Pathetic end to a pathetic season

[Oh When the Saints]

Good post saint66au.

I suppose I am an offender ...


We should all be celebrating the champion that is Fraser Gehrig, the wonderful loyalty of Andrew Thompson and the great contribution these two have made to our club.

We've got 6 months to bicker and argue ...

I suppose we should keep it positive for a couple of days.

[maverick]

With the same injuries GT would NOT have done any better with the list IMO.....

Just not happy with the style of footy.......ugly at best...and will not be successfull.....just keeps the opposition in the game, and reqiures belief, character and discipline - we have none of those qualities accross the board (some players have)

who will we copy next.....Geelong

After copying Brisbane in 04/05/06

and Sydney in 07/08

Fair enough I think I agree.
Only difference is, I think Lyon built the Sydney model so he isn't copying anything.

[st.mart]

A 'Newsflash' for you '66

The players would be FILTHY with this season.....yet another waste.....as would the coaches.....

A season of lost opportunities....


If you are happy with the outcome.....so be it......don't preach to others about how to react to what is an absolute disappointment of a season....

[rodgerfox]

Look for a couple of Rookie promotions. Pencil in Geary for one.
Look for a couple of surpise departures.
Look for a well considered draft and another pile of rookies

So we're rebuilding?

[rodgerfox]

After copying Brisbane in 04/05/06

We didn't copy Brisbane. I spoke to Thomas about this personally.

I'm unsure why people keep saying this.

[rodgerfox]

we need some pace through the midfield, currently we are probably the slowest team in the AFL with the possible exception of Sydney

Geelong and West Coast are slow.

Particularly with Judd down, West Coast are very one paced.

Biggest myth in footy, and a copout.

Geelong aren't overly quick either. They are full of 'one paced' midfielders.

[st.mart]

Nah.....not at all....

Two Power fwds.....the target for every entry.....Focus on big bodies winning contested footy and long direct kicking......focus on hardness, and ruthlessness....

Nothing like Brisbane

[maverick]

we need some pace through the midfield, currently we are probably the slowest team in the AFL with the possible exception of Sydney

Geelong and West Coast are slow.

Particularly with Judd down, West Coast are very one paced.

Biggest myth in footy, and a copout.

Geelong aren't overly quick either. They are full of 'one paced' midfielders.

I agree with this, I honestly think we are not fit, and haven't been since 2005.

[rodgerfox]

Nah.....not at all....

Two Power fwds.....the target for every entry.....Focus on big bodies winning contested footy and long direct kicking......focus on hardness, and ruthlessness....

Nothing like Brisbane

Our recruiting was simple - get the best player. Noone was picked for a 'style' of play.

The coaching staff sat down when they were appointed and reviewed the previous 10 or so premiers and analysed their stats.

The stats they excelled in, we focussed on.

Not their style, their game plan or their personnel - but their KPIs.

Hard tackling, strong defence, winning contests and clearnaces were what we focussed on.

Somewhere (possibly because Brisbane won 3 of those flags) it has been changed to the myth that we copied Brisbane.

That's not what happened.

[saint66au]

A 'Newsflash' for you '66

The players would be FILTHY with this season.....yet another waste.....as would the coaches.....

A season of lost opportunities....


If you are happy with the outcome.....so be it......don't preach to others about how to react to what is an absolute disappointment of a season....

I didnt say I was happy, and I hope the players will be dissapointed with the season. But do you honestly think they will be brooding into their beer as I type this?? NO..they will be out with Fraser and Thommo, having a laugh and sending off their team mates...and good luck to them. Meanwhile on SS, the fuilltime siren is still echoing and the delistings and blame game has started in earnest. The " that was a crap season" threads are leaving the "well done Fraser and Thommo" ones in their wake. One posters attempt to praise Birrss' game is screamed down.

The point I was trying to make about their being 2 sides out there was borne out at my work during the week. So many people said to me that they'd watched the game and thought it one fo the games of the season, certainly the highest standard game St KIlda had been involved in during the year. Not just how great ROo and Lenny were, but Cousins sublime 2nd half and the emerging uber-talent that is Priddis. Yet all Id read here was that the game was rubbish cos we had a winning lead and blown it. No credit for the Eagles superb 2nd half, just scorn on St Kilda for letting a winning lead evaporate.

Of course are gonna be one-sided on a SAints Forum, but just occasionally its good to remember that not every less than stellar performance is due to 1/2 our side being un-tradedable duds. Other teams are allowd to have good players too.

[aussierules0k]

[meher baba]

Interesting debate: good points made on both sides IMO.

I can't see much value in bagging the coaching staff at this point in time.

We will find out next year whether we have appointed another Tim Watson or - as some here seem to think - the next Messiah. I don't think anyone can be sure. There are some good signs, and some worrying signs.

St Mart is right that the most worrying sign ATM is the way we keep letting the opposition back into games. And, despite those who say "our opposition has gotten better this year", that was certainly not the case with some teams. Fact is, Collingwood is almost certain to go out in the EF again this year and yet, in 2006, we thrashed them, and in 2007 they ran over the top of us. In 2006, the Dogs made the 8 and this year they faded away: yet they managed to snatch a draw against us.

We seem to run out of puff in the second half of games. Maybe the conditioning is an issue, but one feels that the coaching style is a big part of it too. After 22 rounds, it looks pretty clear to me that many of our players get worn out by running up and down the field endlessly. In the second half of games, we seem to stop chasing, and our delivery of the ball by foot becomes very wayward.

Moreover, what on earth was Lyon doing leaving Thommo on the bench for most of the second half when some players on the field were looking like they were about to drop? Yes, I know that yesterday wasn't a crucial game, but Lyon has done this before with Thommo and other players. Does Lyon sometimes get overruled by the selectors about a certain player and then retaliates by leaving that player on the bench for most of the game? I hope not?

Lyon also sometimes leaves players out on the ground in crucial matchups who Blind Freddy (eg, me watching on TV) can see need urgently to be rested on the bench, sometimes with devastating results.

I think that what this is all about is not that Lyon has a poor match plan, or is copying the Swans, so much as that our coaching staff as a group are highly inexperienced (compared, say, to all of the teams above us on the table). Lyon does not have a steadying influence in the box of the type that Rendell clearly was for Thomas. I get the feeling sometimes that, when things get tough, Lyon goes into his shell a little bit and becomes a bit stubborn. That's when he misses having a Rendell who could stand up to him and say: "Blake is buggered, put him on the bench", etc.

But, all that said, we have to hope that things are going to come together in 2008: we certainly seem to be in better shape on the injury front than we have been come September in previous years. So I think we should all take a deep breath and enjoy the finals (not to mention the titanic Blues-Demons open misere extravaganza this arvo) and the cricket season.

[kaos theory]

Glad it's over, sick of watching a boring, reactive crap style of footy.....supercoach Ross obviously has a rule.....start dominating the game, close down and try to hold on.....team rule - win by less than three goals...not let any player with natural ability take a risk...

and on Ross......

How many games did we lose control of in the box in 2007.....I can count 5.....comfortable lead, then run over....

We routinely smashed sides in the recent past, why does that no longer happen??????

And it would have been a bigger waste of a yr had GT still been in charge and we finished in the same position or one finals game and out again, or lower down the ladder.

The point is we don't know if we would have been in the same or worse situation under GT at this time.

Anyway that is not the issue, its about how we structure & resource the whole football dept. GT had some good qualities, but in a highly competative environment, running everything through one guy is a stupid strategy.....

Let's face it, we have been going backwards, relative to other teams over the last 2 to 3 yrs..... The way the whole footy dept operated needed to be overhauled.....This is the first yr.....we need to give it another yr at least, and give RL the opportunity to run a pre-season the way he would like, and influence the picks & trades the way he would like.

I'm confident we will be more attacking and hammer sides in the future....

[StSteven]

who will we copy next.....Geelong

We could do a lot worse. You have to admire them. Kept the coach, filled the gaps in roles (Neil Balme), changed their game style and the results have given a top place and a very attractive style to watch.

I envy the Cats supporters, to date they have had a fun year. Next four weeks will tell whether there will be "tears before bed time" but they are well ahead of the other clubs.

Imagine how we would feel if Saints were in their position.

Question has to be asked; "Why aren't we". They are there because of strong Board, CEO and coach. They took the hard decision which most on here called soft, ie did not sack the coach, which was the right decision for them.

[Mr Magic]

Interesting debate:

Moreover, what on earth was Lyon doing leaving Thommo on the bench for most of the second half when some players on the field were looking like they were about to drop? Yes, I know that yesterday wasn't a crucial game, but Lyon has done this before with Thommo and other players. Does Lyon sometimes get overruled by the selectors about a certain player and then retaliates by leaving that player on the bench for most of the game? I hope not?

I'm pretty sure I heard Thommo interviewed straight after the game, say that all his kids were sick and he wasn't feeling too flash either. I think you'll find RL played him even though he has the flu? and Thommo seemed genuinely thankful to RL for it.

[meher baba]

Interesting debate:

Moreover, what on earth was Lyon doing leaving Thommo on the bench for most of the second half when some players on the field were looking like they were about to drop? Yes, I know that yesterday wasn't a crucial game, but Lyon has done this before with Thommo and other players. Does Lyon sometimes get overruled by the selectors about a certain player and then retaliates by leaving that player on the bench for most of the game? I hope not?

I'm pretty sure I heard Thommo interviewed straight after the game, say that all his kids were sick and he wasn't feeling too flash either. I think you'll find RL played him even though he has the flu? and Thommo seemed genuinely thankful to RL for it.

I certainly heard him say his kids were sick, but not the rest. Maybe it's the reason, but the shots of Thommo sitting on the bench in the final quarter showed a man who looked like he was straining every nerve waiting to be told to get on the field.

Anyway, it doesn't explain what happened the previous time Thommo played.

[Teflon]

Nah.....not at all....

Two Power fwds.....the target for every entry.....Focus on big bodies winning contested footy and long direct kicking......focus on hardness, and ruthlessness....

Nothing like Brisbane

I have heard Thomas directly say we had in the past based a lot of our game on Brisbanes succesful model of 1906.

[JeffDunne]

1906

Did Brisbane have a team a 100 years ago?

[Teflon]

1906

Did Brisbane have a team a 100 years ago?

ummm.....it was a joke outlining the merits of following an outdated game plan....

you this quick at your on line Board meetings?..

[JeffDunne]

Seek therapy Teffers before someone gets killed.

You are scary.

[Little Dozer]

All you can do is hope for a better year next year and buy your membership. With a new season comes hope. Having said that it will be hard to see a team like Geelong win the flag...

[saintsRrising]

BTW - if it's good enough to blame lack of fitness on one coach, the same should be for the next....the coach oversees the entire footy dept...

I agree.

But surely Lyon earns a reprieve because he walked into an already planned pre-season that was underway? Over which he had little input?

And a reprieve because the bloke who planned that (Starcevich) drops everything and leaves halfway through?


Or is that being unreasonable, and he should have been able to sort it out along with everything else?

He also walked into a list already largely buggered with injury....

Ball
Hayes
Maguire
Max
X
Raph
Gram carrying something
GTrain with a foot injury (the hand came later)
Hamill



&
Kosi just coming back

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Meh. It was a very dissapointing year. I expect better next year.

That's based on the 2nd half. If the 2nd half of the season had been the first half, I would have been confident that the Saints were travelling okay with plenty of room for improvement. Fundamental improvement, running out games, hitting targets, accuracy shooting for goal. I expect these improvements in all these areas for '08, and if the improvement in these areas don't lend themselves to results, then I might start to look for someone to blame.

I still wish we were playing this week.