Whats all this about depth????

[supersaints]

I am as enthusiastic a supporter as anyone but quite a few posts are saying that the pre season draft has given us the best depth we have had for ages etc , etc etc
While the draft was very good in terms of draft picks given versus players` picked up (In fact exeptional) and quality of recruits is good - lets not get carried away - yet

In reality we have only -
Replaced Gherig a champion forward with Gardiner , a smaller forward who has struggled to get a senior game for five years (except for 2005) where he finished is highest - 22nd in his clubs best and fairest.
Replaced Clarke an aging ruckman with King, another one who is ageing, and who struggled with injury and form all last year, until the GF and then was cut from the team. (but I beleive King will be a better ruckman)
Replaced a tiring but effective centerman in Thompson with a younger center prospect in Schnieder
Replaced Voss a courageous utility with another utility in Dempster.
So where is all the extra depth ???????, its only just covering our retirements..
So in "Depth" terms compared to 2007 so far, I make in about a nil all draw !!!!!!! I think our ruck stocks may be a little better our forward line a little poorer and our on ball / utiility area about the same.

I know they are retirements we had to have , but they were all quite skilled and regular seniors... Our improvement will come from the younger players gaining experience.
I sincerley welcome the new recruits and hope they are just as regular and as good, as those other faithfull servants who have departed.

I have never bagged any player on this forum who has pulled on the red white and black ,and I am not bagging the new recruits. just pointing out they have big boots to fill All of you that seem to get a kick out of bagging your own players have a good look at yourselves, or maybe follow another club, after all we are supposed to be SUPPORTERS.

[plugger66]

I am as enthusiastic a supporter as anyone but quite a few posts are saying that the pre season draft has given us the best depth we have had for ages etc , etc etc
While the draft was very good in terms of draft picks given versus players` picked up (In fact exeptional) and quality of recruits is good - lets not get carried away - yet

In reality we have only -
Replaced Gherig a champion forward with Gardiner , a smaller forward who has struggled to get a senior game for five years (except for 2005) where he finished is highest - 22nd in his clubs best and fairest.
Replaced Clarke an aging ruckman with King, another one who is ageing, and who struggled with injury and form all last year, until the GF and then was cut from the team. (but I beleive King will be a better ruckman)
Replaced a tiring but effective centerman in Thompson with a younger center prospect in Schnieder
Replaced Voss a courageous utility with another utility in Dempster.
So where is all the extra depth ???????, its only just covering our retirements..
So in "Depth" terms compared to 2007 so far, I make in about a nil all draw !!!!!!! I think our ruck stocks may be a little better our forward line a little poorer and our on ball / utiility area about the same.

I know they are retirements we had to have , but they were all quite skilled and regular seniors... Our improvement will come from the younger players gaining experience.
I sincerley welcome the new recruits and hope they are just as regular and as good, as those other faithfull servants who have departed.

I have never bagged any player on this forum who has pulled on the red white and black ,and I am not bagging the new recruits. just pointing out they have big boots to fill All of you that seem to get a kick out of bagging your own players have a good look at yourselves, or maybe follow another club, after all we are supposed to be SUPPORTERS.

I think that is a correct assessment but the other option was not trading for any of them and we have no replacements so would then be in further trouble. Lets face it pick 26 in the draft wasnt going to get us a four in one player.

[supersaints]

I am as enthusiastic a supporter as anyone but quite a few posts are saying that the pre season draft has given us the best depth we have had for ages etc , etc etc
While the draft was very good in terms of draft picks given versus players` picked up (In fact exeptional) and quality of recruits is good - lets not get carried away - yet

In reality we have only -
Replaced Gherig a champion forward with Gardiner , a smaller forward who has struggled to get a senior game for five years (except for 2005) where he finished is highest - 22nd in his clubs best and fairest.
Replaced Clarke an aging ruckman with King, another one who is ageing, and who struggled with injury and form all last year, until the GF and then was cut from the team. (but I beleive King will be a better ruckman)
Replaced a tiring but effective centerman in Thompson with a younger center prospect in Schnieder
Replaced Voss a courageous utility with another utility in Dempster.
So where is all the extra depth ???????, its only just covering our retirements..
So in "Depth" terms compared to 2007 so far, I make in about a nil all draw !!!!!!! I think our ruck stocks may be a little better our forward line a little poorer and our on ball / utiility area about the same.

I know they are retirements we had to have , but they were all quite skilled and regular seniors... Our improvement will come from the younger players gaining experience.
I sincerley welcome the new recruits and hope they are just as regular and as good, as those other faithfull servants who have departed.

I have never bagged any player on this forum who has pulled on the red white and black ,and I am not bagging the new recruits. just pointing out they have big boots to fill All of you that seem to get a kick out of bagging your own players have a good look at yourselves, or maybe follow another club, after all we are supposed to be SUPPORTERS.

I think that is a correct assessment but the other option was not trading for any of them and we have no replacements so would then be in further trouble. Lets face it pick 26 in the draft wasnt going to get us a four in one player.

I think we in agrreance I stated it was great drafting, was not suggesting we did not trade.... my point is we had to !!

[Riewoldting]

Schneider was recruited as a small/mid forward; I don't believe he will have the fitness to play as a centreman.

Also, don't look at it as straight swaps (Gardiner for Gehrig, Dempster for Voss etc). That's oversimplifying it.

Think of it more as giving us the flexibility to restructure the team. In 2006 our lack of forward depth meant we were forced to play Riewoldt in the goalsquare. In 2007 our lack of backline depth meant we were forced to play Gwilt as a key back (and he performed very well, considered his capabilities). In both years our lack of ruck depth meant we were forced to play Rix as #1 ruck and Blake (a tall tagger/utility) as his back-up.

While it is true that we have lost a lot more in retirements than we have gained in trade week, the recruitment of these four players along with the forced removal of Gehrig from the equation allows us to restructure the side so that we can kick winning scores again - at the end of the day, for the loss of pick 26.

That's the exciting part.

[Otiman]

The truth is that we are replacing never-will-be's with possible future champions, however slim that possibility is.

Retirees being replaced by traded players
Delistees being replaced by draftees and rookie elevations.

[mad saint guy]

Look at the types of player we had an abundance of:

Medium/tall defensive flankers
Backup ruckmen

The areas we were lacking in

Midfield depth
Quick half-forwards
Quality ruckmen
Key defence depth

What have we traded for? One was a quick half-forward (desperately needed), and the others were ordinary flankers and another backup ruckman. We still severely lack midfield depth, key defence depth and due to our delistings we now lack key forward depth.

Sure, if Leigh Fisher or Raph Clarke go down we have got 10 replacements in waiting for them. But we still have no backup for Lenny, Dal and Joey and now we would be completely screwed if one of Roo or Kosi go down.

[Riewoldting]

But we still have no backup for Lenny, Dal and Joey and now we would be completely screwed if one of Roo or Kosi go down.

You're right, we should have gone hard for Kerr, Hodge, Franklin and Westhoff.

I am disgusted that we weren't able to improve the depth of our list by securing these players.

Lyon and co. have let us all down.

[saintsRrising]

I don't know why so many posters are bagging the 4 pick ups just because TWO of them were Gardiner and Dempster.

It is a bit like bagging your first pick in the draft just because you don't like your last pick!!!!

I am mainly an advocate of picking kids....but when you have a good deal on offer you take it...and King and Schneider were both great deals. King was an exceptional deal.


We grabbed the GTrain and Hamil when they were on offer...and Powell in the PSD. If you can get ok to good players for LESS than they are worth then you go for it. The problem with GT post Waldron is that he gained poor players for MORE than they were worth.

We GAINED Schneider and King who both clearly improve our best possible 22.

In addition King for pick 90 is a FREE pick up...as pick 90 will not be used. So why complain about getting such a handy player for nil?????



The Swans and Cats were both under salary cap pressure....and so you will probably discover that we had to also take G & D off their hands so that we could get K & S....a bit lick in some deals where a player swaps clubs and the old club still pays for part of the salary.


This is ok....as given there track record both G & D are at least worthy back up players in case of injury. But remember that these two are only a bonus...and not the heart of what we wanted. If either play senior footy....then that us just extra cream.



All this is what is widely regarded as week draft with not much on offer beyond pick 20


We still have our pick 9 which should gain a quality kid........with picks 42 and 58 for some lucky dip kids.

Add this to last year where Armo and Allen look very likely to succeed....with Howard still an unknown....and with the rookies of Attard and Geary looking ok as well.....and our list is heading in the right direction once again.



Don't focus on Gardiner and Dempster....focus on King and Schneider who were good pick ups.

[stinger]

I am as enthusiastic a supporter as anyone but quite a few posts are saying that the pre season draft has given us the best depth we have had for ages etc , etc etc
While the draft was very good in terms of draft picks given versus players` picked up (In fact exeptional) and quality of recruits is good - lets not get carried away - yet

All of you that seem to get a kick out of bagging your own players have a good look at yourselves, or maybe follow another club, after all we are supposed to be SUPPORTERS.

i agree with the first part of your post....i think that what we have done so far will improve the scorpions chances of making the finals next year...apart from that we can only hope for the best.....

...only st kilda player i have ever bagged is rix...but in reality it is not his fault that he is not blessed with natural footballing ability.....

..in the end..if charlier and dempster pull on saints jumpers i suppose we will all get behind them..or most of us....doesn't mean that we can't express an opinion about wanting or not wanting any particular opposition player at the club though.....

[stinger]

I

The Swans and Cats were both under salary cap pressure....and so you will probably discover that we had to also take G & D off their hands so that we could get K & S....a bit lick in some deals where a player swaps clubs and the old club still pays for part of the salary.

not so... or so i'm told......dempster's manager also manages gardiner...and was frustrated that there was no interest in him...tried selling his virtues to kenny on the basis that we needed a fast leading forward with stamina after fraser retired...kenny rang lyon for advice and the deal was done.....

[mad saint guy]

You're right, we should have gone hard for Kerr, Hodge, Franklin and Westhoff.

I am disgusted that we weren't able to improve the depth of our list by securing these players.

Lyon and co. have let us all down.

Hadley, Bolton and Dyson are all players who would slot into our best 22 and improve our midfield. None of them would have cost anyting of note. Makes much more sense to go for some much needed midfield depth than to give Ferguson some more competition for a spot on a back flank at Casey.

Simply by not delisting Watts and Brooks we would have retained good cover for Roo and Kosi.

[Riewoldting]

Simply by not delisting Watts and Brooks we would have retained good cover for Roo and Kosi.

Define "good cover".

Roo was injured in 2005. How many games did Brooks play in his absence?
Kosi was injured in 2006. How many games did Watts play in his absence?

Both are fit and healthy and will kick more than 100 goals between them in 2008.

Do you have any grasp of risk management principles?

[fonz_#15]

hadlee has had 2 knee reco's, hardly what we need at our club.

[joffaboy]

Hadley, Bolton and Dyson are all players who would slot into our best 22 and improve our midfield.

You entitled to your opinion but I beg to differ. Bolton is past it, Dyson is average and Hadley a complete dissapointment. None would have improved our midfield.

OTOH Rossy has picked up a mid that can cover for Bakes for the first quarter of the season or go back and play an Attard role freeing up the likes of Goddard or Gram.

None of them would have cost anyting of note. Makes much more sense to go for some much needed midfield depth than to give Ferguson some more competition for a spot on a back flank at Casey.

you wonder why they wouldn't have cost us anything? Because they are either past it or hacks or would add nothing to what our list needs.

We have a strong midfield and others like Armo to come into it plus a bloke who can substitute for Bakes.

Simply by not delisting Watts and Brooks we would have retained good cover for Roo and Kosi.

lol - both King and Gardiner can go forward, we also have Schneider who can kick the odd goal, also a bloke called Milne.

You want us to keep blokes on the list who are clearly not up to it.

Brooks and Watts can nominate for the PSD if either aren't redrafted and we will see how valuable they are at that time.

[Riewoldting]

Makes much more sense to go for some much needed midfield depth than to give Ferguson some more competition for a spot on a back flank at Casey.

King: not a back flanker
Schneider: not a back flanker
Gardiner: not a back flanker
Dempster: back flanker, but predominantly a tagger / shut-down player, not an attacking half-back. Is fit and can roost it. Arguably superior to Ferguson.

What is this "much-needed midfield depth"? Going into 2008 the mids will be:

Hayes - back to pre-knee reco best
Dal Santo - prime of his career
Ball - has had surgery, expect him to move more freely in 08
Montagna - super player, has worked hard and is now in our top 10
Harvey - more suited to the forward line these days but still better than most AFL midfielders
Baker - missing for the first quarter of the season only. Just keeps on shutting them down
Goddard - if Hayes is anything to go by, can be expected to play some good footy next year. Rehab is progressing well
Gram - expect him to spend more time in the midfield next year. Has cut his teeth in the backline and with a big preseason can play on the ball
Fiora - coming off the best season of his career
Armitage - has had another year in the system, will benefit from another AFL preseason
Birss - lacks class but can find the pill, has exceeded expectations
Blake - spare-parts tagger
Dempster - premiership tagger with a future
Eddy and Geary - 20-year-olds cutting it up for Casey
Milne - can rotate on the ball if not getting near it up forward
Schneider - wants to play midfield but not fit enough. Lyon may set him a challenge
Pick #9: if we can't get a ruckman, don't be surprised to see it go on a ready-to-play midfielder a la Selwood, Palmer or Masten

So including pick #9, that's 18 players I count that can play midfield. I think we're not doing too bad in that area.

I take your point about mids being available during trade week; however Bolton is too old and Hadley is damaged goods.

[fonz_#15]

good post riewoldting, plenty of depth there.

[woooosaints]

masten and palmer both currently have OP

[Teflon]

great post reiwoldting.

[mad saint guy]

Define "good cover".

Roo was injured in 2005. How many games did Brooks play in his absence?
Kosi was injured in 2006. How many games did Watts play in his absence?

The little bloke called Gehrig had something to do with that. The chances are that at least one of Roo or Kosi will miss a few games in 2008 and they will become our only reliable source of goals. The opposition will identify that and double or triple team them. With Watts we would have had someone who could sit in the goal square and take a few contested marks. He was never going to be a 70-goal forward, but he would provide a genuine target and could kick 25 goals from 15 games. Brooks was a super-quick leading forward in the Rusling mould. Start deep and just go all-out on a lead. With decent delivery and his strong marking he would be a dangerous forward.

Hayes - back to pre-knee reco best
Dal Santo - prime of his career
Ball - has had surgery, expect him to move more freely in 08
Montagna - super player, has worked hard and is now in our top 10
Harvey - more suited to the forward line these days but still better than most AFL midfielders
Baker - missing for the first quarter of the season only. Just keeps on shutting them down
Goddard - if Hayes is anything to go by, can be expected to play some good footy next year. Rehab is progressing well
Gram - expect him to spend more time in the midfield next year. Has cut his teeth in the backline and with a big preseason can play on the ball
Fiora - coming off the best season of his career
Armitage - has had another year in the system, will benefit from another AFL preseason
Birss - lacks class but can find the pill, has exceeded expectations
Blake - spare-parts tagger
Dempster - premiership tagger with a future
Eddy and Geary - 20-year-olds cutting it up for Casey
Milne - can rotate on the ball if not getting near it up forward
Schneider - wants to play midfield but not fit enough. Lyon may set him a challenge

Goddard, Gram, Schneider, Milne and Dempster will rarely, if ever play in the midfield. Eddy and Geary are no certainties to play in 2008. Blake and Armitage might spend some time there, but only as fill-ins or emergency mids (others go down during the game).

That leaves
Hayes - Very good player, but probably not elite
Dal Santo - Hopefully he will take his game up a level, but if the past 3 seasons are anything to go by he will just be a good, clean midfielder. No star
Montagna - Has become exactly what we needed of him. We need more fringe players to look at how Joey has developed
Harvey - He should still spend a bit of time in the middle, but at age 37 he will have to lessen the workload
Baker - A solid tagger, but nothing more
Armitage - Could be a revelation if he has a huge pre season. The raw talent is there, but need to work on his fitness and sharpen up his skills/decision-making
Birss - Decent depth midfielder. Has surprisingly good skills and reasonable pace. I wouldn't be surprised if he plays 20 games next year

That is 6, possibly 7 players who are AFL-quality midfielders. West Coast have Kerr, Cousins, Stenglein, Braun, Fletcher, Priddis, Rosa, Hurn, Waters and Embley. We need number slike that.

[Oh When the Saints]

Okay if we need numbers of midfielders like that, I reckon we'd better delist Brooks and Watts (lumbering key forwards), and give ourselves 3-4 draft picks in this year's draft.

Oh, wait ......


Even if I agree with your philosophy, how has our trade period prevented us from continuing to add young players to the list?

We will draft 4 and 3 rookies. That's 7 new 18-year olds (1/6 of the list).

[Riewoldting]

So Brooks was recruited in 2002 to play full-forward from 2008-on?

"Bloody hell Ross, Kosi's gone down again! Better give Brooksy a call-up!"
"Nope, GT said he wants him for after G retires. We can't play him yet."



Dempster rarely to play midfield. Christ

No wonder you think our midfield stocks are low. You left out Luke Ball

Dal Santo is our most skilful midfielder since Winmar, and our most creative half-back since Aussie Jones. He will win a Brownlow medal. He is one of our absolutely untouchable players. Yet to you he's "no star".

Officially no idea

[Animal Enclosure]

Mad Saint Guy what have you been on over the past week???

I did think you had a really good grasp on footy & enjoyed your posts. Unfortunately you have lost me in one sentence

"Brooks was a super-quick leading forward in the Rusling mould"

Big Bazza the Spazza was a big lumbering doofus. He couldn't get more than a handful of games in a side that was crying out for a decent ruck/forward. I can guarantee you that if Sean Rusling was on our list he would have played a shite load more games than the 'Spazza'.

Your depth argument is tenuous to say the least. You cannot say 'we recruited C.Gardiner to replace the G-Train'. Fraser is gone & our best option to replace him is Kosi. We have now recruited a bloke in King that can allow Kosi to play at FF. I am surprised at Watts' delisting & do agree that may end up hurting us. However, they obviously rate Jarryd Allen very highly & want to be able to give him opportunities as the 3rd forward or as a replacement key forward for injuries.

Dempster will play a lot of senior footy next year. Despite being limited as a 'pure footballer', Dempster is a good stopper, can tag, is 192cm, reasonably quick and at the very least, will allow Gram, Gilbert, BJ and even Raph to move into the midfield. This is where your argument falls down. Thos blokes have been forced or been given time to develop to play down back but I believe will be of much better use in the midfield. Gram especially has the tools to be a top flight on baller... a bit of confidence & he could be a middle class man's Judd.

Schneider will help us no end if teams continue to double & triple team Roo & Kosi. While teams have been able to 'cheat' in the past & lock down Milne & thus shut down our forward line. Schneider will add that little bit extra that will either free up Milne or provide another crumber. If he really does want to play in the midfield then the challenge is there for him to get super fit. If he does he will not be our key mid but someone that just adds to the rotation. Again...depth.

C.Gardiner is the mystery package. On his past performance he has promised a heap & delivered not much. Maybe his year at VFL level will motivate him to work his arse off & get the best out of himself. Maybe he will spend the year at Casey & then be moved on. Whatever the case we got him for nothing & he is worth the risk. If he has taken Brooks place on the list then it's an even swap at this time. He would be behind Allen for the 3rd tall spot at present. Hopefully competition will be healthy & drive these blokes to work hard.

That leaves
Hayes - Very good player, but probably not elite
Dal Santo - Hopefully he will take his game up a level, but if the past 3 seasons are anything to go by he will just be a good, clean midfielder. No star


You're very hard on Lenny mate. He is one of the very best going around. Maybe you have a short memory & can't remember Lendog's form before his knee.

I totally agree with your assessment of Dal. Hopefully what Ablett did this year will inspire him to get fair dinkum. He could dominate but just doesn't work hard enough in games to get to that level consistently. Ball & Hayes fitness affects Dal's performance much more than it should.

I'm happy to agree to disagree with you on some points MSG but try to have a look at the bigger picture. As SaintsRising correctly posted we still have 6-7 draft selections (national, rookie & PSD) to come that may well bring 4 young mids, a young ruckman & maybe even a Fergus Watts.

Keep the faith, Ross, John and Archie are on the right track.

[mad saint guy]

"Brooks was a super-quick leading forward in the Rusling mould"

Did you see any of his pre season games this year? Played as our full forward in most of them and burnt off opponents at will. He might no tbe a quick thinker, but in a set play that involves Brooks leading from the goal square, no opponent wil be able to spoil effectively. Too tall and too fast. I think one of his problems was knowing when and where to lead. With some specialist forwad coaching I have no doubt that he would at least become a useful third target.

Dempster will play a lot of senior footy next year. Despite being limited as a 'pure footballer', Dempster is a good stopper, can tag, is 192cm, reasonably quick and at the very least, will allow Gram, Gilbert, BJ and even Raph to move into the midfield. This is where your argument falls down. Thos blokes have been forced or been given time to develop to play down back but I believe will be of much better use in the midfield.

If that is your opinion then that is fine. I think that Gram is a great rebounding defender and would just be a slightly above average midfielder. Goddard won't have the fitness to play midfield for a couple of years and he would need to change his game a lot if he became an effective midfielder. Gilbert would be handy as an impact mid to rotate through the center occasionally, but not a permanent option. Raph has a long, long way to go. I don't think any of those players will be effective midfielders in 2008.

Schneider will help us no end if teams continue to double & triple team Roo & Kosi. While teams have been able to 'cheat' in the past & lock down Milne & thus shut down our forward line. Schneider will add that little bit extra that will either free up Milne or provide another crumber. If he really does want to play in the midfield then the challenge is there for him to get super fit. If he does he will not be our key mid but someone that just adds to the rotation. Again...depth.

Schneider is exactly the type of player we needed and I am very glad to have him. If he can just equal Guerra's contribution of 2004 he will add a lot to the side. Hopefully he will have a big pre season and get the fitness to pinch-hit in the midfield.

C.Gardiner is the mystery package. On his past performance he has promised a heap & delivered not much. Maybe his year at VFL level will motivate him to work his arse off & get the best out of himself. Maybe he will spend the year at Casey & then be moved on.

I would rather Sweeney or Brooks on the list ahead of Gardiner.He has performed at VFL level, but not at AFL level. He couldn't break into Geelong's pathetic forward line in 2006 and his skills are ordinary for VFL level. I just don't see any reason for having him on the list ahead of Sweeney or Brooks. Both of the two we had perform just as well in the VFL and haven't done badly when given game time in the seniors. Both of them had superior skills and marking to Gardiner.

You're very hard on Lenny mate. He is one of the very best going around. Maybe you have a short memory & can't remember Lendog's form before his knee.

In 2006 he was on his way to a top 3 Brownlow finish and a B&F. I remember that very well. I would be thrilled if he does get back to that level, but I would be surprised if he gets any better than his late 2007 form. He is still a great player, but not quite as damaging or as physically imposing as in 2006. A very good player, but he doesn't stack up against the likes of Judd, Kerr, Ablett, Bartel, C.Cornes or P.Burgoyne. A couple f years. A couple of years ago he was behind only Judd from that group.

I'm happy to agree to disagree with you on some points MSG but try to have a look at the bigger picture. As SaintsRising correctly posted we still have 6-7 draft selections (national, rookie & PSD) to come that may well bring 4 young mids, a young ruckman & maybe even a Fergus Watts.

The main thing I am annoyed about is that we invested so much time in the likes of Brooks, Sweeney, Watts and McQualter (who all appeared to have the natural talent and tools to make it), only to replace them with unwanted GOPs from other teams before we even gave them a chance. Sam Gilbert wasn't doing much at Casey, but we brought him in when we had injuries and he performed at the highest level. How can we know that the delisted players wouldn't have done the same thing? (whereas the players we traded for have all played plenty and haven't performed).

Hopefully we do stock up on kids and don't go through the whole Cain Ackland/Mark McGough process again. In 2007 we had 15 players at St Kilda who had been on another club's list. Geelong had 4. We have now brought in another 4 players from opposition clubs, while Geelong have simply dicarded their unwanted players for draft picks. They now have 2 players on their list who had been at another club.

Keep the faith, Ross, John and Archie are on the right track.

I hope so. In the end, nothing anyone says on here has any impact on the club. What those guys think is all that makes a difference.

[Oh When the Saints]

I would rather Sweeney or Brooks on the list ahead of Gardiner.He has performed at VFL level, but not at AFL level.

What, and Sweeney and Brooks have?

Both of the two we had perform just as well in the VFL and haven't done badly when given game time in the seniors.

C. Gardiner kicked 40 goals and finished 2nd in the B&F of the team that won the VFL premiership.

Brooks and Sweeney could never hope to have such good seasons at VFL level.

In 2007 we had 15 players at St Kilda who had been on another club's list. Geelong had 4. We have now brought in another 4 players from opposition clubs, while Geelong have simply dicarded their unwanted players for draft picks. They now have 2 players on their list who had been at another club.

And Brisbane in 2002 had 7 blokes on their list who were from another club.

St Kilda in 2008 will have 8 blokes on our list who were from another club.


We will have less players on our list in 2008 from another club than we did in 2006 or 2007.

[Armoooo]

I like to look at it like this, if we didn't get King we would have played Kosi in the ruck, so we would have had a slightly better than average ruckman with no full forward, now with King we will have a slightly better than average ruckman with a potential superstar full forward in Koschitzke, so I don't feel that we gained an average ruckman, we gained a great FF.

With Dempster he is very good at shutting players down IMO he just struggles to use the ball himself, but luckily enough we have Goddard coming back who can do just that, so I believe we should replace Attard's spot in the backline with Dempster, which means we would only need one of Goddard or Gram to play off half back with S.Fisher, so really we gained a pacey wingman in Gram (Hopefully).

As for Schneider, he will hopefully be very good for us and take up that attacking HFF role we have been missing out on.
Keeping in mind there were some people who were happy to trade pick 9 for Schneider + a 3rd roudner I think we have done exceptionally well... as for Gardiner, Casey have picked up a great recruit....

Also keep in mind that Dempster is the exact same height as Hudghton and only 3kg lighter, he is also pretty young still and has a lot of improving to do and in my eyes is potentially a future Full Back for the club, keeping in mind I have probably only seen him play about 15 games but IMO he has been a solid player...