Thomas Regime & Brooks, Watts & McQualter

[SuperSaint]

Well if it is true that these 3 have gone, what does it say about the Thomas' foresight in recruiting young players. What a complete waste of first round picks! He professes to know so much on the airwaves about what's best for the club yet failure to bring on quality new blood into the team since 2004 is a big factor in why we have fallen away from the top teams.

I believe he was prinicipally involved in the Brooks deal after he got rid of Everitt and used two first round draft picks for him to get him from Port. I'm sure Mark Williams would have been on cloud nine to get that return for this unmotivated dud. I can recall Thomas sending Brooks away 3 years ago to get some urgency about his desire for playing footy so that "the penny drops" for him, as he put it. Brooks was never at any stage hungry/passionate or competitive enough to play at the highest level.

Easy for GT to pass the buck to John Beveridge all the time about recruiting but a coach has a lot to answer for when it comes to making these decisions also.

Thomas these 3 first round draft failures are more your legacy than anyone elses.

[joffaboy]

Harsh but true.

No matter what the former coach says publicly he has to take responsibility for Brooks and Watts even if the assistant coach convinced him on Brooks.

McQualter was a drafting decision and GT cant be blamed for that, if so he should take the kudos for Sam Fisher or Leigh Montagna.

However Brooks and by the looks of it Watts have proven to be costly mistakes.

[meher baba]

It seems as if some people on this forum are never going to get over GT.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Brooks recruited in 2002? It was rather a long time ago, wasn't it? Mark Williams might well be delighted to have gotten low draft picks for Brooks, but he is probably also kicking himself for having not seen the potential of Sam Fisher: there are many swings and roundabouts in recruitment.

Blaming GT for McQualter not turning out well is extremely rough: he is just another star junior who has failed to develop. Every club has had its share of these.

I tend to go along with the criticism re Watts (who I suspect was the beneficiary of nepotism), although it is hard for anyone to judge how good he might have been in a St Kilda jersey. I do know that the Crows were genuinely reluctant to let him go in 2005.

What we do know for sure is that, since the departure of GT, the club has recruited 7 ageing players rejected by other clubs in two trade weeks.

According to some posters, this sort of recruitment is going to take us to the flag in 2008.

These are the same posters who never stop bleating on about past decisions to recruit the likes McGough and Ackland. But then, that was then and apparently this is now.

[Saints Premiers 2008]

even if we selected gop's with those 4 draft picks we would be a much stronger side...

it seems like he did well in his first few years of recruiting however his last couple were downright terrible

[Mr Magic]

It seems as if some people on this forum are never going to get over GT.

MB, my issue is not what GT did or didn't do. It is the public pronouncement he made on SEN a couple of weeks ago that 'you should never trade away your early draft picks'. No qualification was made to that statement by him.

He seems to now say things in public that are diametrically opposed to what he did?

[meher baba]

It seems as if some people on this forum are never going to get over GT.

MB, my issue is not what GT did or didn't do. It is the public pronouncement he made on SEN a couple of weeks ago that 'you should never trade away your early draft picks'. No qualification was made to that statement by him.

He seems to now say things in public that are diametrically opposed to what he did?

Maybe he's like a reformed alcoholic exhorting people to stay off the demon drink!!

[savatage]

Can't disagree with that SuperSaint.

[dcstkfc]

brooks came in 2003

he was on port's list in 2002

[SuperSaint]

It seems as if some people on this forum are never going to get over GT.

MB, my issue is not what GT did or didn't do. It is the public pronouncement he made on SEN a couple of weeks ago that 'you should never trade away your early draft picks'. No qualification was made to that statement by him.

He seems to now say things in public that are diametrically opposed to what he did?

Exactly, well put Mr Magic. He is a two faced person who should crawl under a rock and disappear.

[Solar]

just a few points,

they pick we traded for watts has been delisted by the crows. Just drafting is not the be all end all. He was young and we knew that we needed to develop a full forward for when G retired. Not GT's fault he has been struck down by injuries and never really developed.

Brooks was the highest rated ruckman in the judd/ball/hodge super draft the year before we traded for him. He was 19, very highly rated by port and they got a VERY good trade for him. We risked it and in hindsight it did not pay off. But he was 19, very skilled and had a good jump. He lost that spring with his knee injury and never got a real chance at AFL level. Yes most likely this was because of his attitude, but to pick out a couple of trades in hindsight is a little laughable.

And to blame him for mcqualter.... sheesh, some people need to build a bridge.......

[saintsRrising]

MB.....some of us cannot forget GT because we understand that the Saints could have and should have round about now and over the last year or two, have had the best list in our history.



It is pretty clear that when GT was left by himself to oversee our list that he did an appalling job.

When Waldron left the wheels fell off at the Saints in our List Management.

Yes anyone can get a few decisions wrong, and yes this is all part of the drafting process that not all will make it,. Footy is a game of percentages...but with GT is was the bulk of them that went sour post Waldron. That is his record.


Mini you can understand...as you say not all work out.

But if you look at the players that GT gained from other clubs post Waldron and the price paid for them you see a pattern of failure...that too many did not work out....and indeed too many that were clearly flawed. In particularly he PAID well over the odds for rejected players.

GT also failed to see how the game was evolving and traded for players who were dreadfully slow or with poor footskills.


Equating this weeks trade of 4 players for effectively pick 26 with GT's trading is not much of a comparison at all.

Now last years trade for Birrs can be compared to GT's trading....and one could argue that his recruiting and McG's were comparable risks. However to be fair to RL while he rubber stamped the deal that he had only just been appointed. However both years RL has kept his first picks.....and so far has not traded for the players well above their worth....and more importantly for players that had no future.

Add to this his OVERPAYING of good young players so that:

1/ we had to play short of the maximum number of players...which when you have lots of injuries really bites you on the bum PLUS it reduces your future renewal

2/ having to go for long terms deals with both Penny and Hamill..which in both cases backfired badly.


Then add GT's ssystematic failure to understand that you have to build a team of an appropriate mix of player types......and to realise when various players will be at the end of their careers.

So we ended up with a huge number of players that can play half back flank...too many big slow forward options..

BUT too few small to medium forwards...NO DECENT ruckmen....too few midfielders (particularly with Powell, Peckett, Thommo and Harvey all aging..)



GT was quite frankly clueless about list management......with "lucky dip" picks post Waldon seeming to be the rule.

[Art Vandelay]

GT has to learn to shut his mouth. Along with that tool Brian Waldron, they are making comments in the media which are nothing short of embarassing for the St.KFC.

[saintly]

MB.....some of us cannot forget GT because we understand that the Saints could have and should have round about now and over the last year or two, have had the best list in our history.



It is pretty clear that when GT was left by himself to oversee our list that he did an appalling job.

When Waldron left the wheels fell off at the Saints in our List Management.

Yes anyone can get a few decisions wrong, and yes this is all part of the drafting process that not all will make it,. Footy is a game of percentages...but with GT is was the bulk of them that went sour post Waldron. That is his record.


Mini you can understand...as you say not all work out.

But if you look at the players that GT gained from other clubs post Waldron and the price paid for them you see a pattern of failure...that too many did not work out....and indeed too many that were clearly flawed. In particularly he PAID well over the odds for rejected players.

GT also failed to see how the game was evolving and traded for players who were dreadfully slow or with poor footskills.


Equating this weeks trade of 4 players for effectively pick 26 with GT's trading is not much of a comparison at all.

Now last years trade for Birrs can be compared to GT's trading....and one could argue that his recruiting and McG's were comparable risks. However to be fair to RL while he rubber stamped the deal that he had only just been appointed. However both years RL has kept his first picks.....and so far has not traded for the players well above their worth....and more importantly for players that had no future.

Add to this his OVERPAYING of good young players so that:

1/ we had to play short of the maximum number of players...which when you have lots of injuries really bites you on the bum PLUS it reduces your future renewal

2/ having to go for long terms deals with both Penny and Hamill..which in both cases backfired badly.


Then add GT's ssystematic failure to understand that you have to build a team of an appropriate mix of player types......and to realise when various players will be at the end of their careers.

So we ended up with a huge number of players that can play half back flank...too many big slow forward options..

BUT too few small to medium forwards...NO DECENT ruckmen....too few midfielders (particularly with Powell, Peckett, Thommo and Harvey all aging..)



GT was quite frankly clueless about list management......with "lucky dip" picks post Waldon seeming to be the rule.

don't also forget the lack of development for young players who were not stars and the lack of rookie recruitment.

[barks4eva]

Well if it is true that these 3 have gone, what does it say about the Thomas' foresight in recruiting young players. What a complete waste of first round picks! He professes to know so much on the airwaves about what's best for the club yet failure to bring on quality new blood into the team since 2004 is a big factor in why we have fallen away from the top teams.

I believe he was prinicipally involved in the Brooks deal after he got rid of Everitt and used two first round draft picks for him to get him from Port. I'm sure Mark Williams would have been on cloud nine to get that return for this unmotivated dud. I can recall Thomas sending Brooks away 3 years ago to get some urgency about his desire for playing footy so that "the penny drops" for him, as he put it. Brooks was never at any stage hungry/passionate or competitive enough to play at the highest level.

Easy for GT to pass the buck to John Beveridge all the time about recruiting but a coach has a lot to answer for when it comes to making these decisions also.

Thomas these 3 first round draft failures are more your legacy than anyone elses.

Someone around this place with a fair dinkum clue


Thomas says you should never give up your fisrt round draft selection

Don't follow what the monkey do, do what the monkey say's

although, I wouldn't blame Thomas for McQualter

BUT

Rendell and Thomas were responsible for giving up TWO draft picks for Brooks pick 6 and 31 after Port drafted him the year before for pick 15

Rendell's previous association with Port netted us Brooks, Guerra and Ackland

FACT = Thomas and Rendell made the call on Brooks, this is 100% gospel


Three first round draft selections delisted, three draft selections two first round, one second round traded away for what?

McGough was actually 100% Thomas's call and noone but Thomas

Interesting

From these 7 players drafted

McGough
Ackland
Knobel
Guerra
Brooks
McQualter
Watts

what have we recieved in return?

A. zero, zip, nothing, nada, nought, donught's, diddly squat, SFA

All delisted or walked

You cannot have SEVEN players drop off your list and when you include Penny EIGHT, that's FOUR first round draft selections and we have ended up with nothing in return

This is the principle reason why we have been in decline since 2006

RECRUITING is the lifeblood of any football club

stuff it up and you end up like Richmond




btw, what's happening with Thomas's legal action against the St.Kilda football club, which includes $167,000 for holiday even after he signed a stat dec stating he had already been paid out in full for all his annual leave entitlements!
anyone?


seriously he should give back money for stuffing up this club and sending it backwards through his sheer numbnut buffoonery and incompetence

afterall he got $500,000 straight up with no previous experience, reckon he should be happy with the more than 2.5 million the club has already paid him

particularly when you consider all the players who truly bled red, white and black and took 22.5 cents in the dollar to make sure there was a football club around for Thomas to sue, in the first place

FAIR DINKUM

[Saints Premiers 2008]

so you need more rope???

[crowjelly]

[quote="Mr Magic"][quote="meher baba"]It seems as if some people on this forum are never going to get over GT.
[/quote]

MB, my issue is not what GT did or didn't do. It is the public pronouncement he made on SEN a couple of weeks ago that 'you should never trade away your early draft picks'. No qualification was made to that statement by him.

He seems to now say things in public that are diametrically opposed to what he did?[/quote]

Isn't that the dictionary definition of a hypocrite?

[Otiman]

According to some posters, this sort of recruitment is going to take us to the flag in 2008.

I think that 2008 is reliant on other clubs stagnating somewhat, and Geelong suffering a few injuries. I don't see a dramatic improvement from us that could take us from 9th to 1st. Top 4 is a realistic possibility given a good gameplan/forward structure, but our midfield is still severely lacking in a few areas.

[Joffa Burns]

I am a huge believer in not trading your first and second round draft picks.

I did not like the trading of second round picks for Gram, Guerra, Black or first round pick for Penny as I'd prefer to use them on young talent.
But it is hard to argue with the logic of picking up players like the above four when you compared to possible selections like Mini who do not cut it.

I understand why picks were traded for Brooks as we had recieved two picks for Spider so they were in effect over and above our standard picks. I believe the club looked at the deal as BROOKS for SPIDER. A 19 yo highly rated ruckman for a departing 29 yo ruckman who wanted out. Looked good at the time and now in isolation looks very very ugly.

I was furious that we used second and third round picks on delisted cast off hacks like Ackland and McGough. Delisted players are for the PSD or rookie list IMO not second and third rounders. Montanga, and the Two Fishers are late late 2nd and 3rd round picks.
You may not always get a good player but you rarely if ever get a ‘goodun’ that has been delisted.

I was also furious when we traded for Watts, we’d lost the plot by then. It was apparent to many on this forum we were screaming for midfielders and pace and we traded our first round pick for a slow KPP whose biggest asset seemed to be his father’s links to the club.

As for our trading this year, against my wish to keep our 1st and 2nd picks I find it hard to argue with Schnieder and Dempster (2 X 23 yo premiership players) for pick 26 and Gardiner and King cost us literally next to NOTHING.

[stinger]

It seems as if some people on this forum are never going to get over GT.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Brooks recruited in 2002? It was rather a long time ago, wasn't it? Mark Williams might well be delighted to have gotten low draft picks for Brooks, but he is probably also kicking himself for having not seen the potential of Sam Fisher: there are many swings and roundabouts in recruitment.

Blaming GT for McQualter not turning out well is extremely rough: he is just another star junior who has failed to develop. Every club has had its share of these.

I tend to go along with the criticism re Watts (who I suspect was the beneficiary of nepotism), although it is hard for anyone to judge how good he might have been in a St Kilda jersey. I do know that the Crows were genuinely reluctant to let him go in 2005.

What we do know for sure is that, since the departure of GT, the club has recruited 7 ageing players rejected by other clubs in two trade weeks.

According to some posters, this sort of recruitment is going to take us to the flag in 2008.

These are the same posters who never stop bleating on about past decisions to recruit the likes McGough and Ackland. But then, that was then and apparently this is now.

good post..my believe is that we should stick to picking youth...then develop our own instead of taking in other pple's trash as some sort of newly discovered treasure...and for that i have been soundly abused and derided by certain posters...still......my skin is thick.....


...oh...it seems that sheldon did have a hand in recruiting gardiner and dempster...well according to two articles in todays papers he did....i should have known .....he has a record..(and convictions).... for recruiting such players......


if it is true that he has already been given his marching orders...then good riddance

[stinger]

I am a huge believer in not trading your first and second round draft picks.

I did not like the trading of second round picks for Gram, Guerra, Black or first round pick for Penny as I'd prefer to use them on young talent.
But it is hard to argue with the logic of picking up players like the above four when you compared to possible selections like Mini who do not cut it.

I understand why picks were traded for Brooks as we had recieved two picks for Spider so they were in effect over and above our standard picks. I believe the club looked at the deal as BROOKS for SPIDER. A 19 yo highly rated ruckman for a departing 29 yo ruckman who wanted out. Looked good at the time and now in isolation looks very very ugly.

I was furious that we used second and third round picks on delisted cast off hacks like Ackland and McGough. Delisted players are for the PSD or rookie list IMO not second and third rounders. Montanga, and the Two Fishers are late late 2nd and 3rd round picks.
You may not always get a good player but you rarely if ever get a ‘goodun’ that has been delisted.

I was also furious when we traded for Watts, we’d lost the plot by then. It was apparent to many on this forum we were screaming for midfielders and pace and we traded our first round pick for a slow KPP whose biggest asset seemed to be his father’s links to the club.

As for our trading this year, against my wish to keep our 1st and 2nd picks I find it hard to argue with Schnieder and Dempster (2 X 23 yo premiership players) for pick 26 and Gardiner and King cost us literally next to NOTHING.

another good post.....but this poster has a proven record for knowing what he is talking about.....

[plugger66]

It seems as if some people on this forum are never going to get over GT.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Brooks recruited in 2002? It was rather a long time ago, wasn't it? Mark Williams might well be delighted to have gotten low draft picks for Brooks, but he is probably also kicking himself for having not seen the potential of Sam Fisher: there are many swings and roundabouts in recruitment.

Blaming GT for McQualter not turning out well is extremely rough: he is just another star junior who has failed to develop. Every club has had its share of these.

I tend to go along with the criticism re Watts (who I suspect was the beneficiary of nepotism), although it is hard for anyone to judge how good he might have been in a St Kilda jersey. I do know that the Crows were genuinely reluctant to let him go in 2005.

What we do know for sure is that, since the departure of GT, the club has recruited 7 ageing players rejected by other clubs in two trade weeks.

According to some posters, this sort of recruitment is going to take us to the flag in 2008.

These are the same posters who never stop bleating on about past decisions to recruit the likes McGough and Ackland. But then, that was then and apparently this is now.

good post..my believe is that we should stick to picking youth...then develop our own instead of taking in other pple's trash as some sort of newly discovered treasure...and for that i have been soundly abused and derided by certain posters...still......my skin is thick.....


...oh...it seems that sheldon did have a hand in recruiting gardiner and dempster...well according to two articles in todays papers he did....i should have known .....he has a record..(and convictions).... for recruiting such players......


if it is true that he has already been given his marching orders...then good riddance

So he got Dempster and Gardiner but had nothing to do with Schneider and King. Well that figures.

[Behind Play]

GT has to learn to shut his mouth. Along with that tool Brian Waldron, they are making comments in the media which are nothing short of embarassing for the St.KFC.

Are you able to elaborate on the embarrassing remarks Waldron is making? I have never once heard him put the club down.

[plugger66]

GT has to learn to shut his mouth. Along with that tool Brian Waldron, they are making comments in the media which are nothing short of embarassing for the St.KFC.

Are you able to elaborate on the embarrassing remarks Waldron is making? I have never once heard him put the club down.

He actually stuffed up yesterday on SEN when he said we tanked and then tried to say he wasnt serious but he usually pretty good.

[ausfatcat]

did you hear the actual convo plegger? Because some people say he didn't but said Carlton tanked, just wanting someone who heard it to clarify what was actually said.

[plugger66]

did you hear the actual convo plegger? Because some people say he didn't but said Carlton tanked, just wanting someone who heard it to clarify what was actually said.

I heard every word. Yes some say he didnt say it but he intially did. There is no doubt but then tried to make a joke of it and said we just werent good enough.