Junction Oval in funding crisis.

[happy feet]

I was only a teenager at the time, but I have a recollection of many players not being paid and the club owed them some serious $$. I think Barry Breen was one of them and these players either wrote off the debt or accepted a minuscule sum as full payment.

Anyone remember this?

[saynta]

I was only a teenager at the time, but I have a recollection of many players not being paid and the club owed them some serious $$. I think Barry Breen was one of them and these players either wrote off the debt or accepted a minuscule sum as full payment.

Anyone remember this?

Yep, and Barks gave them a car he had won to raffle. That prick Fox was behind paying the players about 5 cents in the dollar.

[shanegrambeau]

That is exactly the same article you posted in the OP, it’s from may 2020. The one I posted is from September this year and gives more up to date info about their finances. Again, if crowds don’t matter due to tv rights, why would the AFL spend money on a ground (as they make the fixturing decisions) when they have a ground at the docklands that was built for tv?

I suspect that question won’t be answered, as I have asked it many times in this and similar threads. You have your hopeful opinion on why this can happen which I don’t agree with, so I won’t ask again. I hope I am wrong and magically money, logistics and AFL policy don’t matter and you get your wish. I do say again though, getting a small crowd in ballarat is a very different proposition to a small crowd in Melbourne. We are in big trouble if we have a crowd of 7k in Melbourne.

Amusinggame

I will attempt to address that/these things...
They will not change the fundamental issue however...
St Kilda needs to be in St Kilda....and if that is just two games a year..so be it.

For the sake of a civil argument - and an honest one.

I read the Cricket Vic annual report...it is a glistening propaganda piece..as they mostly are..
Nio doubt they are sting from the scathing piece in 2020 by ESPN that shows them in trouble and especially their JO venture.
Now lets not forget that in 2014, CV were ready to go all the way with the AFL and have St Kidla there...
They had 'no trouble' co-hosting...
Suddenly, they are cricket exclusive (and it is costing them big time)
No doubt they have some big guns though...cricket is afterall..the 'establishment' sport number one...and footy is still for bogans to keep off the streets.

(Calm down all annoyed folks..)

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/sai ... 09xvs.html
https://www.cricket.com.au/news/junctio ... 2014-08-30
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/cr ... zqt17.html

[amusingname]

That is exactly the same article you posted in the OP, it’s from may 2020. The one I posted is from September this year and gives more up to date info about their finances. Again, if crowds don’t matter due to tv rights, why would the AFL spend money on a ground (as they make the fixturing decisions) when they have a ground at the docklands that was built for tv?

I suspect that question won’t be answered, as I have asked it many times in this and similar threads. You have your hopeful opinion on why this can happen which I don’t agree with, so I won’t ask again. I hope I am wrong and magically money, logistics and AFL policy don’t matter and you get your wish. I do say again though, getting a small crowd in ballarat is a very different proposition to a small crowd in Melbourne. We are in big trouble if we have a crowd of 7k in Melbourne.

Amusinggame

I will attempt to address that/these things...
They will not change the fundamental issue however...
St Kilda needs to be in St Kilda....and if that is just two games a year..so be it.

For the sake of a civil argument - and an honest one.

I read the Cricket Vic annual report...it is a glistening propaganda piece..as they mostly are..
Nio doubt they are sting from the scathing piece in 2020 by ESPN that shows them in trouble and especially their JO venture.
Now lets not forget that in 2014, CV were ready to go all the way with the AFL and have St Kidla there...
They had 'no trouble' co-hosting...
Suddenly, they are cricket exclusive (and it is costing them big time)
No doubt they have some big guns though...cricket is afterall..the 'establishment' sport number one...and footy is still for bogans to keep off the streets.

(Calm down all annoyed folks..)

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/sai ... 09xvs.html
https://www.cricket.com.au/news/junctio ... 2014-08-30
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/cr ... zqt17.html

In 2014 when it was proposed that we move to the junction it was always in a training and base capacity, using it for an actual AFL regular season fixture has never been considered a possibility. Why? Because the AFL have expressly stated they have no need for a 3rd Melbourne venue! This talk of playing a home game anywhere but marvel or the MCG in Melbourne is not realistic at this time and not likely for a long time, there simply isn’t an appetite from the controlling body. All the talk of it being feasible because of how iconic the suburb of st Kilda and how many tourists go there doesn’t matter if the organisation who fixtures the games doesn’t want to schedule something there!

[shanegrambeau]

That is exactly the same article you posted in the OP, it’s from may 2020. The one I posted is from September this year and gives more up to date info about their finances. Again, if crowds don’t matter due to tv rights, why would the AFL spend money on a ground (as they make the fixturing decisions) when they have a ground at the docklands that was built for tv?

I suspect that question won’t be answered, as I have asked it many times in this and similar threads. You have your hopeful opinion on why this can happen which I don’t agree with, so I won’t ask again. I hope I am wrong and magically money, logistics and AFL policy don’t matter and you get your wish. I do say again though, getting a small crowd in ballarat is a very different proposition to a small crowd in Melbourne. We are in big trouble if we have a crowd of 7k in Melbourne.

Amusinggame

I will attempt to address that/these things...
They will not change the fundamental issue however...
St Kilda needs to be in St Kilda....and if that is just two games a year..so be it.

For the sake of a civil argument - and an honest one.

I read the Cricket Vic annual report...it is a glistening propaganda piece..as they mostly are..
Nio doubt they are sting from the scathing piece in 2020 by ESPN that shows them in trouble and especially their JO venture.
Now lets not forget that in 2014, CV were ready to go all the way with the AFL and have St Kidla there...
They had 'no trouble' co-hosting...
Suddenly, they are cricket exclusive (and it is costing them big time)
No doubt they have some big guns though...cricket is afterall..the 'establishment' sport number one...and footy is still for bogans to keep off the streets.

(Calm down all annoyed folks..)

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/sai ... 09xvs.html
https://www.cricket.com.au/news/junctio ... 2014-08-30
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/cr ... zqt17.html

In 2014 when it was proposed that we move to the junction it was always in a training and base capacity, using it for an actual AFL regular season fixture has never been considered a possibility. Why? Because the AFL have expressly stated they have no need for a 3rd Melbourne venue! This talk of playing a home game anywhere but marvel or the MCG in Melbourne is not realistic at this time and not likely for a long time, there simply isn’t an appetite from the controlling body. All the talk of it being feasible because of how iconic the suburb of st Kilda and how many tourists go there doesn’t matter if the organisation who fixtures the games doesn’t want to schedule something there!

Ok..let's look at the points one by one...
Yes. training base, not fixture..in 2014..Agree

I don't see it being a bad thing that it is only training there. It must be something..Once, the tide turned to Moorabbin again, I supposed that the best thing might be one gane a year...St Kilda vs Brisbane ..Brisbane being the Lions etc.,

AFL will say thuis and that a various times and they will change their minds too. Will Marvell even survive? They built VFL PArk chiefly to have their own ground, and they wanted it in a location that followed geographic/demographics trends. They gave it all up and sold it.
AFL have of course played games for premiership points in New Zealand, China, Ballarrat, Canberra, Cairns, Hobart, Launceston etc., I don't see their word as set in stone..
Whether it is feasible is not a matter of something already determined. In fact the deterministic rationale of some of the arguments used here to pooh-pooh JO are really limited but none the less can be used as political fodder - hence the need to keep pressing the truth! (examples, JO is a 'cricket ground', its a dump, I don't like the JO, I don't care, small crowds, etc.)

Anyway, the AFL are pouring squillions of dollars into trying top establish footy on the Gold Coast while TAssie still has no teams...and I do believe there will be a point where a return to the roots movement will gather momentum. But that is subjective of course, on my part.

The AFL doesn't always get it's way either...

On to Cricket Victoria
It seems to me, they are so weak and pathetic, they were bullied off the MCG. They were even bullied out of Victoria! All because of big football interests at the MCG. Read Collingwood and Eddie McGuire when he was still a high flyer pre-King Kong etc.
They want some dignity back...and plaudits for their efforts at JO. I think Shane Warne may have had some clout there too, but I really don't now.
I am sticking with my claim...St Kilda needs a presence in St Kilda...and the JO is the best spot for it...
If St Kilda's traders, festivals and arts organizations, the council, the State Gov get behind it...somehow, we might be able to do something..a women's game perhaps.

I think St Kilda needs to do this to survive long term. Unless a move to Tassie has already secretly condemmed it...and even then, even if we did re-locate to Tassie, a game at the JO would be good.

For the time being, being back at Moorabbin is a sideways step, but hellava lot better than the Seaford set-up.

[Wayne42]

The Seaford training set up was a huge upgrade on the dump that was Moorabbin at that time.

The Moorabbin facility was a huge embarrassment for an AFL club but well done to the club for finding a way to rejuvenate the Moorabbin training complex.

A place where they are still doing upgrades. Amazing how they keep getting vast sums of money to keep on improving the place.

What has happened with the Seaford facility, does anyone use it ?

[shanegrambeau]

The Seaford training set up was a huge upgrade on the dump that was Moorabbin at that time.

The Moorabbin facility was a huge embarrassment for an AFL club but well done to the club for finding a way to rejuvenate the Moorabbin training complex.

A place where they are still doing upgrades. Amazing how they keep getting vast sums of money to keep on improving the place.

What has happened with the Seaford facility, does anyone use it ?

Frankston City Council (or what ever it is called down there) tipped 20 mil into it too....
Easy come, easy go...

[Trev from the Bush]

C'mon Shane. Take your pills and off to bed.

[shanegrambeau]

C'mon Shane. Take your pills and off to bed.

I sold 'em.

Outside Seaford station.

The buyers looked pretty sketchy, to be honest.

Asked him where takes them.

said he sells 'em, guess where...?

....up the bush!

[The Fireman]

C'mon Shane. Take your pills and off to bed.

I sold 'em.

Outside Seaford station.

The buyers looked pretty sketchy, to be honest.

Asked him where takes them.

said he sells 'em, guess where...?

....up the bush!

[Trev from the Bush]

Case closed Shane. Who would honestly respect the opinion of a self-confessed drug dealer?

[The Fireman]

The JO will be the GO

[Devilhead]

Cmon Firey cough it up ...... thats twice now

[The Fireman]

Cmon Firey cough it up ...... thats twice now

slightly different

[Dave McNamara]

The Hillbillies have missed the finals only twice under Chris Kray,

They are currently an ageing 6-12 on the ladder team.

Yet, they finished top 4. (Would have been 2nd, if The Shockers hadn't lived up to their moniker.)

And, they're now in a Prelimary Final.

So what is their secret...?

No doubt, lots of factors. But there's one, that if it was taken away, would derail their record.

Their homeground advantage.
(We'd very arguably have won that Round 1 game if it was at Dockedlands or the MCG.)



And not forgetting all the grounds the AFL has started playing matches at, that hold (often way) less than 25,000 people. (Norwood's Postage Stamp Park Oval... anyone...?)




It's not too late Sainters...

[Yorkeys]

their secret?
Stewart, Cameron and Dangerfield playing well.
There, now the cat is out of the bag. So to speak.
Scott can still be coach of the year even with his secret exposed.
Of course if Sooky Sam doesn't get it there will be tears.

[Killa]

In regard Lindsay Fox, the comment excludes that there was a Secured Creditor being a major bank

That Secured Creditor also took a significant “haircut” courtesy of Lindsay and his powers of persuasion

Those powers resulted in a pay out to the Unsecured Creditors (from nothing) AND the Club surviving so by extension, still playing today

They were the times of the Social Club as one entity and the Football Club were the poor relative holding out for any distributions

A few other Clubs ran to financial stress post that time starting with the “powerhouse” Clubs of Collingwood and Richmond

As I understand, Junction Oval is the administrative and training facility for Cricket Victoria and also hosts some Shield games

So hardly self sustaining financially due to the lack of a revenue stream of any substance

Mind you the community usage of the MCG is what it is so sparsely used given its location and improvements

Ditto Docklands and elsewhere

They are reliant on government supports, government also a supporter of community social activities including the Arts etc etc

Governments are not a business looking to invest into profit cells - they have a wider obligation to community and to the future of community

[Dave McNamara]

... so in other words Killa, what you're saying is that... the JO needs us.

[saynta]

... so in other words Killa, what you're saying is that... the JO needs us.

No. The JO needs to go. Bulldoze the effing dump. I have only bad memories of that place.

[Dave McNamara]

... so in other words Killa, what you're saying is that... the JO needs us.

No. The JO needs to go. Bulldoze the effing dump. I have only bad memories of that place.

Fair enough. But, those bad memories could be (at the worst, 'somewhat' ) wiped if the JO gave us the sponsors, 'relevance' and home ground advantage, to become regular September contenders, like Geelong.

[SaintWiki]

The paint is still wet from the Gov't helping us with the Moorabbin upgrade., so I can't see them funding these pipe dreams. I reckon Moorabbin is perfect home and great for training, pre-season matches and AFLW, and we have a key to the Docklands all-weather stadium. The club is full-on focussed on a flag, as they should.

[Dave McNamara]

The govt' $$$ poured into Linton Street shouldn't affect any move our club might one day make SW.

As per with our previous ground at Outer Seaford (aka 'Halfway to Canberra' Oval ), the facilities funded at Moorabbin can be used by the community, and by community teams/groups. And no reason (at least that I'm aware of) why we couldn't keep a finger in the Danny Frawley Centre pie, even if we weren't at Moorabbin.

What we really really need is to have a boutique home ground for games against selected low-drawing teams.

At the very least, as an interim measure, we should be erecting temporary fencing around Linton Street. And crowd capacity isn't an issue. Here's a list of the venues that Gestapo HQ currently sanctions playing matches for premiership points at... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_A ... ue_grounds

And I note that the list is incomplete. How could they forget the Norwood Postage Stamp Oval, 10,000 capacity??? Or state of the art Summit Sports Park in Mount Barker, capacity 5000??? (With all of 270 of those punters under cover too.)


But most importantly. We really must get back to the JO! If for no other reason, than that we owe it to our long suffering saynta. He says that he doesn't want to go to his grave without seeing another Saintas' flag. And it would be an almost equally great shame if he was to also, take those bad memories of the JO to his grave.


So come on Saintas! Do it for saynta! And do it for Eastern, for Playon, for gaz! (Who have I missed?) And do it for all of us!

[amusingname]

The govt' $$$ poured into Linton Street shouldn't affect any move our club might one day make SW.

As per with our previous ground at Outer Seaford (aka 'Halfway to Canberra' Oval ), the facilities funded at Moorabbin can be used by the community, and by community teams/groups. And no reason (at least that I'm aware of) why we couldn't keep a finger in the Danny Frawley Centre pie, even if we weren't at Moorabbin.

What we really really need is to have a boutique home ground for games against selected low-drawing teams.

At the very least, as an interim measure, we should be erecting temporary fencing around Linton Street. And crowd capacity isn't an issue. Here's a list of the venues that Gestapo HQ currently sanctions playing matches for premiership points at... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_A ... ue_grounds

And I note that the list is incomplete. How could they forget the Norwood Postage Stamp Oval, 10,000 capacity??? Or state of the art Summit Sports Park in Mount Barker, capacity 5000??? (With all of 270 of those punters under cover too.)


But most importantly. We really must get back to the JO! If for no other reason, than that we owe it to our long suffering saynta. He says that he doesn't want to go to his grave without seeing another Saintas' flag. And it would be an almost equally great shame if he was to also, take those bad memories of the JO to his grave.


So come on Saintas! Do it for saynta! And do it for Eastern, for Playon, for gaz! (Who have I missed?) And do it for all of us!

Mount Barker and Norwood are used for 1 weekend and the AFL is paid by the SA government to do so. Is the Vic Government going to pay them to play at the junction, moorabbin or anywhere else you want us to play at?

[Dave McNamara]

Fair point AN.

But I just remembered another ground missing from that list... Eureka Stadium in Ballarat, where the Dogs play a couple of games for Premeirship points each season.

Not paid to do so by the local council, nor even by local businesses. The 'upgrades' (I use that term loosely) were funded by the Vic State government.

The 'stadium' (I use that term loosely as well) holds all of 11,000 punters.





I'd also like to take this opportunity to reassure Lyin' Donald, JD Vance, Mark 'minisoldr' Robinson (aka, Dawks Pres' in waiting), and any members of any local KKK branches, that to date, there have been no credible reports of any Dogs being eaten by any members of Ballarat's Haitian community.

[ausfatcat]

JO is never a go, get over it. It's a folly and money pit. Zero benefit for the saints.