Did We Miss Crouch that Much In The Back Half?

[Vortex]

The Jack McCrae conversation got me thinking.

We certainly did in the first half of the season when the whips were cracking and teams were still fit and energetic.

But our game style seemed a zippier in the last 6 to 8 weeks and clearly we were winning without Crouchy.

Do midfields only need one battering ram these days and is Steele that guy?

The game is going through a major evolution via rule changes and it seems like the top four side midfields have more runners than bulls.

[B.M]

Ranked 17th for scores from stoppage

Clearance is our Achilles heel

[Scollop]

The conversation should be about recruiting. Wtf are our recruiters doing? Why is Ross Lyon potentially sabotaging our future once again?

What is St Kilda ultimately trying to achieve with the current list and especially our younger players?

Do we want them to take on leadership roles or are we only looking to import leadership every 3-4 years.
First it was Hannas, then Ryder and Hill, then Crouch...and now they want to do it again.

When will they learn? Do we want to forever be a middie of the ladder club?

Unless McCrae or ANY 30 year old is about to help us win a flag in the next 2 years it's crazy to bring in bog ordinary mids like McCrae. He's cooked

What is the net benefit to the team on field, when we bring in players who are nearing the end of their playing career?

Just Stop it Ross Stop bringing in 30 year olds

[spert]

The conversation should be about recruiting. Wtf are our recruiters doing? Why is Ross Lyon potentially sabotaging our future once again?

What is St Kilda ultimately trying to achieve with the current list and especially our younger players?

Do we want them to take on leadership roles or are we only looking to import leadership every 3-4 years.
First it was Hannas, then Ryder and Hill, then Crouch...and now they want to do it again.

When will they learn? Do we want to forever be a middie of the ladder club?

Unless McCrae or ANY 30 year old is about to help us win a flag in the next 2 years it's crazy to bring in bog ordinary mids like McCrae. He's cooked

What is the net benefit to the team on field, when we bring in players who are nearing the end of their playing career?

Just Stop it Ross Stop bringing in 30 year olds

Lyon was never brought in for a rebuild, Bassat and his mates want success ASAP, and will try anything.

[D.B.Cooper]

The conversation should be about recruiting. Wtf are our recruiters doing? Why is Ross Lyon potentially sabotaging our future once again?

Just Stop it Ross Stop bringing in 30 year olds

WTF?

Name one 30 YO Ross has recruited since he took over the club?
How is Ross potentially sabotaging our future?

Other than 26YO Bonner which I totally disagreed with, he's played:
Phillipou
Wilson
Shoenmaker
Garcia
McLennan
Hastie
Camanitti
Collard

Has moved on Billings, Ross.
Major recruits in Dow (though I am not a fan at all) and Henry (big fan) are in the right demographic.

Not sure where you are getting your information, but it certainly seems fabricated, unless you are privy to deals that are not public.

[D.B.Cooper]

Ranked 17th for scores from stoppage

Clearance is our Achilles heel

Yep, and got absolutely slaughtered out of the centre.

Is there a stat for scores from centre bounce clearances?
If there is we would rank 1st for scores against I'm guessing.

Crouch was VG in the first 1/2 of the season in 2023, I think he was certainly missed in the 1st 1/2 of 2024.

[realdeal]

The conversation should be about recruiting. Wtf are our recruiters doing? Why is Ross Lyon potentially sabotaging our future once again?

What is St Kilda ultimately trying to achieve with the current list and especially our younger players?

Do we want them to take on leadership roles or are we only looking to import leadership every 3-4 years.
First it was Hannas, then Ryder and Hill, then Crouch...and now they want to do it again.

When will they learn? Do we want to forever be a middie of the ladder club?

Unless McCrae or ANY 30 year old is about to help us win a flag in the next 2 years it's crazy to bring in bog ordinary mids like McCrae. He's cooked

What is the net benefit to the team on field, when we bring in players who are nearing the end of their playing career?

Just Stop it Ross Stop bringing in 30 year olds

What a strange post. Are you anti 30yo players or anti RL because RL didnt bring in any of the players you mentioned. In fact, did.t he play 6 1st year players this year? Not sure why you're relating the two.

Anyway, as to the lead post, good point but its argued we could've been even better in the back half of the season if we were could get a clean clearance to save ourselves besides relying on Marshall to yank out a clearance kick.
Not only could we not get a clearance but its often how the opposition scored themselves.

[Scollop]

The fact remains that McCrae was fit and healthy in 2024 and he was dropped to the VFL because of his misgivings.

We are chasing a player who was being squeezed out of the Bulldogs line up by first, second and third year players...because of weaknesses in his game.

Why do you guys think you understand footy better than a senior Premiership winning AFL coach? Beveridge dropped him and couldn't play him for 100 minutes (made him the sub multiple times) because he didn't trust McCrae had the legs to chase and tackle.

I challenge you to watch the Round 13 game between the Bulldogs and Adelaide. This is the game where I formed the view that McCrae is cooked. His best football is behind him

[B.M]

WB do have a stacked midfield

Bont - best player in the game
Treloar - AA this year
Libba - elite clearance player

[Killa]

Crouch led our Brownlow count in 2023

On that basis he was missed throughout 2024

On the attack on Lyon, most obviously a certain contributor is anti Lyon (and from his departure to Fremantle?)

Hence the blanket criticism no matter what

The Football Club from its Administrators to its employees including the Coaching panel to its players are charged with winning games of football week in and week out

And they work to that result

Obviously you do not win every game but that does not detract from the goal

Lyon is an experienced Coach and has assembled a credible support cast - and they’ve obviously have the support of the Board

[Killa]

And I would add that I held the greatest of regard for Brett - who was and is known to me - and what he was achieving at the Club (which was in a very poor position when he joined from Hawthorn) including focus on family (with Jo), his recognition of the lack of mid aged bodies which saw the recruiting including from State Leagues then going to the Draft and challenging our youth to surpass those of the older demographic

And Gallagher did a job here too

So we improved and improved markedly

Lyon has continued that improvement and is unrelenting (the players responding)

[Killa]

And I would add that I held the greatest of regard for Brett - who was and is known to me - and what he was achieving at the Club (which was in a very poor position when he joined from Hawthorn) including focus on family (with Jo), his recognition of the lack of mid aged bodies which saw the recruiting including from State Leagues then going to the Draft and challenging our youth to surpass those of the older demographic

And Gallagher did a job here too

So we improved and improved markedly

Lyon has continued that improvement and is unrelenting (the players responding)

[Scollop]

Crouch led our Brownlow count in 2023

On that basis he was missed throughout 2024

On that basis...

Huge mistake to get rid of Luke Dunstan and Jack Billings.

Both prolific in attaining Brownlow votes from the men in lime and yellow

[B.M]

Prolific?

Luke Dunstan
17 votes in 121 games

Jack Billings
32 votes in 171 games

Brad Crouch
61 votes in 161 games

Just for good measure
Jack McCrae
106 votes from 249 games

[shrodes]

Ranked 17th for scores from stoppage

Clearance is our Achilles heel

Yep, and got absolutely slaughtered out of the centre.

Is there a stat for scores from centre bounce clearances?
If there is we would rank 1st for scores against I'm guessing.

Crouch was VG in the first 1/2 of the season in 2023, I think he was certainly missed in the 1st 1/2 of 2024.

Not sure if it's tracked for scores against, but we were the second worst in the league for scoring from centre bounce.
Unsurprising given we also had the fewest centre bounce clearances of any team (beaten even by Richmond)

[repta]

Definitely missed Crouch grunt around the clearances. His big body helps. The inclusion of Clarke I believe helped. Not like for like but the Saints definitely improved when Clarke came in.

Is he essential... probably not
Dies he add yes
Is he better than the alternative... yes today. By August 2025 probably maybe.....

I would persist howeverthe big issue is his body. I think it is done

List clogger he is now. However it would be difficult finding a replacement at pick 60+

[Brunswicksainter]

Anyone know what the go with crouch is. I haven’t seen anything definitive about his injury and the media haven’t touched it. What is going on, how bad is his injury?

[B.M]

Bit of a fallacy that Crouch is a big body

He’d be about 6ft and is pretty lean. Much smaller man than Seb Ross and Jack Steele

He does aggressively hunt the footy at stoppage though, a tough hombre he is

He doesn’t win clearances through his size, he does it with aggression and craft

[Scollop]

Bit of a fallacy that Crouch is a big body

He’d be about 6ft and is pretty lean. Much smaller man than Seb Ross and Jack Steele

I agree.

Crouch has a bit of a boofhead so that makes you think he's bigger than he really is

[skeptic]

I guess it’s more in his style. Might not lay a big tackle or block, but he’s almost as tough as they come to actually getting to the ball and getting it out

[saynta]

Bit of a fallacy that Crouch is a big body

He’d be about 6ft and is pretty lean. Much smaller man than Seb Ross and Jack Steele

He does aggressively hunt the footy at stoppage though, a tough hombre he is

He doesn’t win clearances through his size, he does it with aggression and craft

Officially Crouch is listed as 186cm with Seb and Steele both listed at 187cm...just a cm taller

[B.M]

Listed height is about as accurate as Mitchell Johnson in England!

[Scollop]

Officially Crouch is listed as 186cm with Seb and Steele both listed at 187cm...just a cm taller

I stood next to both of them in the Social club rooms at Marvel before the Essendon game. There's virtually no difference between Seb's and Brad's height that I noticed

[skeptic]

Does anyone know if Crouch will actually retire cs waiting out his contract?

By all accounts he’s cooked regardless… am just wondering if we can pay him out now and replace him on the list.