Hits Outs and Ruckmen
Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 12674
- Joined: Thu 04 Jul 2019 8:53pm
- Has thanked: 5 times
- Been thanked: 2707 times
Hits Outs and Ruckmen
Completely Overrated
Grundy AA Ruck vs Fort VFL ruckman
Hit Outs at HT
14-9 to Grundy
Clearances
17-13 Brisbane
Centre Clearances
10-6 Brisbane
Grundy AA Ruck vs Fort VFL ruckman
Hit Outs at HT
14-9 to Grundy
Clearances
17-13 Brisbane
Centre Clearances
10-6 Brisbane
- Dave McNamara
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 5852
- Joined: Wed 21 Sep 2011 2:44pm
- Location: Slotting another one from 94.5m out. Opposition flood? Bring it on...! Keep the faith Saintas!
- Has thanked: 99 times
- Been thanked: 110 times
Re: Hits Outs and Ruckmen
Couldn't agree more B.M!
And in so many ruck contests, I reckon one would need the super sl-mo to work out who even got the tap.
And in so many ruck contests, I reckon one would need the super sl-mo to work out who even got the tap.
It's Dave, man. Will you open up? I got the stuff with me! -------Who?
Dave, man. Open up ------------------------------------------ -----Dave???
Yeah, Dave. ---------------------------------------------------------Dave's not here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOiG1hAr ... detailpage
Dave, man. Open up ------------------------------------------ -----Dave???
Yeah, Dave. ---------------------------------------------------------Dave's not here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOiG1hAr ... detailpage
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 12674
- Joined: Thu 04 Jul 2019 8:53pm
- Has thanked: 5 times
- Been thanked: 2707 times
Re: Hits Outs and Ruckmen
It’s why recruiting big lumbering Ruckmen like Trent Knobel, Billy Longer and the like is futile
They MUST be able to play.
They MUST be able to play.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 12082
- Joined: Sun 11 Sep 2011 2:26pm
- Has thanked: 3698 times
- Been thanked: 2573 times
Re: Hits Outs and Ruckmen
Grundy was awesome today but not enough Sydney team mates switched on to make it a contest.
Neale, McCluggage, Ashcroft, and Jarrod Berry were on from the first bounce.
They were the top 4 possession getters in the first quarter. All these guys hunted the ball and probably only Dunkley was needed to be the one focused on defence and restricting his opponent.
It takes a lot of very very good planning against opposition sides during the year, but I reckon the Grand Final gets back to the basics of our game. Win first possession, share the footy, and execute well into forward 50.
Fagan simplified things for his players and had them mentally prepared to play at their best. Horse failed to do that
Neale, McCluggage, Ashcroft, and Jarrod Berry were on from the first bounce.
They were the top 4 possession getters in the first quarter. All these guys hunted the ball and probably only Dunkley was needed to be the one focused on defence and restricting his opponent.
It takes a lot of very very good planning against opposition sides during the year, but I reckon the Grand Final gets back to the basics of our game. Win first possession, share the footy, and execute well into forward 50.
Fagan simplified things for his players and had them mentally prepared to play at their best. Horse failed to do that
- SaintPav
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 19137
- Joined: Wed 16 Jun 2010 9:24pm
- Location: Alma Road
- Has thanked: 1606 times
- Been thanked: 2026 times
Re: Hits Outs and Ruckmen
Shallow analysis.
Need to deep dive into the data a bit more (two levels) me thinks and needs to be combined with some video analysis before making firm conclusions.
Need to deep dive into the data a bit more (two levels) me thinks and needs to be combined with some video analysis before making firm conclusions.
Holder of unacceptable views and other thought crimes.
- Otiman
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 8734
- Joined: Thu 28 Jul 2005 11:09pm
- Location: Elsewhere
- Has thanked: 197 times
- Been thanked: 651 times
Re: Hits Outs and Ruckmen
So if the hitouts don't matter, you want a ruckman that can influence around the ground. Is that the point you were trying to make?
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 12082
- Joined: Sun 11 Sep 2011 2:26pm
- Has thanked: 3698 times
- Been thanked: 2573 times
Re: Hits Outs and Ruckmen
Contested possessions were pretty even in the first quarter. Inside 50's were pretty even in the 1st quarter. Scores were tight
Uncontested possessions were dominated by Brisbane as were their inside 50's in the 2nd quarter . They also had more contested possessions.They were tough. Their tackle numbers were higher than Sydney in 2nd quarter.
207 disposals to Brisbane in the 1st half versus only 142 to Sydney. That's a huge difference
They controlled the footy but they were also bold. They kicked a big score up until half time... Game over
Last edited by Scollop on Sat 28 Sep 2024 9:08pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 12674
- Joined: Thu 04 Jul 2019 8:53pm
- Has thanked: 5 times
- Been thanked: 2707 times
Re: Hits Outs and Ruckmen
I think it’s the most overrated stat in footy
Brodie Grundy dominated hit outs today
Brisbane won by 60 and won clearance and centre clearance
So yeah, I want a ruckman who can influence around the ground
Clearances are 90% up to the Mids
Brodie Grundy dominated hit outs today
Brisbane won by 60 and won clearance and centre clearance
So yeah, I want a ruckman who can influence around the ground
Clearances are 90% up to the Mids
- SaintPav
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 19137
- Joined: Wed 16 Jun 2010 9:24pm
- Location: Alma Road
- Has thanked: 1606 times
- Been thanked: 2026 times
Re: Hits Outs and Ruckmen
Off Topic
Sure, but I was referring to ruckman generally.Scollop wrote: ↑Sat 28 Sep 2024 9:02pmContested possessions were pretty even in the first quarter. Inside 50's were pretty even in the 1st quarter. Scores were tight
Uncontested possessions were dominated by Brisbane as were their inside 50's in the 2nd quarter . They also had more contested possessions.They were tough. Their tackle numbers were higher than Sydney in 2nd quarter.
207 disposals to Brisbane in the 1st half versus only 142 to Sydney. That's a huge difference
They controlled the footy but they were also bold. They kicked a big score up until half time... Game over
I will give you an example of the value of ruckman:
Jolly and Ball in the 2004 Preliminary Final, particularly in the final quarter.
Holder of unacceptable views and other thought crimes.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 12674
- Joined: Thu 04 Jul 2019 8:53pm
- Has thanked: 5 times
- Been thanked: 2707 times
Re: Hits Outs and Ruckmen
2004
Sydney weren’t even in the Preliminary Final
We played Port
Geel played Bris
We smashed Sydney in the Semi Final
Sydney weren’t even in the Preliminary Final
We played Port
Geel played Bris
We smashed Sydney in the Semi Final
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 12674
- Joined: Thu 04 Jul 2019 8:53pm
- Has thanked: 5 times
- Been thanked: 2707 times
Re: Hits Outs and Ruckmen
2005
We were beaten by Sydney after being in front at 3q time
We stopped as injury took its toll
Ironically we won the Hit Outs 42-37
Schneider turned it on and did the damage
We were beaten by Sydney after being in front at 3q time
We stopped as injury took its toll
Ironically we won the Hit Outs 42-37
Schneider turned it on and did the damage
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 12674
- Joined: Thu 04 Jul 2019 8:53pm
- Has thanked: 5 times
- Been thanked: 2707 times
Re: Hits Outs and Ruckmen
Best Players
StK: Dal Santo, Harvey, Hudghton, Jones
Gehrig, Baker, Montagna
Syd: O'Keefe, Hall, C. Bolton, J. Bolton,
Schneider, Kennelly, Ablett, Crouch,
StK: Dal Santo, Harvey, Hudghton, Jones
Gehrig, Baker, Montagna
Syd: O'Keefe, Hall, C. Bolton, J. Bolton,
Schneider, Kennelly, Ablett, Crouch,
- SaintPav
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 19137
- Joined: Wed 16 Jun 2010 9:24pm
- Location: Alma Road
- Has thanked: 1606 times
- Been thanked: 2026 times
Re: Hits Outs and Ruckmen
I meant 2005.
We obviously didn’t watch the same game.
Watch it again. It’s on YouTube
Holder of unacceptable views and other thought crimes.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 12674
- Joined: Thu 04 Jul 2019 8:53pm
- Has thanked: 5 times
- Been thanked: 2707 times
Re: Hits Outs and Ruckmen
Jason Ball
14 hit outs 7 possessions
Darren Jolly
17 hit outs 9 possessions
Cain Ackland
22 hit outs 6 possessions
Jason Blake
14 hit outs 10 possessions
Lenny 3 hit outs, Roo 1 hit out
We won hit outs 42-37
We won clearances 36-35
No ruckman from either team named in the best players as I posted above
14 hit outs 7 possessions
Darren Jolly
17 hit outs 9 possessions
Cain Ackland
22 hit outs 6 possessions
Jason Blake
14 hit outs 10 possessions
Lenny 3 hit outs, Roo 1 hit out
We won hit outs 42-37
We won clearances 36-35
No ruckman from either team named in the best players as I posted above
- SaintPav
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 19137
- Joined: Wed 16 Jun 2010 9:24pm
- Location: Alma Road
- Has thanked: 1606 times
- Been thanked: 2026 times
Re: Hits Outs and Ruckmen
I prefer granular data.
Holder of unacceptable views and other thought crimes.
- D.B.Cooper
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 2189
- Joined: Sun 24 Oct 2021 5:50pm
- Has thanked: 787 times
- Been thanked: 742 times
Re: Hits Outs and Ruckmen
Centre bounce stats are relevant, but not around the ground hit outs in the “3rd man up” era.B.M wrote: ↑Sat 28 Sep 2024 10:55pm Jason Ball
14 hit outs 7 possessions
Darren Jolly
17 hit outs 9 possessions
Cain Ackland
22 hit outs 6 possessions
Jason Blake
14 hit outs 10 possessions
Lenny 3 hit outs, Roo 1 hit out
We won hit outs 42-37
We won clearances 36-35
No ruckman from either team named in the best players as I posted above
There's only one rule in the jungle! When the LYON's hungry, he eats!
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 10472
- Joined: Fri 16 Feb 2007 3:24pm
- Location: WARBURTON
- Has thanked: 148 times
- Been thanked: 1334 times
Re: Hits Outs and Ruckmen
There’s clearances and then there’s clearances.
Stats don’t tell the whole story.
Stats don’t tell the whole story.
NO IFS OR BUTS HARVS IS KING OF THE AFL
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 12674
- Joined: Thu 04 Jul 2019 8:53pm
- Has thanked: 5 times
- Been thanked: 2707 times
Re: Hits Outs and Ruckmen
Especially if they don’t tell the story you want them to huh
Stats are only important if they support ones argument
Stats are only important if they support ones argument
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 10472
- Joined: Fri 16 Feb 2007 3:24pm
- Location: WARBURTON
- Has thanked: 148 times
- Been thanked: 1334 times
Re: Hits Outs and Ruckmen
Don’t rely on stats.
Never have stats don’t tell the whole story.
NO IFS OR BUTS HARVS IS KING OF THE AFL
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 12674
- Joined: Thu 04 Jul 2019 8:53pm
- Has thanked: 5 times
- Been thanked: 2707 times
Re: Hits Outs and Ruckmen
Coaches do - Ross does
Which stats are relevant is the key
Hit out stats are not at all relevant nor do the correlate with success. Otherwise Freo wouldn’t have lost when Sandilands was there.
Best Ruckman I’ve ever seen
Dean Cox - as good as another midfielder
Which stats are relevant is the key
Hit out stats are not at all relevant nor do the correlate with success. Otherwise Freo wouldn’t have lost when Sandilands was there.
Best Ruckman I’ve ever seen
Dean Cox - as good as another midfielder
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 10472
- Joined: Fri 16 Feb 2007 3:24pm
- Location: WARBURTON
- Has thanked: 148 times
- Been thanked: 1334 times
Re: Hits Outs and Ruckmen
As I posted there’s clearances then there’s clearances.
NO IFS OR BUTS HARVS IS KING OF THE AFL
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 12674
- Joined: Thu 04 Jul 2019 8:53pm
- Has thanked: 5 times
- Been thanked: 2707 times
Re: Hits Outs and Ruckmen
What % of clearances are a clean direct take away as a result of a Hit Out?
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 10472
- Joined: Fri 16 Feb 2007 3:24pm
- Location: WARBURTON
- Has thanked: 148 times
- Been thanked: 1334 times
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 12674
- Joined: Thu 04 Jul 2019 8:53pm
- Has thanked: 5 times
- Been thanked: 2707 times
Re: Hits Outs and Ruckmen
At a guess and going by HO to advantage stats I’d say 10-15%
So if a ruckman has 30 HOs - 3->4 ende up as clean takeaways from their tap.
Gawn might be a bit higher? Maybe the big fella from GC Suns?
But it’s not significant
Scores from turnover dwarfs scores from stoppage as a source. At a stoppage defences are set. In a turn over opposition is running forward, and are not set behind the ball and can be scored against easier.
So if a ruckman has 30 HOs - 3->4 ende up as clean takeaways from their tap.
Gawn might be a bit higher? Maybe the big fella from GC Suns?
But it’s not significant
Scores from turnover dwarfs scores from stoppage as a source. At a stoppage defences are set. In a turn over opposition is running forward, and are not set behind the ball and can be scored against easier.
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 1070
- Joined: Mon 20 Jan 2020 7:38am
- Has thanked: 64 times
- Been thanked: 318 times
Re: Hits Outs and Ruckmen
B.M wrote: ↑Mon 30 Sep 2024 1:39am At a guess and going by HO to advantage stats I’d say 10-15%
So if a ruckman has 30 HOs - 3->4 ende up as clean takeaways from their tap.
Gawn might be a bit higher? Maybe the big fella from GC Suns?
But it’s not significant
Scores from turnover dwarfs scores from stoppage as a source. At a stoppage defences are set. In a turn over opposition is running forward, and are not set behind the ball and can be scored against easier.
There is a reason ruckman aren't the best paid players in teams.
That said even using your stats. 10-15% of the time having a clear takeaway is worth plenty. Teams build their games around field position which a dominant ruckman definitely helps.
The scores from turnover are often generated from that field position dominance.
Disclaimer: posts are my views and shouldn't be taken as fact, even if I am in fact right.