Roo and Kosi......and Full Forward

[saintsRrising]

Ok....we have a few months to fill in and do and redo our suggested line ups.



I have been pondering on FF next year and Kosi...and thinking how we can gain a competitive advantage by maximising our strengths while also seeking to combat the strengths of some of the key GF contenders.

Initially I was thinking Kosi for FF to replace GTrain...but after thinking through things I would now play Roo there.

Now before you say rubbish please consider.


Now firstly yes I concede that Roo is a better CHF than Kosi....but I believe that Kosi can play well there and importantly that we can improve the overall effectiveness of our team by doing so.


Kosi can play FF...but while he is a good contested mark he does suffer a bit when he has to stop and just use his body....opposition players seem to be able to bump him at the last minute and he drops the mark.

Kosi is at his best when he is on the run....and at CF he can also run towards the FF spot to take those big pack grabs on occasion.
At FF he would be playing on some very very good FBs in Glass and Scarlet with WC and Geelong being some of the two prime candidates for the GF in 2008.


Where both Scarlett and Glass will find Roo a much more difficult match up. They will struggle to keep up with Roo's constant run and leads.


Now at present Roo is a very good CHF, but his run often takes him so far up the ground that he is often virtually playing as a linking mid. There is value in this but there is MORE value in Roo marking within range of goals.


Also consider that the FF position today is not what it was when Lockett was playing. The FF basically staying in the goal square and just leading out is often a liability these days.....and in particular against the best teams. A FF patrolling the goal square plays into the strengths of Glass and scarlett.

Many teams often only really have one effective big forward and these guys (ie Hall, Brown) normally play the FF position as a cross between CHF and FF where they play further out than FF but closer than CHF. The result is that they have plenty of opportunities to kick goals.

believe that Roo's mobility makes hi ideal for this role. In addition in 2007 we saw Roo really improve his contest marks and use of the body....this will help him playing in this position (ie DEEP CHF or Shallow FF).

With Roo playing this "modern" FF position leading out......he will be well complimented by Kosi playing at CHF with Kosi running towards goal....


In some ways what this effectively means is that we will be playing two CHF's and no FF. Both will be mobile and at times one or the other will be in the goalsquare...but mostly they will not.





These two key forwards are then supported by other mobile forwards....there will be no room for lumberers such as watts or Brooks. Yes the ruckman may drift forward on occasion...but will not rest there for whole games....at least against quality opposition.

A third tallish player can be played...but he will need to be mobile...ie the young Allen or Charlie Gardiner....or Gilbert.

The others will be smalls and rotating mids.


STRUCTURE

Schneider/Joey* Kosi Harvey/ Dal*

Milne Roo Allen/Gardiner

* = 4 mids rotating through the midfield and playing as half forwards.

The forward line is constantly fluid and the Fps will also alternate with the HF positions.

[sunsaint]

This is the $64mill question.
Personally I think if we do not pick up any other suitable players, (which will be unlikely) that a status quo will exist with Roo CHF and Kosi FF. Roo has a much bigger tank for the role of CHF, but I think during the course of the game RL will mix it up switching Roo and Kosi occassionally, much like Hall and Loewe used to.
I was over at the Scorps website and was saddened(?) to read that Sweeney won the Full forward award for 07. So the hope that Brooks could step up to the position falls a bit flat. Watts has failed in all respects. These three players have all been touted as being dropped, so it looks like Sweeney is the only player to show any promise, but would never fill FF shoes.
And definitely agree that the players all picked up so far indicate a rotating foraward line tactic during the game.

[Armoooo]

Yea, I agree Roo should be give a shot in FF, that way he can lead out to take the marks but still be within kicking range, as for Kosi he would be very good at CHF, great mark, decent kick and he would be able to run further up ground when needed...

My lineup would be

HF: Schnieder Kosi (Resting Midfielder)
FF: Milne Roo Xavier

[saintsRrising]

.....and yes if X can learn to kick straight at goals that will add an extra dimension as well.

[awesome_days]

I would think we will go with a predominately 5 man forward line. Three talls and two smalls. The 6th person will push through the midfield.

Riewoldt, Kosi & Allen. Milne & Schneider.

Starting Lineup:

HF: Allen Riewoldt "Midfielder"
FF: Milne Kosi Schneider

Kosi, Riewoldt & Allen will rotate to exploit matchups & "rest" at FF.

[nicko016]

It is an interesting one but I still see Riewoldt at CHF and Kosi at FF. But FF is a changing position and I'd see Kosi playing it the way Brown plays and Riewoldt as a fairly high CHF pushing back really hard so he can still kick big bags of goals. If we had a third tall such as a Charlie Gardiner he'd probably be in a way FF playing deep inside the F50. But we will need to have the ability to push either of Kosi or Roo deep depending on their opponent.

[Armoooo]

It is an interesting one but I still see Riewoldt at CHF and Kosi at FF. But FF is a changing position and I'd see Kosi playing it the way Brown plays and Riewoldt as a fairly high CHF pushing back really hard so he can still kick big bags of goals. If we had a third tall such as a Charlie Gardiner he'd probably be in a way FF playing deep inside the F50. But we will need to have the ability to push either of Kosi or Roo deep depending on their opponent.

I would say that Charlie has a long way to go before he would get a spot in our starting 22, he was more a bonus on than anything we could actually use.
I would have thought that Watts could have taken the role of third tall but apparently he's not up to it, maybe the club fancies Allen as a likely prospect...

[nicko016]

It is an interesting one but I still see Riewoldt at CHF and Kosi at FF. But FF is a changing position and I'd see Kosi playing it the way Brown plays and Riewoldt as a fairly high CHF pushing back really hard so he can still kick big bags of goals. If we had a third tall such as a Charlie Gardiner he'd probably be in a way FF playing deep inside the F50. But we will need to have the ability to push either of Kosi or Roo deep depending on their opponent.

I would say that Charlie has a long way to go before he would get a spot in our starting 22, he was more a bonus on than anything we could actually use.
I would have thought that Watts could have taken the role of third tall but apparently he's not up to it, maybe the club fancies Allen as a likely prospect...

I'd say he's a long way too but that would be a good setup. That's in an ideal world but its more likely that none of Gardiner, Watts or Allen will fill that role. But I'm still hoping that one might.

[Armoooo]

It is an interesting one but I still see Riewoldt at CHF and Kosi at FF. But FF is a changing position and I'd see Kosi playing it the way Brown plays and Riewoldt as a fairly high CHF pushing back really hard so he can still kick big bags of goals. If we had a third tall such as a Charlie Gardiner he'd probably be in a way FF playing deep inside the F50. But we will need to have the ability to push either of Kosi or Roo deep depending on their opponent.

I would say that Charlie has a long way to go before he would get a spot in our starting 22, he was more a bonus on than anything we could actually use.
I would have thought that Watts could have taken the role of third tall but apparently he's not up to it, maybe the club fancies Allen as a likely prospect...

I'd say he's a long way too but that would be a good setup. That's in an ideal world but its more likely that none of Gardiner, Watts or Allen will fill that role. But I'm still hoping that one might.

From what I'm hearing and the very limited amount I have seen, it would seem that Allen is more a case of when than if, it really just depends whether he turns out to be a backman or a forward.
With Roo and Kosi most likely at the club for the next 7+ years with Max probably only around for another 1-2, it would probably be better if Allen were to become backman, Kosi and Roo are enough talls in there for me, with Schneider + Milne crumming, and giving other options time up there such as Goddard, Gilbert and co.

[nicko016]

Repharsing it, I don't think Allen will fit the role next year. But I would too probably prefer him to be groomed for FB and hope that Gardiner can develop into a third tall. I think we need to develop another backmen before a forward and it seems as if Allen would be a fairly good chance to develop into a good player so groom him to play FB and with Gardiner whose much less likely to develop try and turn him into a 3rd tall and if it doesn't happen it doesn't really matter. But for those who watched the VFL in the limited time Allen played due to injury where did he play?

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Never seen Allen play - does he kick right or left? As much as we seem to assume the diff. w/o Gehrig will be who plays closer to goal, Gehrig came up the ground a fair bit last year too, the goal seemed to be to have them (Roo/G) control a side of the ground each.

If Allen is a left footer, it might just help him make the team.

[Otiman]

Rubbish of the highest order.


Riewoldt will play some time closer to goal, especially if he's given an opponent like Raines. Conversely, if he has someone like Glass on him, he'd play more time up the ground. If opposition coaches like to switch it up depending on where he in on the field - then we can play that to our advantage too, by having Roo switch regularly between I50 and on the Wing.

[Barney2]

Rooey at full forward. mmm, He can kick goals and has kicked many bags before. Yeah, Kossy at CHF, yeah, I would take that, but Rooey plays away from CHF and play up the ground too. Rooey tends to play many times away from the 50 m arc and too far to kick goals at times because we has G there. Time will tell.

[saintsRrising]

Yes...but with roo having to keep returning to FF it keeps him within goal scoring range.

Closer to goal Roo is quite deadly....from the 50m arc he is not as effective.

[bigcarl]

both are terrific players, albiet with different strengths.

riewoldt: huge tank and endurance, good hands, extremely mobile, okay kick for goal.

kosi: very strong contested mark, less mobile, good kick for goal.

logically kosi should play ff and roo chf. but there would be nothing wrong with switching them around depending on match-ups and the match situation.

[saintsRrising]

both are terrific players, albiet with different strengths.

.

Indeed...and this well help to make them a great combination....as well as in assisting in exploiting chib=nks in oppostion backlines.


Importantly too Kosi is a very good kick for a player of his size...as many guys of his height are not as good.

[yipper]

both are terrific players, albiet with different strengths.

.

Indeed...and this well help to make them a great combination....as well as in assisting in exploiting chib=nks in oppostion backlines.


Importantly too Kosi is a very good kick for a player of his size...as many guys of his height are not as good.

Yes, and he can give it a roost from a long way out to!! A thumping kick - so he can still be dangerous further out from goal.

[saintsRrising]

Yes, and he can give it a roost from a long way out to!! A thumping kick - so he can still be dangerous further out from goal.

Indeed...and this is another reason why I favour often having Roo move closer to goal with Kosi further out.....


In practice with both alternating...

Roo at FF would for example givea FB like Scarletta big challenge whereas Scarlett on Kosi may have Scarlett exploiting Kosi by running off him more.