?

[st_Trav_ofWA]

you could look at it this way they say the best way to compair teams is to look at their bottom 5 and see how they rate so maybe

Gwilt
CJ
Geery
Howard
Allen

[Eastern]

My Top 5 would be;

Riewoldt

Koschitzke

Dal Santo

Montagna

Ball



My wish is that we can have a mature debate about 2/3 of the way through the season as to whether Hayes M Gardiner, King, S Fisher, Goddard, Gram, Gilbert, Harvey, X Clarke & Maguire should/not be included in that list !!

[Armoooo]

you could look at it this way they say the best way to compair teams is to look at their bottom 5 and see how they rate so maybe

Gwilt
CJ
Geery
Howard
Allen

I like that idea, but I think we will be in trouble if any of those made our starting 22.
My starting 22 would be :
L.Fisher Hudghton Baker
Goddard Maguire S.Fisher
Gram Dal Montagna
X.Clarke Riewoldt Gilbert
Milne Koschitzke Schneider
Gardiner Hayes Ball
Harvey/ R.Clarke/ Fiora/ Birss/ Blake/ Gwilt/ Allen/ Attard/ Attard/ Geary/ Ferguson

So IMO our weakest 5 would be:
R.Clarke
Birss
Fiora
L.Fisher
X.Clarke

[Beej]

I hope Dal Santo goes all Gary Ablett Jnr on us and takes that next step.

Dal
Roo
Lenny
Ball
Goose

If they're our best five players next year, we'll be there or there abouts come September.

[Armoooo]

I hope Dal Santo goes all Gary Ablett Jnr on us and takes that next step.

Dal
Roo
Lenny
Ball
Goose

If they're our best five players next year, we'll be there or there abouts come September.

I'm another one of those optimists who are hoping that Dal goes all G.Ablett on us, I may be deludedly bias but I still believe that our list is capable of playing better footy we just need to play to our strengths because IMO we are more than capable of beating them.

Bartel < Hayes
Ablett > Dal Santo
Milburn < S.Fisher
Egan = Maguire
Scarlett > Hudghton
S.Johnson > Milne
Mooney < Riewoldt
Ottens > Gardiner
Ling > Ball
Corey < Montagna
Harley < Goddard
Hunt = L.Fisher
Mackie < Gram
Wojcinski > X.Clarke
Enright = Fiora
J.Selwood > Gilbert
Chapman > Schneider
N.Ablett < Koschitzke
Stokes > R.Clarke
Rooke = Baker
Blake < King
Byrnes < Blake
Kelly > Birss

With a full pre-season and given the oppurtunity to play to our strengths I believe that we are contenders...

[aussierules0k]

[Eastern]

cough... cough.... where's my boy Kingy?

Are you going down the path of obsession with a particular RUCKman? !!

[Oh When the Saints]

I hope Dal Santo goes all Gary Ablett Jnr on us and takes that next step.

Dal Santo finished 3rd in the Brownlow in 2005 and was All-Australian. He finishe equal 7th this year. He has finished top 3 in St Kilda's B&F in 2004, 2005 and 2007.

Dal Santo in 2005 and 2006 averaged more marks, kicks, handpasses, tackles, contested possessions and Brownlow votes than Garry Ablett Jnr.

Purely and simply, Dal Santo set a standard three years ago that was higher than Garry Ablett Jnr, and has been playing at that level ever since.

He has been more consistent and worked harder than most players at the club since 2004. Never takes short-cuts at training and has worked hard on his running fitness.

Ablett Jnr still had puppy fat twelve months ago and was lazy and living off his talent in the forward pocket.

He started to work hald as hard as Dal Santo did last year and enjoyed a productive season. Such is his ability that this was possible.


Dal Santo is in the top 10 midfielders in the AFL. I don't see how he can make the "massive leap" that Jnr did, when he has worked long and hard over the past three years and consistently been one of the best in the AFL.

He is the most under-rated and unfairly maligned player at St Kilda.

[Eastern]

If Dal Santo was afforded the same protection by his team-mates that Ablett recieves he would be mentioned in the same sentences as Judd !!

[Armoooo]

While I agree with you somewhat OWTS there have still been many times this year when Dal has failed to do the simple things such as chasing his opponent, applying a shepherd and all those other 1%ERs.
What I have noticed is that if he doesn't believe he will be able to catch a player he wont bother chasing but that's just not good enough, he neds to atleast try and atleast put on some pressure.
And Eastern I completely agree with you that is why I am so set on the idea of Birss becoming quite a big part of our midfield rotations, despite what some people think Birss is one of the hardest players on our list, he puts his body on the line time after time, and is always there to lay a shepherd.

[Ghost Like]

I think we know what we get from Hayes, Riewoldt, Harvey, Dal Santo & Sam Fisher. They are reliable, give 100% and have maintained a high level over the past few seasons. (I know the Dal doubters will have serious issues with this but that's more for a Dal Debate Thread) so my opinion of the Top 5 for 2008 is:

Kosi: A new role, a second injury free season in a row and a "It's mine" attitude.

Goose: Needs full fitness and confidence to control the backline and throw his weight around, controlled agression with third man up spoiling and contested marking confidence.

R. Clarke: Cannot limp through pre-season and play unfit in the main season, make or break season IMO, must put hand up to assist Sam Fisher in attacking from defence.

X. Clarke: Imperative he strings games together, builds an elite midfielders fiyness base and puts his hand up to assist in there.

Max: Needed injury free especially to try to negate the quick leading medium sized full forwards that clubs are turning to as well as the traditional types.

[aussierules0k]

[Otiman]

Riewoldt
Hayes
Koschitzke
Sam Fisher
Montagna

[Eastern]

Armoooo,

Go through the tapes of 2006 & 2007 and check out how many times Dal copped heavy hits from blokes coming off the square and/or just lining him up. A proven tactic to slow down the best. He would be the most hit player in the AFL, followed by X Clarke !!

[Otiman]

you could look at it this way they say the best way to compair teams is to look at their bottom 5 and see how they rate so maybe

Gwilt
CJ
Geery
Howard
Allen

More important to look at the bottom 5 of the best 22, not the full list.

[Oh When the Saints]

While I agree with you somewhat OWTS there have still been many times this year when Dal has failed to do the simple things such as chasing his opponent, applying a shepherd and all those other 1%ERs.
What I have noticed is that if he doesn't believe he will be able to catch a player he wont bother chasing but that's just not good enough, he neds to atleast try and atleast put on some pressure.

When you see Dal fail to chase, have you taken into account the two clearances and the inside 50 in the prior 3-4 minutes?

Garry Ablett Jnr is far less defensive than Dal Santo is.

I simply do not understand where Dal Santo gets a reputation for not doing the 1%ers. It's not his strength.

IMO if he spent more time focussing on the defensive aspect of his game it would detract significantly from his attacking strength.

Judd is not one who has a strong defensive aspect to his game. The best of the best don't.

I've seen 3rd and 4th efforts from Dal Santo that put Lenny Hayes to shame. Equally, I've seen Lenny not chase at times when he should have.


Dal Santo is human, and one of the best in the AFL. He is never going to be perfect, but deserves far more recognition from St Kilda supporters than he currently receives.

Why do we focus on the negative aspects of our champions?

[Armoooo]

There are games when Dal Santo is so damaging that it doesn't matter how poor he is in the defensive aspects of his game however there are other times when he doesn't have much say at all in the outcome of the game.
I feel that he is a superstar one of the best in the AFL however he can still do a lot better, IMO he needs to either lift the defensive part of his game or be more consistent with the attacking part of his game, one dominant game in 5-6 rounds isn't good enough. He needs to either be tearing it up 2 out of 3 games or learning to be a bit more defensive...

That's just my opinion, I believe that he is a gun but there is just such a gap between the glimpses of brilliance that he has shown and the seasons of solid contributions. If he could play at that level more often we would be a far better side for it...

[Oh When the Saints]

If the bottom 6 players could lift their game we'd be a better side ...

We don't need improvement from Dal Santo.

one dominant game in 5-6 rounds isn't good enough. He needs to either be tearing it up 2 out of 3 games or learning to be a bit more defensive...

Well, he had 25+ disposals on 9 occasions in '07, so that's one out of every 2.5 games where he was in our best players. Was adjuged by the umps to be one of the three BOG once every 4 games.

How can he do "a lot better" if he is a "superstar"?

You speak of "seasons of solid contributions" - he has been in the top twenty players in the AFL for the past three years.


This is not directed at you Armoooo, but at others who always focus on Dal Santo's weaknesses.

Maybe it's a culture at St Kilda that we expect our champions to carry us over the line. Thus we focus so much on their weaknesses in looking for improvement in the results of the team.

I just wish St Kilda people would accept Dal Santo for the star he is, and laud him every now and then.

Quite frankly, I get sick of everyone mentioning his weaknessess all the time.


If we are ever to win a premiership, it will be by demanding the same standards from our bottom 8 players as we do from Dal Santo.

[Armoooo]

Dal Santo is definitely up there but he still has a a bit of improving to do, however he is coming along nicely, that game against west coast was the most positive step I've seen him take.

However you are definitely right about our bottom 6-8 players...

[n1ck]

Well said OWTS.

Dal is a superstar, and like Eastern said - if his teammates afforded him the same protection West Coast provided Judd with, and Geelong gave to Ablett, he would have had a brownlow already.

With the exception of Chris Judd, hes probably the 2nd most gifted midfielder in the competition. He's simply brilliant.

You might notice the times that he doesnt chase at full tilt, but thats because we all take it for granted when he does do it, which is nearly always.

Ive seen him lay a tackle, get up and dive to effect a smother, all in the one passage of play. His defensive work is extremely underrated. He also takes more hits than pretty much anyone in the league, with the exception of Luke Ball and X Clarke, who throw themselves around with reckless abandon. Dal doesnt do that, but he still cops more than his fair share because hes always around the play.

[Beej]

I hope Dal Santo goes all Gary Ablett Jnr on us and takes that next step.

Dal Santo finished 3rd in the Brownlow in 2005 and was All-Australian. He finishe equal 7th this year. He has finished top 3 in St Kilda's B&F in 2004, 2005 and 2007.

Dal Santo in 2005 and 2006 averaged more marks, kicks, handpasses, tackles, contested possessions and Brownlow votes than Garry Ablett Jnr.

Purely and simply, Dal Santo set a standard three years ago that was higher than Garry Ablett Jnr, and has been playing at that level ever since.

He has been more consistent and worked harder than most players at the club since 2004. Never takes short-cuts at training and has worked hard on his running fitness.

Ablett Jnr still had puppy fat twelve months ago and was lazy and living off his talent in the forward pocket.

He started to work hald as hard as Dal Santo did last year and enjoyed a productive season. Such is his ability that this was possible.


Dal Santo is in the top 10 midfielders in the AFL. I don't see how he can make the "massive leap" that Jnr did, when he has worked long and hard over the past three years and consistently been one of the best in the AFL.

He is the most under-rated and unfairly maligned player at St Kilda.

That's the thing OWTS. Every now and then you come across a footballer like Dal Santo who can just turn it on, and when he turns it on, he's untouchable. When he's in the mood he is the best player to watch in the competition alongside Judd. Where Judd is power and pace, Dal Santo is grace and effortlessness.

Nobody can argue that Dal Santo can get tagged out of games.

You say he's in the top 10 midfielders atm, which are pretty heady heights. However, in terms of talent and ability, as n1ck said, he's probably in the top two players in the competition - he's got so much more to give.

If he lives up to all the potential, he could one day be talked about as being the best player in the country.

I think his work ethic is the only thing that's holding him back from reaching that level. It's probably what separates the legends from the champions.

Yeah, he's been outstanding over the last few years, nobody can deny that, but can we get more out of him? For sure. He's admitted he can run harder - sometimes he writes the word RUN on the back of his hand just to remind himself.

Hopefully our coaching staff are aware of this and are doing everything they can to get the best out of him and are not settling for what they've seen so far.

He's unfairly maligned because, as good as he's been, we all know that what we've seen so far is just a sample of the player he could become.