Whats a pass mark now?

[saint patrick]

For me given the injuries in the first half of the year ,a new coach and a new game plan which always takes at least 12 to 18 months to perfect...sneaking into the finals for a fourth consecutive year and upseting either the Pies or the Roos would be a big tick for Ross and the boys....and plenty of reason for optimism next year.

And if we win the first final look out

Trouble is fate[and Collingwood and the Crows] will play their part....

[st_Trav_ofWA]

its been a long time since we have made 4 consecutive finals series so if we do this year ill be very happy with the years outcome

[rodgerfox]

Trouble is fate[and Collingwood and the Crows] will play their part....

Trouble is we still have missing players.

If Max, Harves and Bakes were all available and fit for week 1 of the finals - I'd be quite confident of being a real threat.

As for a 'pass' - I'd say winning a final is a pass. Losing a final is a fail. Not making the 8 is poor.

[Dan Warna]

does it matter?

IMO Lyon is the coach of st kilda.

I admit I was dissapointed in his appointment, and dissapointed in what I saw in the first few months.

subsequently I have moved as have most others.

like him, hate him or disregard him, he is the coach of st kilda.

ultimately we ride his ability to extract the best from this team.

no doubt some will use this thread to say GT could have done better, which is futile, and others will say GT wouldn't have achieved as much which is equally futile.

others again will use this thread to petty point score against other posters which is equally futile.

pass mark? there isn't one, how can you judge it a pass or failure when regardless he will be coaching next year.

TBH if Lethal matthews said he wanted to coach st kilda any year from 2003 onwards, I'd have ditched GT in a flash, and I'd ditch RL in a flash too.

outside that nothing else we can do except hope the board made the right decision.

that said, I think we have a top 4 list, we are maybe 3 to 4 games from the top 4 and injuries, and other reasons, be it critique of the coaching, players response to the coaching, lack of personal drive whatever, we have blown games we should have won.

I think its a mix of reasons and the coach should be accountable in part for the decisions he has made in the manner in which the team plays, is drilled etc.

[stinger]

good post dan....

[st_Trav_ofWA]

well put dan
RL is the present and the imeadiate future of this club theres no point looking backwards to move forward

[saintsRrising]

IMO Lyon is the coach of st kilda.
....

like him, hate him or disregard him, he is the coach of st kilda.
...
ultimately we ride his ability to extract the best from this team.

Wel I have my ticket to ride...and will again next year too

[Dan Warna]

IMO Lyon is the coach of st kilda.
....

like him, hate him or disregard him, he is the coach of st kilda.
...
ultimately we ride his ability to extract the best from this team.

Wel I have my ticket to ride...and will again next year too

well I've made my comments.

I think he hasn't got the best out of what we have available and while he can take credit in part for difficult wins against WCE and Adelaide, he must bear criticism for games we should have one.

there has been enough critique on other threads on what he did right and what he did wrong so I'll refrain from recycling old arguements again.

I hated timmid watson, damien monkhorst, tony francis and tony delany but I bought my memberships regardless.

I approach 08 with the same sence of fatalism that st kilda fans have had from time immemorial.

Is he the best thing for st kilda? who knows, that will take a bit more time, Has he achieved the best outcome for hte st kilda football club in 07? IMO no, I dont think he was ready, I dont think he was adaptable enough, and I dont think he was responsive enough at the start of the season. I think that cost us a couple of games.

Is he better now than he was at the start of the season? yes. Will he be better next season? who can tell besides time.

should we have got a different coach? speculative claptrap, can't be changed.

would I lobby for Leigh matthews? absoforkinglutely if he was available.

of the sacked coaches any worth their salt for turfing RL? atm NO.

[Oh When the Saints]

Great question saint patrick ...

Terrific post too Dan Warna, although I don't agree with parts of it.


No-one in the world could have forseen the injury run St Kilda had between about Round 7 and Round 11.

To have 24-25 players to select from for three weeks is a situation hardly any AFL clubs find themselves in ever.


Whilst I was disappointed with the way we performed, it is understandable that we lost 4 games.
(Not even Leigh Matthews could have done anything DW)


I thought we started the season well ... 4-3 is certainly the equal of our starts in 05/06, especially considering we were missing Riewoldt (our best player) for 3 of those games.

If you take out those 4 losses, then St Kilda are 11-6 from 17 matches.


Unfortunately the 4 losses count.


What is more pleasing for me is that in every game since the break (i.e. the last 10 matches) we have been within 1 goal of the opposition in the last quarter.

In other words, we have been in a position to win 10 in a row ... we've won 7 if you include the draw ... that's probably not such a bad effort.


I actually feel our form since Round 12 has been better than our form at any stage in 2006, and probably similar to our form in 2005.

It's just that the early/middle part of the season cost us badly.


So how do you rate the year?

IMO it hasn't been a success unless we make the finals.

No year can be called successful if you finish in the bottom half of the 8.


Having said that, there are plenty of positive signs for next season - we will have a more experienced coach who knows his playing group, hopefully a few more youngsters at the club, another year of development into our key players and better injury management practices.

If we can carry our 7-3 form of the second half of 2007 into 2008, then this season might not have been such a bad one ....


Really, how you judge 2007 depends a lot on how 2008 turns out ... if we finish top four next year, this season could be the "year we had to have".

If we miss the 8 next year, then this could be the year that started the decline ...


I'm certainly not as displeased with the season has I was at the break, when we were 4-7 and didn't even look like competing against the top sides.


Anyway, let's wait and see ... if we make the finals, I have a feeling we might still find ourselves talking about St Kilda's on-field performance in 2-3 weeks time ...

[Dan Warna]

I think our draw will be or should be similar in 08 (07 was a good draw compared to 03 to 06)

if we can get for farking once a good line with injuries and a good preseason there is nothing to prevent a good show of what we can do.

I think our list atm is a premiership list.

unless its a marquee player or a competitve ruckman, I dont want to see any more GOP trading.

we dont need another player of the quality of McGough, Birss, gardiner or clarke.

about the only GOP i think we may need is a ruckman, depending on what we are going to do with kosi (permanent FF? CHB? etc)

there is some talk that some players may wish to leave st kilda, if so I hope we get an equivalent value player for them, or an appropriate draft pick, given it takes 3 to 4 years to develop a player.

aside from that Goddard and ball should be new recruits next season with a solid pre season given goddard is running atm.

Gardiner hasn't played effectively for a number of seasons so what value he is i dont know.

Hamill is possibly in the same position as gardiner.

maguire, V2 and Max if they can get their preseasons right, will be a fabulous addition in 08 as well.

[Teflon]

Great post OWTS.

Finals would be a pass not making it a fail - wining a final would see us eclipse last years effort and for a new coach with the injuries weve had and a new game plan thats a massive tick for Lyon IF Collingwood do their bit....

On top of the optomism from OWTS - which I share - I also have *touch wood*.....a confident belief Lyon will do something bout our pathetic management of soft tissue injuries from past 3 yrs - IMO we are already starting to see some good signs with Kosi getting through so many....Harvey recovering quickly...and the side remaining largely stable for the last half of the season. I believe with a FULL pre season this will only be better in 08and guys like Max will benefit enormously from this.

07....just may be our "Geelong" year...time will tell but I have faith in Ross and the players could not speak higher of him.

[Armoooo]

2009 is the year of the saints, this year making the finals and being productive in trade and draft week is our only realistic target

In 2009 these players will be in their prime:
Gram
Xavier
Watts
L.Fisher
Montagna
Riewoldt
Ball
R.Clarke
Fiora
Goddard
Ferguson
Birss
Kosi
Brooks
S.Fisher
Dal
Maguire
Gwilt

And hopefully we can have Gilbert, Armitage, Allen and Howard plus a couple picks from this years draft progressing nicely

We will also have the experience of Baker, Hayes and possibley Blake and Max.

If we could snap up another forward like Robertson or Pettifer we would be a serious force to be reckoned with add that with three years experience under Lyon and we would have to go close...

[Oh When the Saints]

Looking at that list Armoooo, I reckon we need to add 4-5 quality players by the 2009 period.

So that's 2-3 in this year's draft, plus one of the rookies coming along ....

[Armoooo]

Looking at that list Armoooo, I reckon we need to add 4-5 quality players by the 2009 period.

So that's 2-3 in this year's draft, plus one of the rookies coming along ....

I believe Attard will be a quality player for us by then
so hopefully we could also get a player like Robbo or Pettifer and hope that Van Rheenan and the rest of the rookies can step up.

[Teflon]

Attard hopefully will be quality.....but for me the bigger question lies in getting the right type of quality...

We need line breaking/ball carrying midfielders who can jag a goal, an additional key back, a solid option on HFF who also can lay tackle/has desperation....and a ruck to stand up.

[saintsRrising]

IMO Lyon is the coach of st kilda.
....

like him, hate him or disregard him, he is the coach of st kilda.
...
ultimately we ride his ability to extract the best from this team.

Wel I have my ticket to ride...and will again next year too

well I've made my comments.

.

hi Dan...I was actually basically agreeing with your first post....my reply was not a dig. Cheers.

[Dan Warna]

hi Dan...I was actually basically agreeing with your first post....my reply was not a dig. Cheers.

I didnt take it as such, I was basically saying I'll be saddling up regardless

I do worry however that many will not.

and members = revenue, higher membership attracts higher sponsorship.

the decline in the timmid years saw a commensurate drop in membership and sponsorship.

from a purely practical financial point of view, squeeking into the finals is an imperative.

[Otiman]

If we don't make the 8...
Pass: Beat Richmond (what else can we do)
Fail: Lose/Draw Richmond

If collingwood win

Pass: Get to second round
Fail: Lose first up in the finals