work together.

[n1ck]

Well said, Apu.

[n1ck]

... and also bigcarl.

[saintly]

Which is a lie.

Who's lying, not I, I just said that Robert Harvey rates Ross Lyon as the best coach he's had

The best you can do is call me a liar and claim that what I wrote is a lie, while offering NOTHING else

I stand by what I wrote and if you don't agree, try asking Robert Harvey in private sometime what he thinks of Ross Lyon

I would think that rob harvey is so team oriented that he would say that about any of of his coaches.

[saintly]

I don't want to preempt the great man, but I reckon Harvs would name Darrel Baldock as the best coach he had - because he believed in him and gave him the opportunity to play.

I would agree with your comment.

I remember when Blight was our coach.

the players came out and said..

its great not touching the footballs before xmas.

most of the senior players came out and said regarding thomas. excellent communicator, learning lots. and when sheldon came on as coach. great coach..

so they all do, most players are politically correct. If they were not, the club would be a rabble. The players would not be saying to the media oh i've had worst coaches than this one, i'm not learning anything. etc etc.

The only way you will get ta players true thoughts about their coaches, or fellow players is probably after they are retired. and even then its rare. just look at what kouta said about Pagan, and what medsia said about him.

[barks4eva]

the rogerfox b4e fight

you actually misunderstand the sitch

dodgy and I are actually in love with each other, but just havn't come out until now

[barks4eva]

Ok, so you're saying that Robert Harvey told you in private that he rates Ross Lyon as the best coach he's ever had? Is that what you're saying?

I will answer that BUT before I do, I ask for an explanation from you dodgy

You called me a liar and stated categorically that what I wrote was a lie

WHY?

Has Robert Harvey told you otherwise?

I spoke briefly to Robert Harvey at the last Melbourne Storm game this year at Olympic Park.

His comments were along the lines of what was reported in an article earlier this year.

He never said anything to suggest that Lyon is the best coach he's ever had. He rates him though.

Your track record of lying outright repeatedly about Cain Ackland saying he'd never had any ruck coaching at St.Kilda leads me to believe that every word you type is a lie.

Your above comment about Harves is no different.

I did not speak to Robert Harvey personally but I did speak to someone who spoke to him

Also contained in the article's earlier this year were quote's along the lines of " levels I've not seen before" in relation to the depth of tactical nous and thinking about the game etc...etc... which basically implied, what I wrote earlier while stopping a bee's dinger away from stating it publically

privately he apparently did say pretty much what Yipper wrote about Gehrig

that Lyon is the best coach he's ever had

and that's after just one year


make no mistake, Rod Butterss and the previous board have delivered us an A grade coach who will be excellent for us long term

What Lyon inherited was a team in decline as a direct result of poor list development and a shambolically run, ego driven football department with Thomas Maximus in full dictatorial control

The proper infrastructure that Butterss sought has now been implemented and for it he has been crucified

TRUE, Butterss was responsible for exiting in Thomas Maximus in the beginning and it would have been very hard to sack a coach after we'd made two preliminary finals in 2005

What they did do was tell Thomas Maximus that 2006 was his money shot, gave him everything he wanted and yes you guessed it, the recruiting budget obviously wasn't high on Thomas Maximus's list of priorities

new surface, new gym eqiupment, two week all expenses paid holiday to China etc...etc...

and by the end of 2006 we'd gone backwards and so the board did the absolute right thing, exit out the dictator with the view to installing a professionally run football department instead of the chook raffle approach that Mr Maximus had overseen previously

The bulldogs are now following suit, Geelong did the same thing last year


Ross Lyon will be a great coach for us and I agree with Robert Harvey in his assessment

Now we have a professionally run football department with Drain who Thomas Maximus had refused to work with previously as it diminished his control of absolute power and many many other appointments, we are now back in the game as a serious contender

How soon?

It will be a matter of how soon it will take us to address the mess of five year's of off field buffoonery

Thomas Maximus should really be offering to pay back some of the over inflated salary that he creamed off the club's bottonline, not trying to sue the St.Kilda Football club for $273,000 which includes $167,000 for holiday pay, and this even after he'd already signed a statutory declaration stating that he'd already recieved all annual leave entitlements

Anyway, I've moved on, I just wish other's could do the same

[rodgerfox]

TRUE, Butterss was responsible for exiting in Thomas Maximus in the beginning and it would have been very hard to sack a coach after we'd made two preliminary finals in 2005

Why?

[rodgerfox]

I did not speak to Robert Harvey personally but I did speak to someone who spoke to him

Oh Ok, so you didn't outright lie. You made a comment disguised as a fact which was nothing more than heresay of a third party.

Not a lie, but just as pathetic.

Not at all surprising though.

[barks4eva]

Oh Ok, so you didn't outright lie. You made a comment disguised as a fact which was nothing more than heresay of a third party.

Not a lie, but just as pathetic.

Not at all surprising though.

(insert black chick tone)

WHATEVER!

[JeffDunne]

Andrew, you didn't answer my question.




Or did you?

[Teflon]

I did not speak to Robert Harvey personally but I did speak to someone who spoke to him

Oh Ok, so you didn't outright lie. You made a comment disguised as a fact which was nothing more than heresay of a third party.

Not a lie, but just as pathetic.

Not at all surprising though.

And Im told by moderators this is called "improved posting" behaviour after numerous warnings.... attacking a poster beacuse they post what theyve heard?......

For the record Dodg - Barks at the least clarified where his comments come from...your "I bumped into Tony Lockett at sexpo.." type stuff dont really cut the mustard.....its as bad as your "I had a Board member over for dinner recently....no names ofcourse... and all night we bored member..." type comments (how was sexpo by the way - that part Ive got down as factual)...

[Oh When the Saints]

This thread hasn't been locked because the usual suspects can tear each other to shreds in the one place without disrupting the rest of the forum.

[mischa]

n1ck, I am led to believe we didn't get any new balls & equipment because Thomas didn't want any. Pretty much like everything else lacking in our off-field setup, it was a result of GT not wanting it.

You can't possibly believe he wasn't responsible for everything that went wrong with the club?

He's even responsible for hiring himself and the salary he paid himself. I presume he's responsible for sponsors suing the club too?

Stop being so bloody naive!!

Completely agree. These ppl are not Saints fans IMO, they are Robert Scumbag and Fatpryck disciples. The media wins

[Saints Premiers 2008]

Despite being Rod's son .... I dont have any undying love for the man

so it's true then ... or are you just taking the piss?

well, whether you're rod's son or not, i think that both rb and gt were great for st kilda and it is a modern football tragedy that we didn't net a flag out of that partnership.

i think it is fair to say that if we do snag one in the next couple of years the foundations will have been laid by both men. history will judge their contributions well.

just very sad for st kilda that they stopped being able to work together.

he is

[Teflon]

Despite being Rod's son .... I dont have any undying love for the man

so it's true then ... or are you just taking the piss?

well, whether you're rod's son or not, i think that both rb and gt were great for st kilda and it is a modern football tragedy that we didn't net a flag out of that partnership.

i think it is fair to say that if we do snag one in the next couple of years the foundations will have been laid by both men. history will judge their contributions well.

just very sad for st kilda that they stopped being able to work together.

he is

It is true. I am Rods female son complete with stubble.

classy huh?