Gilbert

[bungiton]

Love watching this kid play his footy, playing in the backline, there is nothing like watching a guy run flat out attacking the ball. Love the fact that usually anyone he tackles, stays tackled!

With a lot of talk about our midfield stocks and the need to boost our midfield rotations, I would love to see, Gilbert pushed into either the center square or start on a wing. The move of Leigh fisher to a midfield tagging role has seemed to be a good move and with a preseason under his belt, I'm sure he will cement a place in there. With Gilbert moving into the midfield it would seem wise to put BJ back down onto a HBF.

Lets face it, BJ reads the play, is a good overhead mark and is an awesome kick. Whatever the final set up of our forward line for next year, the thought of Gilbert in the middle, with a bit of pace, good hands and lets face it, though his disposal let's him down a little, a quick kick forward from a center bounce invariably favours the attacking team. The assbusting tackles he puts on would also be a huge bonus around the stoppages.

So we could end up with L Fisher in the middle, with Gilbert and a rotation of guys like Baker, Ball, providing his groin is finally 100%, Lenny Hayes and Dal Santo. Birss, BJ and Blake also could play important midfield roles.

With BJ Sam Fisher and Gram on the half backline we get some really good run from defence, with good run and carry type players, especially Goddard who can roost a ball 60 meters or pass beautifully over 40 to 50.

X has been getting a lot of the footy on a forward flank but killing his good work with way below par disposal, Raph could also play hff, or perhaps be given a role on a wing.

A lot of improvement will come not from drafting or trading but from our current list. The most required improvement we need is base fitness, I agree our season 2007 has been one of disappointment, considering the amount of games we had an opponent on toast only to fade and lose or just hang on to a narrow victory. The preseason really needs to address areas of fitness and disposal skills especially kicking for goal.

Every game this year has featured an abundant amount of easy misses, goals that players should automatically kick but we always seem to miss. Case in point, 4 goals 12 against the tigers at our last outing. Pressure is applied in enough areas by an opponent as it is, to pressure ourselves needlessly through crap kicking is a major disappointment for mine.

The list is this or that depending on who is posting but for mine the upside is that there is such a huge scope for improvement from the players we already have, i believe this year might just be the blipp on the radar we needed to progress, the team as a whole progressed at a rate to fast to sustain, the good three years we had, I believe a lot of the players that starred were playing way above themselves prematurely and were found wanting a little this year. Bally has a huge upside if we can get his body right, Armitage and a few other kids playing at Casey level could and should be given every chance to fight for a spot in the first 22, it is the similar type of players that have been in the system for a couple of years for our opponents that have changed their fortunes this year.

No need to make huge drastic list changes this year, if something really good is available at the trade table, go for it, if not make the draft work for us, get kids that will be 200 gamers, regardless of position. If a young quick talented midfielder comes along, fine go for it flat out if not, try getting guys like Gram or Monty to take over those roles. Monty has progressed really well this year and I am confident we have the chaff to not only make us competitive but also be a force again quickly.

Sorry if I'm too optomistic but I'm not ready to lay down and die just yet.

[Cirra]

You make some valid points but I'm not sure Gilbert has the body type to play in the midfield. He seems to be more of a flanker at this stage.

This discussion allows me to raise the question to the forum...why is it that every time a player gets better and more recognition everybody says they should play in the midfield?
For example at one time or another each of the following players have been talked about in this way; X. Carke, Goddard, S. Fisher, Gram and now Gilbert.

I realise that the midfield is extremely important and you need excellent players in that area to win the footy and to therefore help win games. However, I feel that creative flankers are just as important in the way they carry the ball, read the play and set up goal scoring opportunities.

I would like to see the us focus on drafting more midfielders to increase that ares rather than 'stealing' the good players from other positions.

Someone (I can't remember who) on this forum said 'Robbing Peter to pay Paul'....exactly what I mean.

Any thoughts??

[mad saint guy]

You make some valid points but I'm not sure Gilbert has the body type to play in the midfield. He seems to be more of a flanker at this stage.

If you'd never seen him play, one would think that he doesn't have the body to play in the AFL. When we first heard about him being draft we were told that he was a 194cm defender. Considering our full back had just retired we assumed that he would be groomed to be our next full back.

Now that he's had a good run in the seniors he has proved that he can play the less physically demanding spots (half back, third forward option). I don't think it would hurt to see if he can play the tougher positions. The way he throws away tacklers and brings down opposition players running at top pace is amazing. If he could be doing that in the midfield he would be a huge asset to the side.

[Animal Enclosure]

Excellent post, agree with 99% of your points. I'm on the 'Gram in the Guts' bandwagon though. I reckon we can cover Grammy across half back, especially with BJ returning (although I wouldn't mind seeing BJ as the third tall forward).

Fitness is the key to any self improvement from this group. The Kangas have shown what really getting fit can do. They didn't recruit anyone, just got a big improvement in running ability across the board. Being able to get to contests & outrun your man make you more disciplined & able to do the team things.

I do think we will see a pretty high turnover due to retirements and Ross having seen 12 months of some players & deciding that they won't help this club win a flag. Obviously we will lose Gehrig, Thompson, M.Clarke & probably Voss. Under pressure for a delisting looks like including Sweeney, Raymond, Brooks, Ferguson, McQualter (contracted?). That's 7-10 players already. I'd say that there will be at least 1 or 2 that will get one more go, only due to number of retirements. What they do with Attard will be interesting, more than likely they will reward the kid with a senior listing and get him back for 2009. Not sure about senior listing Jones but it does look like Ross likes him, so he'll probably get promoted.

I hope that they do go hard for a quality ruckman...even if Gardy comes good, a solid one-two combo is vital & I'm in the Kosi at FF camp.

Overall I reckon we're in a pretty similar possie to last year in that we need to draft the best kids regardless of position (although quick ball winners with great skills would be handy!) & hope our key players can get a good run with injuries.

[Cirra]

The fact that he can tackle well is awesome but my main problem with him being a midfielder, along with body shape, is his kicking.
Gilbert is a bit of a throw it on the boot and move is forward type of player rather than a pin point pass type of kick.
Don't get me wrong, he actually has okay skills considering his technique but not what I would expect from someone kicking to inside the 50, ala, Dal and Joey.

[bungiton]

With Gilbert, especially the way he goes about his footy is the reason I would like to see him play in the middle of the ground. Reallistically Gilbert took a position vacated by the injury to BJ, with Goddard to return next year, I'd love to see him return to a position he played really well, a ball carrying link man on the hb flank.

Gilbert might be a of a slight build but I reckon his experience of playing rugby for most of his younger life is enough to offset his lack of build in the midfield. As I said when someone is tackled by Gilbert, normally they stay tackled.

For mine getting quality into the midfield is going to go a long way to addressing our deficiencies as a side. We're labelled slow, but amazingly we never seemed to be killed in this area during our good seasons of 04/05. The huge difference over the last two seasons for mine is in areas like disposal and turnovers where we absolutely butchered the ball more often than not.

sides like Sydney and west coast have a huge amount of players that can be rotated through the middle of the ground, although the eagles have some real rolls royce type players in there, effectively it's the second tier players that do a lot of thr grunt work due to the fact that the big boys more often than not get the hard tags.

The more players we can run through the middle will help rest the players we run into the ground every week, and let's face it as Gtrain said on the weekend the days of being a one position player are long gone.

[Armoooo]

We have been hearing nothing but positives all season about Gilbert however on the weekend I saw my first negative, he just didn't want to be there his body language said he didn't care about ending the season with a win, at one point a runner came out to talk to him and he just looked angrily at him and gestured him away, he didn't do any running for the next minute or two and then got dragged. Now I love Gilbert just as much as everyone else and I think he is going to be a 250+ gamer for us but does anyone think he has become a little too comfortable in his position at the team, I am not seeing as many of those 1%ers that we love and he just doesn't seem to be giving 110% mind you his 105% is still a fair effort.

[mad saint guy]

The fact that he can tackle well is awesome but my main problem with him being a midfielder, along with body shape, is his kicking.

He certainly doesn't have silky skills, but his disposal is no wose than that of Lenny or Ball. If he gets a quick kick from the center it doesn't need to be a pin-point pass. A long kick to Kosi or Roo put to the right side will usually result in a goal.

[bungiton]

Another aspect of Gilbert is his massive fend, another hangover from his rugby days. Love the way for such a slight player he just plants his mitt in the middle of a tacklers chest and throws them out of his way.

I reckon disposal from the middle of the ground is not a huge drama either, yes if you can get a player who puts the ball lace out on the chest of a leading forward, excelelnt. But if you get a player who WINS the ball in the middle and belts it forward with any sort of kick invariably it will fall on the chest of a forward due to the fact they play in front. A misskick can be just as damaging more often than not as a beautiful pass.

[bungiton]

We have been hearing nothing but positives all season about Gilbert however on the weekend I saw my first negative, he just didn't want to be there his body language said he didn't care about ending the season with a win, at one point a runner came out to talk to him and he just looked angrily at him and gestured him away, he didn't do any running for the next minute or two and then got dragged. Now I love Gilbert just as much as everyone else and I think he is going to be a 250+ gamer for us but does anyone think he has become a little too comfortable in his position at the team, I am not seeing as many of those 1%ers that we love and he just doesn't seem to be giving 110% mind you his 105% is still a fair effort.

As a player last saturday was like dancing with your sister, it might look alright, feel all right and even seem all right, but really nothing could really come from it.

A young bloke in his first full season of AFL, a little off in a dead rubber, from the result, I'm sure Gilbert wasn't the only one looking at the clock on saturday.

[snoopygirl]

Considering how down on himself he was after last weeks game against WCE, I don't think it would matter to him what the outcome was, he would still be giving 100%. Think you may have misread his body language Armooo.

[saintsRrising]

[. If he gets a quick kick from the center it doesn't need to be a pin-point pass. A long kick to Kosi or Roo put to the right side will usually result in a goal.

I have to disagree....

One of the BIG problems our tall forwards have is that many Saints players do not kick it accurately when they pass to them....which is why they all love Banger so much.

many of the best passes are spotting the ball toa spot so that the forwards runs onto it....thus making it hard for the backmen to spoil.

Accuracy is still required as sloppy kicks will be cut off by the other backmen.

While yes there are occassions when the ball just needs to be kicked to the contest.....an accurate pass will still try and advantage the forward.






Gilbert will most likely get much better at his kicking as he is a late comer to Aussie rules.

[Oh When the Saints]

A lot of improvement will come not from drafting or trading but from our current list. The most required improvement we need is base fitness, I agree our season 2007 has been one of disappointment, considering the amount of games we had an opponent on toast only to fade and lose or just hang on to a narrow victory. The preseason really needs to address areas of fitness and disposal skills especially kicking for goal.

Terrific opening post bungiton

Great analysis and I agree with most of your comments.