"Finally the truth!"

[Mr Magic]

Why does everybody accept that Cousins is a drug addict? Where is the proof of this?

How many times did he test positive before his self imposed exile earlier this year?

How many times did he test positive after his triumphant return from exile?

Apparently he has never tested positive to a drugs test administered under the AFL' s drug testing regime, and we know that the AFL's drug testing regime is the most stringent testing regime for 'recreational drugs' in world sport. The AFL and the AFLPA continually tell us that it is.

Therefore, if Cousins didn't return a 'positive test' even once under this most strenuous drug testing regime then he surely cannot be a drug addict? Because no-one here would seriously suggest that a drug addict would be capable of keeping himself clean enough to avoid the 'world's most stringent drug testing regime' would he?

I hope Cousins, if he is an addict, gets the time/help to clean himself up and cure his addiction. That is an issue for himself, his family and his friends.

My issue is with the AFL and the WCE who apparently did everything within their power not to discover direct evidence of his drug use for their own selfish reasons. IMHO they have much to answer for on this whole sad, sorry affair. And the consequenses of their actions should haunt them.

But then again I am sure they are all sleeping well at night at the WCE because it would appear that 'the ends justify the means'. They have their Premiership.

And the AFL hierarchy is complicit in their actions as they must have known something was going on but did nothing until it bacame so public that they have finally decided to do something to rid themselves of this 'public relations nightmare'.

[FullMonty]

Game finally over Ben.
Sad to see a champion player go out this way but "such is life"
His career is definitely done now..........
Best he can hope for is to become the person who goes to schools and sporting clubs to give the "look what drugs did to me" talk.
At least he won't have to lie in that role.

[Mr Magic]

Game finally over Ben.
Sad to see a champion player go out this way but "such is life"
His career is definitely done now..........

I'm not so sure you're totally correct on this FullMonty.

I have a very healthy respect for David Grace Q.C. and his ability to win cases at various AFL judiciaries.

The fact that he has accepted the brief to defend Cousins at his forthcoming tribunal hearing with the AFL Commision makes me believe that Grace thinks he has a defense to the 'charges' as laid and don't be surprized if Cousins actually beats those 'charges'.

Then we will have some really interesting scenarios, including the following:-

Does Cousins have an action against WCE for trminating his contract?
Given that this 'legal tangle' may well take some time and therefore go past the date of the Draft and the PSD, does Cousins have an action against the AFL for not allowing him to be selected in either of those?

[fonz_#15]

I, for one, have no sympathy at all for him. His rock star attitude and star treatment makes me sick actually. Also the fact that he has shown no remorse at all, and continues to shirk the issue.

Wouldnt be at all surprised if he winds up dead in some hotel room, his blood full of coke. May actually be a good thing, as then it may hit home to some people that drugs are not all parties and hot women. A fit sportsman who thinks he in invincible kicking the bucket may wake a few people up to the dangers.

i would like to congratulate you for being the biggest d**khead ever to post on this forum.. real intelligent suff

[stinger]

Why does everybody accept that Cousins is a drug addict? Where is the proof of this?

How many times did he test positive before his self imposed exile earlier this year?

How many times did he test positive after his triumphant return from exile?

Apparently he has never tested positive to a drugs test administered under the AFL' s drug testing regime, and we know that the AFL's drug testing regime is the most stringent testing regime for 'recreational drugs' in world sport. The AFL and the AFLPA continually tell us that it is.

Therefore, if Cousins didn't return a 'positive test' even once under this most strenuous drug testing regime then he surely cannot be a drug addict? Because no-one here would seriously suggest that a drug addict would be capable of keeping himself clean enough to avoid the 'world's most stringent drug testing regime' would he?

I hope Cousins, if he is an addict, gets the time/help to clean himself up and cure his addiction. That is an issue for himself, his family and his friends.

My issue is with the AFL and the WCE who apparently did everything within their power not to discover direct evidence of his drug use for their own selfish reasons. IMHO they have much to answer for on this whole sad, sorry affair. And the consequenses of their actions should haunt them.

But then again I am sure they are all sleeping well at night at the WCE because it would appear that 'the ends justify the means'. They have their Premiership.

And the AFL hierarchy is complicit in their actions as they must have known something was going on but did nothing until it bacame so public that they have finally decided to do something to rid themselves of this 'public relations nightmare'.

"THE emergency 5am call to the Hermosa Beach Police Department described a 29-year-old man on cocaine "not acting right".

Later, the caller said the man had "been on cocaine for the past five days". He was "not being violent, is just scared".

The caller was Susie Ela, a computer software sales manager. The man on the cocaine binge was Ben Cousins, 29, the former West Coast Eagles captain now at the centre of an unprecedented judicial inquiry into the troubled club.

Cousins was admitted to the Little Company of Mary Hospital in the Los Angeles suburb of Torrens on Wednesday, October 31, soon after the emergency call.

He remained at the hospital for two days before being discharged on Friday, November 2."

[Mr Magic]

Why does everybody accept that Cousins is a drug addict? Where is the proof of this?

How many times did he test positive before his self imposed exile earlier this year?

How many times did he test positive after his triumphant return from exile?

Apparently he has never tested positive to a drugs test administered under the AFL' s drug testing regime, and we know that the AFL's drug testing regime is the most stringent testing regime for 'recreational drugs' in world sport. The AFL and the AFLPA continually tell us that it is.

Therefore, if Cousins didn't return a 'positive test' even once under this most strenuous drug testing regime then he surely cannot be a drug addict? Because no-one here would seriously suggest that a drug addict would be capable of keeping himself clean enough to avoid the 'world's most stringent drug testing regime' would he?

I hope Cousins, if he is an addict, gets the time/help to clean himself up and cure his addiction. That is an issue for himself, his family and his friends.

My issue is with the AFL and the WCE who apparently did everything within their power not to discover direct evidence of his drug use for their own selfish reasons. IMHO they have much to answer for on this whole sad, sorry affair. And the consequenses of their actions should haunt them.

But then again I am sure they are all sleeping well at night at the WCE because it would appear that 'the ends justify the means'. They have their Premiership.

And the AFL hierarchy is complicit in their actions as they must have known something was going on but did nothing until it bacame so public that they have finally decided to do something to rid themselves of this 'public relations nightmare'.

"THE emergency 5am call to the Hermosa Beach Police Department described a 29-year-old man on cocaine "not acting right".

Later, the caller said the man had "been on cocaine for the past five days". He was "not being violent, is just scared".

The caller was Susie Ela, a computer software sales manager. The man on the cocaine binge was Ben Cousins, 29, the former West Coast Eagles captain now at the centre of an unprecedented judicial inquiry into the troubled club.

Cousins was admitted to the Little Company of Mary Hospital in the Los Angeles suburb of Torrens on Wednesday, October 31, soon after the emergency call.

He remained at the hospital for two days before being discharged on Friday, November 2."

Stinger, I'm sure you realized the first part of my post was being facetious to get to my real point about the actions of the WCE and AFL.

My question still remains, how does someone who is obviously so addicted avoid detection from a 'stringent drug testing program'?

[FullMonty]

Take your point Mr Magic but that was prior to this binge.
Not sure he would have gone near him after this week.
To me it's not so much the defence of his case and whether or not he wins. Rather who would take him knowing the risks now.
If the 5 day binge is true it's a fair bit more than recreational.

[Mr Magic]

Take your point Mr Magic but that was prior to this binge.
Not sure he would have gone near him after this week.
To me it's not so much the defence of his case and whether or not he wins. Rather who would take him knowing the risks now.
If the 5 day binge is true it's a fair bit more than recreational.

I think the word recreational when used in this instance should be encased in inverted commas - 'recreational'.

I may have misread the report this morning on Saintsational (I think on this thread?) that stated that David Grace QC had agreed to handle the case for Cousins. I had assumed that it, the appointment, had occured yesterday?

As an aside, I for one was calling for Grace to be appointed to defend Baker on the Farmer incident well before the farcical case was heard. Maybe if he had, Baker would never have been suspended?

[stinger]

Take your point Mr Magic but that was prior to this binge.
Not sure he would have gone near him after this week.
To me it's not so much the defence of his case and whether or not he wins. Rather who would take him knowing the risks now.
If the 5 day binge is true it's a fair bit more than recreational.

I think the word recreational when used in this instance should be encased in inverted commas - 'recreational'.

I may have misread the report this morning on Saintsational (I think on this thread?) that stated that David Grace QC had agreed to handle the case for Cousins. I had assumed that it, the appointment, had occured yesterday?

As an aside, I for one was calling for Grace to be appointed to defend Baker on the Farmer incident well before the farcical case was heard. Maybe if he had, Baker would never have been suspended?

i think you are 100% correct there.....

[Saint Mik]

I feel very sad at what has been reported in the papers over the weekend and if true then he definatley has alot more to worry about than his football career.

I have always wanted him to play if he was able and i thought he was going to be able because I along with many others including his family and close friends thought there was a chance he was clean and doing well.

The thing that i cant understand is how he can be declared fit and a full recovery was extremely likley because of his efforts from the summitt director and sent back Australia after a full evaluation of his health yet the 5 days prior to this he has been reported to of had a bender on cocaine and ended up in hospital. In those days of being on the bender he has been in contact with his father who in return has come out in support of him doing the right things, how can he hide it so well I dont understand.

Such a shame that a star of the game looks to of fallen and i hope he gets his life back on track and good luck to him and his family, I wish it was the other way around and he was able to play again but his health is now the only thing that matters.

Sorry for the late reply but was unable to do so over the weekend and thought it unfair to others not to respond after my opinion on the issue

[stinger]

I feel very sad at what has been reported in the papers over the weekend and if true then he definatley has alot more to worry about than his football career.

I have always wanted him to play if he was able and i thought he was going to be able because I along with many others including his family and close friends thought there was a chance he was clean and doing well.

The thing that i cant understand is how he can be declared fit and a full recovery was extremely likley because of his efforts from the summitt director and sent back Australia after a full evaluation of his health yet the 5 days prior to this he has been reported to of had a bender on cocaine and ended up in hospital. In those days of being on the bender he has been in contact with his father who in return has come out in support of him doing the right things, how can he hide it so well I dont understand.

Such a shame that a star of the game looks to of fallen and i hope he gets his life back on track and good luck to him and his family, I wish it was the other way around and he was able to play again but his health is now the only thing that matters.

Sorry for the late reply but was unable to do so over the weekend and thought it unfair to others not to respond after my opinion on the issue

good post st mik...and a fair stance to take in the circumstances.....

[n1ck]

Well said, St Mik.

[Dan Warna]

i think basically his father lied.

either because ben lied to him, or an attempt to protect his son.

either way you can't blame a father for wanting to protect his son, BUT now nothing bryan cousins says in defence of his son can be taken at face value or as honest.

[saintm]

i think basically his father lied.

either because ben lied to him, or an attempt to protect his son.

either way you can't blame a father for wanting to protect his son, BUT now nothing bryan cousins says in defence of his son can be taken at face value or as honest.

As you say, I think Bryan Cousins can be excused for protecting his own. Given the news reports that followed when Ben had failed to check into rehab can you imagine the hysteria which would have resulted if Mr Cousins had have answered with the truth - that is if he himself knew at that stage what Ben's true condition was. I'm sure that our local networks US representatives would have very quickly been joined by a heap more Aussie journalists in LA.

Having read articles in the paper and then come on here and got a different version of stories over time, I'm sure that all we read in the newspapers or see on television is not the truth, anyway.

I don't think Bryan Cousins really owes the football public anything - he just needs to find a way to get his son's life off the television and out of the newspaper for enough time to enable Ben to get well again. How you control a 29 year old adult to achieve this, though, I don't know.

[Dan Warna]

I'm not blaming bryan cousins, what I am saying is that anything bryan cousins says publicly in defence of his son has no value.

[TimeToShineFellas]

I'm not blaming bryan cousins, what I am saying is that anything bryan cousins says publicly in defence of his son has no value.

Can I ask you what else would you expect him to do in the situation he was faced with?

[Dan Warna]

I'm not blaming bryan cousins, what I am saying is that anything bryan cousins says publicly in defence of his son has no value.

Can I ask you what else would you expect him to do in the situation he was faced with?

his choices, say nothing, tell the truth or lie.

he chose to lie, he got caught out.

now he has to live with the consequences, as does cousins.

[Saint Mik]

I think at the time of Brian Cousins going public to defend his son he actually thought he was telling the truth because of Bens ability to hide the fact that he is on a bender, this i dont understand at all, i mean yes for a father to think his son is being honest with him is not so hard to imagine because his dad wants the best result and thinking he was getting it, but to fool the Director at the summit the very next day after your out of hospital doesn't sit well with me and not sure how this can happen.

I sort of think that in some way (not really sure to be honest) mabey the AFL and the WC should of stepped in as his employer and made sure he was in good company and get him back into rehab for his own good and to protect the intrests of the player and the competition in general.

To think the club and the AFL can just wash there hands of the situation and say your on your own, thanks for trying to get us through the finals and playing your heart out for us when it suited, but now that you are in trouble your gone my freind and we will throw everything at you because of it is also a problem now IMO.

I know its Ben that has the addiction and its up to him to get out of this mess, but surley in his world of elete competition more could and should of been done to protect the player, someone should of been there for support and to stop him from ending up in LA on a bender, what were they all thinking at the time i don't understand at all.

To much trust with no responsibilty IMO.

[Dan Warna]

I think at the time of Brian Cousins going public to defend his son he actually thought he was telling the truth because of Bens ability to hide the fact that he is on a bender, this i dont understand at all, i mean yes for a father to think his son is being honest with him is not so hard to imagine because his dad wants the best result and thinking he was getting it, but to fool the Director at the summit the very next day after your out of hospital doesn't sit well with me and not sure how this can happen.

I sort of think that in some way (not really sure to be honest) mabey the AFL and the WC should of stepped in as his employer and made sure he was in good company and get him back into rehab for his own good and to protect the intrests of the player and the competition in general.

To think the club and the AFL can just wash there hands of the situation and say your on your own, thanks for trying to get us through the finals and playing your heart out for us when it suited, but now that you are in trouble your gone my freind and we will throw everything at you because of it is also a problem now IMO.

I know its Ben that has the addiction and its up to him to get out of this mess, but surley in his world of elete competition more could and should of been done to protect the player, someone should of been there for support and to stop him from ending up in LA on a bender, what were they all thinking at the time i don't understand at all.

To much trust with no responsibilty IMO.

St Mik


point 1. perhaps, but regardless nothing bryan cousins says now will have any traction. I endorse a fathers right to protect their children, but he can't expect to have any credibility speaking on behalf of his son.

point 2. absolutely, the AFL and WCE have had their head in the sand over the issue for years. It has been helped by fans and supporters who 1. see nothing wrong with cousins actions, 2. make excuses, 3 facilitate the coverup.

the AFL and WCE should have addressed the issue, however while cousins is being hammered, and rightly so the AFL continues to have its head in the sand over the issue.

250 tests in 05 and 400 tests in 06 and 500 tests (with the tests not being exhaustive as recently exposed) in 07, plus a no disclosure rule and a 3 strikes rule would indicate to players they are unlucky to get caught once let alone 3 times. Plus the AFLs injunction slap happy attitude rather than addressing the issue also tells players, you stuff up a bit, we'll cover it up for you.

if Cousins managed to dose himself up, get addicted, do whatever and not get caught, the AFL would have been ecstatic with that outcome.

I love footy, I love taking my kids to the footy, i love kicking the footy with the kids, I love auskick but the idiots at the top have no concern past the almighty dollar and their own paycheques.

they would happily screw over anyone to hide the prblem.

a good competition would address the issue, tackle it head, drum out the bad seeds, provide education, help and support for players.

tour de france riders are given exhaustive testing before, during and after the race, we looking at maybe 20 plus tests over a month period. by and large you'd be lucky to be tested twice in a 3 year period.

the AFL drugs policy is a joke.

unless the AFL intends of giving up any pretensions of being a sport and moves down the path of 'entertainment' like the WWE it should start behaving and running the game as a sport, with sports rules, mechanisms, testing etc.

Cousins made his own choices, but the AFL and WA did nothing to tell him he was going down the wrong path.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

This is a saddening end to the saga, but perhaps one the public needs in order to have a uniting figure whom everyone recognises to be able to discuss this issue properly. Perhaps thats why every time Ben Cousins name is in a thread title, we seem guarenteed at least 5 pages.

For Ben Cousins the footballer, I have a little remaining sympathy. He thought he was invincible - he wasn't. Slippery slope, nobody intends to destroy their life and career, and as so many say, common sense would say get off. The media hounded Cousins into rehab twice, yet it didn't work. Cousins has now lost everything. Forget the life he had that we envy, he doesnt' have it anymore. Still has a lot more money than I do, but I frankly wouldn't be keen to swap these days.

For Ben Cousins the man, I feel sympathy. He now has a life in ruins he needs to come to terms with. He has an addiction he needs to come to terms with. He has not just a small circle, but an entire nation where many have passed judgement. It's natural, as is the response to falling off the reformation wagon (whether he was sincere or not)... regardless of having earned all these things, they will be difficult to overcome, and to live for a significant period of time, to retain any of the money he earned, he will need to do so, and the odds are against him. So he has my sympathy.

Most of all, I'm coming to feel sympathy for all of us who are discovering that not only are drugs themselves a grey issue, just discussing them is difficult. Within our smaller circles, there's likely some form of concensus. Out in the world, there are so many opposed points of view, whether the righteous who have followed the zero tolerance just say no approach, or those who have been touched and learned tolerance or learned apathy, or been traumatised and have a lot to say. There are many very valid and often opposing points of view. These discussions are charged and challenging.

I suppose what I'm observing is that as far as the social issue of drugs is concerned, it's exactly this kind of discussion that is our only hope of coming to any real sort of solution. It's a social issue, where our standard guides are useless - the politicians are railroaded, the media is sensationsalist, and religion doesn't carry enough sway these days.

For the AFL and AFLPA, the answer is relatively simple. There needs to be a LOT more testing... that Cousins never tested positive is an indictment of the system. For the Ben Cousins saga itself, I suppose my greatest sympathy for him comes that as a fallen icon, it's more likely that his effect will be to make people take athletes of the ever shrinking list of positive role models rather than any long term open discussion and conclusions around one of society's oldest issues.

/ramble

[Dan Warna]

twas a good ramble.

[stinger]

yep.....

[stinger]

I sort of think that in some way (not really sure to be honest) mabey the AFL and the WC should of stepped in as his employer and made sure he was in good company and get him back into rehab for his own good and to protect the intrests of the player and the competition in general.

To think the club and the AFL can just wash there hands of the situation and say your on your own, thanks for trying to get us through the finals and playing your heart out for us when it suited, but now that you are in trouble your gone my freind and we will throw everything at you because of it is also a problem now IMO.

I know its Ben that has the addiction and its up to him to get out of this mess, but surley in his world of elete competition more could and should of been done to protect the player, someone should of been there for support and to stop him from ending up in LA on a bender, what were they all thinking at the time i don't understand at all.

To much trust with no responsibilty IMO.

you are not wrong there...the following quote was taken from thwe tim lane article on that cheat richard pratt


"An International sports labour law lecturer, and consultant to various Australian sports bodies, Braham Dabscheck, has written of the Cousins case that West Coast "abdicated their common law obligation to an employee — an employee who was in rehabilitation seeking to overcome problems with drugs". "This demonising of Ben Cousins constitutes one of the blackest days in Australian sport."

[Mr Magic]

Some insight into the Rehab Clinic in Malibu.

I had breakfast yesterday with a person, born here but living in LA for the past 20 years, who has spent time in that clinic and others for drug dependance and depression issues.

She was here in Melbourne when Cousins was first admitteed and returned again 3 weeks ago.

I asked her specifically how/what Cousins would have been 'treated' in the clinic. Whilst she cannot comment specifiaclly on his 'treatment' she made the following observations.

If you are 'commited' to the Clinic under a Court Order it is a totally different experience than if you choose to 'commit' yourself.
If you 'commit' yourself you are free to come and go as you please. You can take whatever 'treatment' you choose as long as you pay your bill.

Many 'celebreties' commit themselves to this clinic and others like it to
(a) avoid sanctions from the local Courts.
(b) avoid the local media/paparazzi at a difficult time.

Some who 'commit' themselves take it seriously and are on their way to 'recovery'.

Some do not take it seriously and use it as a convenient method to avoid legal problems.

This lady laughed aloud when I asked her if Cousins could have been considered 'recovered' after a month in this clinic.

She also made the observation that Cousins was extremely lucky that the woman he was with had called 911. She told of instances where 'users' had died because the people they were with were too scared to make the call as they didn't want to be charged by the police in LA for being involved with drugs. This is apparently a regular occurrence in LA.

[Richter]

For the AFL and AFLPA, the answer is relatively simple. There needs to be a LOT more testing... that Cousins never tested positive is an indictment of the system.....

/ramble

Yes it was a good ramble and I'm sorry to picj out the one point that I disagree with but I'm afraid that you're wrong on the above issue. I have dealt with regular drug users in my job for almost every day of the last 8 years and I can tell you that many people who I know to have been regular speed/ice/cocaine users (because they or their families have told me or because they have obviously been drug affected) have never tested positive to drug tests. That is because these drugs (which are loosely metabolised in the same way) are only detectable for a maximum of 72 hours post-ingestion (and usually only 24 hours).

People who are on court orders (usually because of child protection issues) and have regular drug tests usually have them once a week. Can you imagine how ridiculous it would be to test all AFL players this often for drugs?

There is a practical reason why even in acute situations drug tests are not really used much in clinical situations. A NEGATIVE test means NOTHING. It does not disprove drug use. In practice people use other clues i.e. talk to the person and their family and look for patterns of inconsistent, disinhibited, impulsive etc. behaviour.

THe AFL and AFLPA are largely stymied on this. IT IS UP TO THE CLUBS to pick up on these types of behaviour and to encourage their players to fess up to the club doctor so that they can receive help. Unfortunately there are a few reasons why it is difficult for the player to do this......

a/ Many do not believe they have a problem - the truly addicted usually need to fall a long way before they realise it for themselves - denial, grandiosity, lack of insight, the thrill of living on the edge, call it what you will.

b/ Many do not, by the standards of their wider peers, have a problem. There are many, many recreational drug users out there who are perfectly capable of "dropping a pill" or "doing a line" at the weekend and then continuing in their normal jobs week in week out. Lawyers, doctors, politicans, policemen..... I have met people in all of these jobs both at work and socially who can very easily combine their personal and professional lives in this way.

c/ It is only in players interest to fess up if they truly believe that their jobs are not at risk by so doing. Confidentiality is absolutely paramount.


Having said all of the above, IMO the AFL have been negligent in taking so long to get into the WCE ear about this. It was certainly perfectly obvious this time last year after the stories regarding the "near death" incident on the WCE players trip last year that they had a problem... what am I talking about... it was perfectly obvious after Kerr's phone tap that they had a serious problem..... how long ago is that? 3 or 4 years ago.

In retrospect WCE should have been given a bollocking and told to get it sorted long ago - and if they didn't sort it be given sanctions i.e. drop draft picks or dock points.

Anyway, end of my ramble!