"Finally the truth!"

[jill]

My brother-in-law an x-alcoholic-'though he classifys himself "recovering" & is now AA/Drug councilor & I have had heavy discussions on Ben - my once suffering sister involved too - Both say until User admits problem/addiction ,NO BODY/NO-ONE can Help! Ben has never really acknowledged he has a problem! Weeks ago I asked if Saintsational Posters had seen CATALYST on ABC loking at ICE. It showed that not only could be performance-enhancing, but how easily it could be used without even a person standing next to you knowing! I think BC may have used to enhance performance THEN HAVING GOT AWAY WITH THAT THEN GONE ON TO USE "recreationally" other drugs. However KERNAK is wrong to use homeless etc for Ben's defence. The majority of addicts usually have child abuse type backgrounds. However recent reports suggest bored, over-indulged wealthy kids are now adding to the profile - suggest Ben fits this slot. Feel so sorry for family/friends but Ben had choices & sadly made the wrong ones. Until he acknowledges he has a problem, no-one can help him.

[Iceman234]

I don't mind the insult war, just don't quote seven previous posts simply to make a one-line retort.

Sorry

I very rarely get into them as you would know.

[stinger]

Eagles reputation in tatters: Worsfold

November 9, 2007 - 7:17PM

West Coast coach John Worsfold says the downward spiral of fallen great Ben Cousins gives the impression the club is totally off the rails - and only the remaining players can earn back respect.

On yet another dramatic day at Subiaco, the Eagles announced their own investigation into how the embattled club was being run.

Within hours, reports emerged that Cousins had been rushed to hospital while in Los Angeles for alleged cocaine abuse.

The Nine Network reported that a female friend in Los Angeles called an ambulance, telling the operator a 29-year-old male had been on cocaine for five days ... he "was not acting right but was breathing and conscious".

Nine said the Little Company of Mary Hospital confirmed Cousins was a patient there for two days.

He then belatedly checked into a drug rehabilitation clinic, where he stayed for two days before returning to Australia.

Days after the AFL launched an inquiry to be headed by a former High Court judge, new Eagles chairman Mark Barnaba and Worsfold admitted the club's reputation was in tatters after a string of controversies, led by Cousins' drug addiction.

And with Darren Glass handed the unenviable task of captaining the Eagles in 2008, the club said more action was needed to try to restore public faith in West Coast's culture

"We need to do something because the perception is that our club is off the rails," Worsfold said.

"Our player group deserves more than that and they will be the ones that need to earn that back.

"The concern has been the rumours we were hearing, and it has turned out some rumours that were whispered two or three years ago had some substance.

"I was disappointed and was hopeful he (Cousins) hadn't got himself in bad trouble.

"I've known Ben for a long time and what I would like to know in any time in the future when I cross paths with him is that he is living the life that he wants.

"That might not be the life I want him to live, but I hope he's healthy and finds the happiness that he's looking for."

With retired High Court Justice Bill Gillard due in Perth to investigate the club from top to toe on behalf of the AFL commission, the Eagles have appointed former WA deputy premier Hendy Cowan to do a similar job for them.

Cowan and KPMG executive Steve Scudamore will get unfettered access to all parts of the Eagles, including ex-players, to come up with an "action plan for change".

"There have been a lot of things said about this club over the last 12 months. But the worst for us as a club - and for me as the new incoming chairman - has been the suggestion that some parents would be worried about sending their kids into our care," Barnaba said.

"That is the most critical part of all of this, effectively to win back respect and confidence from the community. It is not something that will take place overnight."

Even as the Eagles were fronting the media, Cousins father arrived at Perth airport from Sydney, ignoring questions from the waiting media regarding his son's whereabouts.

And CEO Trevor Nisbett - whose arduous year started with Cousins's suspension and ended with the death of club champion Chris Mainwaring - said he was bracing himself for more revelations to come out as a result of the two inquiries.

"I'm sure there will be a lot of things come out that some people aren't going to be happy with, but that's the nature of a review," Nisbett said.

"We have nothing to hide, but lots of things to be concerned about.

"Some of the programs we've had in the education of our players haven't worked, and that's obvious. I take responsibility as the CEO of the club."

Glass, who was elevated to vice-captaincy last season and now takes over following the departure of Chris Judd to Carlton, said the players would endeavour to earn back respect lost in the maelstrom of headlines.

"We believe our behaviour has not been acceptable, we have done a lot of work so far and we will continue to do so," Glass said.

© 2007 AAP




....i don't need to comment......

[plugger66]

I don't mind the insult war, just don't quote seven previous posts simply to make a one-line retort.

Fair enough. I will not do it again. I will go to my room and spank myself.

[karnak]

my username is Karnak not kernak,

and had you have read my earliler post in this thread you'd have noted my loose tie in.

COUSINS IS ALMOST AN EX VETERAN (ie. on vets list for WC) And is now homeless (as kicked out of home by the WC Eagles).

It was loose but it was there, the point is its sad and I hope he recovers.

[Iceman234]

Nice one jill and spot on.

Had he been remotely remorseful and accepting of his problem he may well have been afforded some sympathy.

But what would I know?



And stinger nice article.....do you think the Weagles have a problem....?

[stinger]

Nice one jill and spot on.

Had he been remotely remorseful and accepting of his problem he may well have been afforded some sympathy.

But what would I know?



And stinger nice article.....do you think the Weagles have a problem....?

bloody oath.....but it could spread way further.......gardiner will be forced to give evidence for one......

[Riewoldting]

I don't mind the insult war, just don't quote seven previous posts simply to make a one-line retort.

Fair enough. I will not do it again. I will go to my room and spank myself.

That makes a nice change, most of your spanking of yourself takes place on Saintsational

[plugger66]

My brother-in-law an x-alcoholic-'though he classifys himself "recovering" & is now AA/Drug councilor & I have had heavy discussions on Ben - my once suffering sister involved too - Both say until User admits problem/addiction ,NO BODY/NO-ONE can Help! Ben has never really acknowledged he has a problem! Weeks ago I asked if Saintsational Posters had seen CATALYST on ABC loking at ICE. It showed that not only could be performance-enhancing, but how easily it could be used without even a person standing next to you knowing! I think BC may have used to enhance performance THEN HAVING GOT AWAY WITH THAT THEN GONE ON TO USE "recreationally" other drugs. However KERNAK is wrong to use homeless etc for Ben's defence. The majority of addicts usually have child abuse type backgrounds. However recent reports suggest bored, over-indulged wealthy kids are now adding to the profile - suggest Ben fits this slot. Feel so sorry for family/friends but Ben had choices & sadly made the wrong ones. Until he acknowledges he has a problem, no-one can help him.

You think he was using to enhance performance. Well done. At least you seem to know he wasnt a drug addict. Can you tell me the winner of a couple of races at Flemington tomorrow.

[Iceman234]

Nice one jill and spot on.

Had he been remotely remorseful and accepting of his problem he may well have been afforded some sympathy.

But what would I know?



And stinger nice article.....do you think the Weagles have a problem....?

bloody oath.....but it could spread way further.......gardiner will be forced to give evidence for one......

Yes he will - yet, when it looked like we were going to draft Gardiner I was in favor of it.

Don't know what the difference was but he seemed to be a guy who wanted to change who he was at the time.

Will be interesting, almost like a royal commission into their lifestyle.

[aussierules0k]

[Spinner]

Oh yeah Plug, gonna give myself up here as a former drug addict......

Some here probably know that I wasn't but have I very strong views on it - and not all negative, I like those who actualy do help themselves. I have seen none of that in Benny but hey, you obviously know him and know better.

Will still back my experience on a daily basis over yours Plugga.


I used to like some of your posts but you obviously struggle....

Question 1: Being a past drug addict allows you to understand what Ben is going through....How does it give you the knowledge to know how much Ben is trying to help himself? Once again, unless you know him etc etc....Because he's still taking drugs means he's not trying?....This sint an exact science here, there will be hits and misses. Common sense says that.

Question 2: How many aspects of your life did you lose while you were addicted to drugs? Now this is a serious question and your answer would be extremely valued.

Logic would have it that on its own, beating an addiction to drugs is extremely hard. Without the complexities of other aspects of life.

How much harder would it be to beat this addiction after some of the following; losing a long term partner, losing a career, losing respect and reputation, losing one of his best mates all while in front of the media. And these are the only issues we know about, who knows what other personal demons are harming Ben.

Because I cant even imagine how hard it would be to beat something like an addiction...something that takes over both the mind and the body...But what is truly unimaginable is how hard it would be while facing other serious issues in ones life.

[stinger]

[
Yes he will - yet, when it looked like we were going to draft Gardiner I was in favor of it.

Don't know what the difference was but he seemed to be a guy who wanted to change who he was at the time.

Will be interesting, almost like a royal commission into their lifestyle.

"AFL has no hold on Gooding

Gareth Parker and Craig O'Donoghue | November 9, 2007

THE special investigator appointed by the AFL to investigate West Coast's culture will have no power to force former Eagles chairman Dalton Gooding to co-operate with his inquiry.

Under AFL rules, retired Victorian Supreme Court judge Bill Gillard, QC, will have full authority to demand co-operation from any current AFL player, coach or administrator at any club. But Gillard will have no authority to compel former players or officials, such as Gooding, to participate.

The AFL yesterday refused to allow Gillard to speak to media about the probe into West Coast's players, staff and culture.

AFL spokesman Patrick Keane said the retired Supreme Court judge would not make any comment to the media while the investigation — which is expected to take up to three months to complete — continued.

There are also no guarantees his final report to the AFL Commission will be made public.

Gillard is expected to interview a number of current Eagles, including chief executive Trevor Nisbett, coach John Worsfold, leaders Darren Glass, Dean Cox, Andrew Embley and Tyson Stenglein along with controversial midfielders Daniel Kerr and Chad Fletcher.

He is also expected to interview players who have left the Eagles for other AFL clubs, such as former captain Chris Judd and St Kilda's Michael Gardiner.

Keane confirmed the AFL Commission basically has unlimited powers to punish listed players or officials who refused to co-operate with the investigator, with penalties including suspension and fines.

"Under the AFL rules, you must co-operate with the investigator in the same way as co-operating with the AFL Tribunal or co-operating with the player payments department," Keane said.

"You don't have a choice."

■Sacked West Coast star Ben Cousins has hired his former club's high-profile lawyer David Grace, QC, to defend him at the AFL Commission hearing on November 19 in relation to charges that he brought the game into disrepute.

The Eagles have ruled out offering their former midfielder any financial assistance as he battles to keep his career alive.

Grace has played a key role in West Coast's legal affairs in recent years, including in two major tribunal cases.

He helped clear midfielder Adam Selwood of sledging Fremantle star Des Headland about a tattoo of his daughter, and got Brownlow medallist Chris Judd cleared of eye-gouging Hawthorn's Campbell Brown.

A former chairman of the Law Institute of Victoria, Grace also worked for St Kilda midfielder Leigh Montagna during rape allegations in 2004, the Gypsy Jokers bikie gang and Fremantle following the disputed match against St Kilda in Launceston last year when umpires failed to hear the siren.

The Eagles worked with industrial relations lawyers when they terminated Cousins' contract and did not seek Grace's counsel on the issue.

He refused to comment about the case yesterday."

WEST AUSTRALIAN



88888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888


those sort of inquires have a habit of snowballing out of control.....

[Iceman234]

My brother-in-law an x-alcoholic-'though he classifys himself "recovering" & is now AA/Drug councilor & I have had heavy discussions on Ben - my once suffering sister involved too - Both say until User admits problem/addiction ,NO BODY/NO-ONE can Help! Ben has never really acknowledged he has a problem! Weeks ago I asked if Saintsational Posters had seen CATALYST on ABC loking at ICE. It showed that not only could be performance-enhancing, but how easily it could be used without even a person standing next to you knowing! I think BC may have used to enhance performance THEN HAVING GOT AWAY WITH THAT THEN GONE ON TO USE "recreationally" other drugs. However KERNAK is wrong to use homeless etc for Ben's defence. The majority of addicts usually have child abuse type backgrounds. However recent reports suggest bored, over-indulged wealthy kids are now adding to the profile - suggest Ben fits this slot. Feel so sorry for family/friends but Ben had choices & sadly made the wrong ones. Until he acknowledges he has a problem, no-one can help him.

You think he was using to enhance performance. Well done. At least you seem to know he wasnt a drug addict. Can you tell me the winner of a couple of races at Flemington tomorrow.

Personally I think Benny used to enhance performance too, as well as just being addicted.

I know I'll get howled down for saying that - but it is SS after all - but Plug, have you ever tried to hold down a bloke who's on ICE? Hehe I think not, but if ever you do have to, enlist a few big guys to help you.

Anyway I think anything Benny has done and achieved while he admits to having been addicted is tainted. And from what we hear from the NRL now (Joey Johns), the full extent of how long Benny et al have been using may not become known for quite some time.

Yeah maybe I'm cynical but I'm no Ostrich either!!!!

[plugger66]

My brother-in-law an x-alcoholic-'though he classifys himself "recovering" & is now AA/Drug councilor & I have had heavy discussions on Ben - my once suffering sister involved too - Both say until User admits problem/addiction ,NO BODY/NO-ONE can Help! Ben has never really acknowledged he has a problem! Weeks ago I asked if Saintsational Posters had seen CATALYST on ABC loking at ICE. It showed that not only could be performance-enhancing, but how easily it could be used without even a person standing next to you knowing! I think BC may have used to enhance performance THEN HAVING GOT AWAY WITH THAT THEN GONE ON TO USE "recreationally" other drugs. However KERNAK is wrong to use homeless etc for Ben's defence. The majority of addicts usually have child abuse type backgrounds. However recent reports suggest bored, over-indulged wealthy kids are now adding to the profile - suggest Ben fits this slot. Feel so sorry for family/friends but Ben had choices & sadly made the wrong ones. Until he acknowledges he has a problem, no-one can help him.

You think he was using to enhance performance. Well done. At least you seem to know he wasnt a drug addict. Can you tell me the winner of a couple of races at Flemington tomorrow.

Personally I think Benny used to enhance performance too, as well as just being addicted.

I know I'll get howled down for saying that - but it is SS after all - but Plug, have you ever tried to hold down a bloke who's on ICE? Hehe I think not, but if ever you do have to, enlist a few big guys to help you.

Anyway I think anything Benny has done and achieved while he admits to having been addicted is tainted. And from what we hear from the NRL now (Joey Johns), the full extent of how long Benny et al have been using may not become known for quite some time.

Yeah maybe I'm cynical but I'm no Ostrich either!!!!

You got a winner tomorrow as well.

[Spinner]

Anyhow, this thread and all the other Cuz threads, belong in the General Forum. Look I'm sure we all feel for the guy, we wish him better etc... but really, I'm over hearing about him...he ain't a Saint and probably never will be. There's drug addicts roaming the streets....that's general forum stuff.

Unless of course anyone wants to discuss the fact the WC should hand the flag back and maybe lose draft picks. The Blue's were keelhauled cos they rorted the salary cap... how's that equate to a team with ? players pumped on ICE?... AND winning the flag! Now if they'd missed the finals, ok no probs, the drugs didn't help... but winning the flag - that's very big. If they were artificially pumped during the finals, 7 other teams were disadvantaged hugely. If we'd played and lost to them in the GF that year... I'd be spitting chips.

Dude. A blokes life is in pieces....How could you even comprehend West Coast handing back their 06 flag....It isn't even in the same league.

[Spinner]

Seriously, I'd like to know if anyone on here literally thinks that not one of the 30 odd St Kilda listed players have not 'previously tried/currently use' illicit drugs.

I'd put up my house that most would fall into the first category before even finishing year 12.

Whys its linked? How would your views change on Cousins if he had been wearing Red White and Black for the last 10 years?

[Iceman234]

My brother-in-law an x-alcoholic-'though he classifys himself "recovering" & is now AA/Drug councilor & I have had heavy discussions on Ben - my once suffering sister involved too - Both say until User admits problem/addiction ,NO BODY/NO-ONE can Help! Ben has never really acknowledged he has a problem! Weeks ago I asked if Saintsational Posters had seen CATALYST on ABC loking at ICE. It showed that not only could be performance-enhancing, but how easily it could be used without even a person standing next to you knowing! I think BC may have used to enhance performance THEN HAVING GOT AWAY WITH THAT THEN GONE ON TO USE "recreationally" other drugs. However KERNAK is wrong to use homeless etc for Ben's defence. The majority of addicts usually have child abuse type backgrounds. However recent reports suggest bored, over-indulged wealthy kids are now adding to the profile - suggest Ben fits this slot. Feel so sorry for family/friends but Ben had choices & sadly made the wrong ones. Until he acknowledges he has a problem, no-one can help him.

You think he was using to enhance performance. Well done. At least you seem to know he wasnt a drug addict. Can you tell me the winner of a couple of races at Flemington tomorrow.

Personally I think Benny used to enhance performance too, as well as just being addicted.

I know I'll get howled down for saying that - but it is SS after all - but Plug, have you ever tried to hold down a bloke who's on ICE? Hehe I think not, but if ever you do have to, enlist a few big guys to help you.

Anyway I think anything Benny has done and achieved while he admits to having been addicted is tainted. And from what we hear from the NRL now (Joey Johns), the full extent of how long Benny et al have been using may not become known for quite some time.

Yeah maybe I'm cynical but I'm no Ostrich either!!!!

You got a winner tomorrow as well.

Plugger66 I got a tip for you but it's not running tomorrow

As far as a winner goes - FFS don't look in the mirror buddy.

[plugger66]

My brother-in-law an x-alcoholic-'though he classifys himself "recovering" & is now AA/Drug councilor & I have had heavy discussions on Ben - my once suffering sister involved too - Both say until User admits problem/addiction ,NO BODY/NO-ONE can Help! Ben has never really acknowledged he has a problem! Weeks ago I asked if Saintsational Posters had seen CATALYST on ABC loking at ICE. It showed that not only could be performance-enhancing, but how easily it could be used without even a person standing next to you knowing! I think BC may have used to enhance performance THEN HAVING GOT AWAY WITH THAT THEN GONE ON TO USE "recreationally" other drugs. However KERNAK is wrong to use homeless etc for Ben's defence. The majority of addicts usually have child abuse type backgrounds. However recent reports suggest bored, over-indulged wealthy kids are now adding to the profile - suggest Ben fits this slot. Feel so sorry for family/friends but Ben had choices & sadly made the wrong ones. Until he acknowledges he has a problem, no-one can help him.

You think he was using to enhance performance. Well done. At least you seem to know he wasnt a drug addict. Can you tell me the winner of a couple of races at Flemington tomorrow.

Personally I think Benny used to enhance performance too, as well as just being addicted.

I know I'll get howled down for saying that - but it is SS after all - but Plug, have you ever tried to hold down a bloke who's on ICE? Hehe I think not, but if ever you do have to, enlist a few big guys to help you.

Anyway I think anything Benny has done and achieved while he admits to having been addicted is tainted. And from what we hear from the NRL now (Joey Johns), the full extent of how long Benny et al have been using may not become known for quite some time.

Yeah maybe I'm cynical but I'm no Ostrich either!!!!

You got a winner tomorrow as well.

Plugger66 I got a tip for you but it's not running tomorrow

As far as a winner goes - FFS don't look in the mirror buddy.

Thanks for the tip. I'll put 20 on it tomorrow.

[Iceman234]

Seriously, I'd like to know if anyone on here literally thinks that not one of the 30 odd St Kilda listed players have not 'previously tried/currently use' illicit drugs.

I'd put up my house that most would fall into the first category before even finishing year 12.

Whys its linked? How would your views change on Cousins if he had been wearing Red White and Black for the last 10 years?

Of course some would have.

Ten percent of employees of most occupations probably have.

This was never about that.

It was about one person who has had or should have had a lot of strikes against him.

Again for fear of repeating myself I'll repeat myself - I don't have a problem with giving people chances as long as they see the issue and want to help themselves and make life better - we're just not seeing that.

[Spinner]

Seriously, I'd like to know if anyone on here literally thinks that not one of the 30 odd St Kilda listed players have not 'previously tried/currently use' illicit drugs.

I'd put up my house that most would fall into the first category before even finishing year 12.

Whys its linked? How would your views change on Cousins if he had been wearing Red White and Black for the last 10 years?

Of course some would have.

Ten percent of employees of most occupations probably have.

This was never about that.

It was about one person who has had or should have had a lot of strikes against him.

Again for fear of repeating myself I'll repeat myself - I don't have a problem with giving people chances as long as they see the issue and want to help themselves and make life better - we're just not seeing that.

How are you not seeing that?

Who does he have to confess to? You? Me? The media? Thats bulls***. His only responsibility is to his family. The public wont be the ones helping him get back to order, he owes them/us nothing. This is personal, and I truly think anyone struggles to understand another's personal issues, no matter what experiences they may share.

And once again, you have no knowledge on whether he is helping himself or not. How do you know he hasn't admitted he has a problem to his family?

Hes not getting results...That cant be questioned. Thats the only evidence thats present. But to assume he's not trying....Well thats just moronic.

[stairwaytoheaven]

I remember back when Ken Judge wa coaching this team. He went to the board with a problem, nothing came from it and he was sacked at the end of the season. 5 to 6 years have passed and the problem has taken hold on not only one player, there are now a few who are on shakey ground. I believe we all have choices in life and some people just don't make the right one, but i do also believe that if there is a problem ya try to fix it before it snowballs. Ben Cousins never had a chance while they were sweeping this under the carpet and nor will some others and it has been and very sad outcome for both the Eagles and Co. as i feel they we pay the ultimate price for this.

[stinger]

i don't know whether he had a chance or not...but no one forced him to mix with criminals and bikie gang members....that's just asking for trouble...don't take my word for it ...ask didak........

[Iceman234]

.

Question 1: Being a past drug addict allows you to understand what Ben is going through....How does it give you the knowledge to know how much Ben is trying to help himself? Once again, unless you know him etc etc....Because he's still taking drugs means he's not trying?....This sint an exact science here, there will be hits and misses. Common sense says that.

Question 2: How many aspects of your life did you lose while you were addicted to drugs? Now this is a serious question and your answer would be extremely valued.

Logic would have it that on its own, beating an addiction to drugs is extremely hard. Without the complexities of other aspects of life.

How much harder would it be to beat this addiction after some of the following; losing a long term partner, losing a career, losing respect and reputation, losing one of his best mates all while in front of the media. And these are the only issues we know about, who knows what other personal demons are harming Ben.

Because I cant even imagine how hard it would be to beat something like an addiction...something that takes over both the mind and the body...But what is truly unimaginable is how hard it would be while facing other serious issues in ones life.

Sorry Spinner I missed this reply before - maybe we can catch up one day and I'll fill you in but not gonna go over it here - well not entirely anyway.

But life does deal some very bitter blows, even when your mentor OD's on whatever they OD on. Didn't happen to me but I'm sure if my mentor did OD it would hurt. Long after I became addicted to drugs though of course.

Long term partner? Yep that hurts too.

Haven't lost a career.

But I never turned to coke/ICE/hanging with the gangsters, running from the coppers etc. etc. etc...........

While you can't imagine what it's like maybe you need to do exactly that - imagine what it's like and think about what decisions you'd make if that happened to you.

If you turn to gangster related drug activity maybe that tells something about your character.

But I don't think you'd be a person who'd do that Spinner. Because you think.....

[Sainter_4_life]

I, for one, have no sympathy at all for him. His rock star attitude and star treatment makes me sick actually. Also the fact that he has shown no remorse at all, and continues to shirk the issue.

Wouldnt be at all surprised if he winds up dead in some hotel room, his blood full of coke. May actually be a good thing, as then it may hit home to some people that drugs are not all parties and hot women. A fit sportsman who thinks he in invincible kicking the bucket may wake a few people up to the dangers.