Lessons for List Management Team

[Sanctorum]

In the 2014 NAB National Draft, St Kilda selected Paddy McCartin at Pick 1, ahead of Christian Petracca (2) and Jordan De Goey (5).

Paddy was a budding full forward but ended up playing just 35 games due to a series of severe concussions and was let go at the end of 2018, eventually resuming his career with the Swans in 2022, playing another 28 games before another head knock forced him to quit in 2023.

Both Petracca and De Goey became gun midfielders for their respective clubs, Melbourne and Collingwood.

In the 2018 NAB National Draft St Kilda selected Max King at Pick 4, ahead of Connor Rozee (5), Bailey Smith (7) and Zak Butters (12).

Max King came with an ACL injury that delayed his debut until 2020 and played almost every game in 2021/22/23 before being brought down with shoulder injuries that limited him to just 11 games in 2023 and 12 in the season just ended. He looked to be delivering on his promise in 2022 with 52 goals from 22 games (about 2.5 per game) which was OK but nothing out of the ordinary for your key marquee forward. He has attracted a lot of criticism from both the AFL media and supporters for his poor body language, his unwillingness to race into open space to present a marking target for the players upfield, and a bad case of the yips lining up for set shots on goal. Significantly, his identical twin brother Ben playing for Gold Coast Suns appears to have identical traits - in his last game on Saturday against Richmond he had just 5 touches and scored a solitary goal, which came from an uncontested mark in front of the goals in the first quarter....

In the meantime, both Connor Rozee and Zak Butters have become champion midfielders for Port Adelaide, the former captains the team, and Bailey Smith also a brilliant midfielder for Footscray.

Ross Lyon made a point in his post match press conference that the team's priority is to bring in an elite midfielder for next year. None of the journos there had the presence of mind to ask him why St Kilda passed over 5 outstanding midfield recruits in 2014 and 2018 anyone of whom would have made all the difference to St Kilda's prospects in the last few years!

Just as in politics there is the saying that at election time "it's the economy, stupid!", at the NAB Natonal Draft they should chant, "its the midfield, stupid!!"

[St Dave]

Not sure that this all needs to keep being re-examined, but the strategy behind taking both of these players was solid at the time. We needed a key forward coming to the end of the Riewoldt era and talls take longer to develop so you need to take them first, look at how we drafted after the Riewoldt/Kosi draft year for an example of the strategy. The very next year we get Ball/Dal Santo/Montagna and Goddard the year after and we are peaking as they develop together.

McCartin ended up being a bust due to concussion issues (amongst other things) and Max is still out only player to kick more than 50 goals in a season in almost a decade and just needs a good run with injury.

Our problem has been a combination of talent identification and the development of talent once they are in the doors. From the Seb Ross draft in 2011 until basically the Max King draft barely any have played more than 100 games with us and you could debate if the ones that we did keep really lived up to their potential. It is easy to say we should have taken this or that champion player with hindsight, but it wouldn't make much difference if we can't then develop them.

We could of taken Petracca in 2014 but we still would of had half a dozen drafts worth of players around that not doing enough. Looking at his attitude with Melbourne now, he would have requested a trade away from us 6 years ago.

Thankfully since 2021 our talent identification and development seems to have improved a lot, so we can only hope that continues going forward.

[Scollop]

Petracca is requesting a trade away from Melbourne because of a lot of reasons. He could put up with most of them, but the final straw was when they decided to risk his personal health, and possibly his health after his football career, for the sake of 4 points.

[St Dave]

Petracca is requesting a trade away from Melbourne because of a lot of reasons. He could put up with most of them, but the final straw was when they decided to risk his personal health, and possibly his health after his football career, for the sake of 4 points.

You posted that footy on 9 clip where amongst his reasons were playing in front of big crowds, lack of success and off field earnings, none of which he would have gotten at the Saints (unfortunately).

[Scollop]

Petracca is requesting a trade away from Melbourne because of a lot of reasons. He could put up with most of them, but the final straw was when they decided to risk his personal health, and possibly his health after his football career, for the sake of 4 points.

You posted that footy on 9 clip where amongst his reasons were playing in front of big crowds, lack of success and off field earnings, none of which he would have gotten at the Saints (unfortunately).

Do you believe that? I don't

I think he and his partner and family want out of that club. Relationships are fractured

I agree with everything else on your original post, especially regarding our development history

[Vortex]

We dodged a bullet with Patracca.

The first sign of trouble and what does he do, crap on his club and then tell them he wants to play for a big Melbourne club. Completely understandable considering the Covid Cup is all this current Melbourne list was able to achieve and Petraccas dump on his teammates clearly lets them know how little the Covid Cup means to him, and what he thinks about his teammates chances are of pinching a proper flag in a full strength comp.

Paddy was the right choice in the end.

[Scollop]

You can't begrudge someone for wanting to play...or coach a big Victorian club

https://thewest.com.au/sport/ross-lyon/ ... 881765733z

10 January 2021 - Lyon is said to have told confidants his only interest would be in coaching a big Victorian club

[B.M]

We dodged a bullet with Petracca

2 x B&F
5 times on the podium
Premiership
Norm Smith
190 games 185 goals
4 x AA

Yep
Dodged a bullet

[The_Dud]

We dodged a bullet with Petracca

2 x B&F
5 times on the podium
Premiership
Norm Smith
190 games 185 goals
4 x AA

Yep
Dodged a bullet

Yep, just another laughable opinion from Secret_Vortex!

[Vortex]

We dodged a bullet with Petracca

2 x B&F
5 times on the podium
Premiership
Norm Smith
190 games 185 goals
4 x AA

Yep
Dodged a bullet

All marvellous individual accolades except the tainted premiership, he and many other Melbourne players are on the record as saying they wanted to win a proper flag at the MCG in front of family and friends. This point burns within the Melbourne playing group.

What's the point of a star player if he craps on his club when the going gets tough, he has painted himself into a massive corner.

[The_Dud]

We dodged a bullet with Petracca

2 x B&F
5 times on the podium
Premiership
Norm Smith
190 games 185 goals
4 x AA

Yep
Dodged a bullet

All marvellous individual accolades except the tainted premiership, he and many other Melbourne players are on the record as saying they wanted to win a proper flag at the MCG in front of family and friends. This point burns within the Melbourne playing group.

What's the point of a star player if he craps on his club when the going gets tough, he has painted himself into a massive corner.

[Brunswicksainter]

We dodged a bullet with Petracca

2 x B&F
5 times on the podium
Premiership
Norm Smith
190 games 185 goals
4 x AA

Yep
Dodged a bullet

All marvellous individual accolades except the tainted premiership, he and many other Melbourne players are on the record as saying they wanted to win a proper flag at the MCG in front of family and friends. This point burns within the Melbourne playing group.

What's the point of a star player if he craps on his club when the going gets tough, he has painted himself into a massive corner.

Mate Petracca is 100% justified in his view of the club. If you frequented basically any CBD club last off season you would've seen Melbourne's "culture" first hand, completely justifies a "crapping on". Several key players on that list are heavy drug users including their prized midfielder who had/has? a serious GHB problem.

[St Dave]

Petracca is requesting a trade away from Melbourne because of a lot of reasons. He could put up with most of them, but the final straw was when they decided to risk his personal health, and possibly his health after his football career, for the sake of 4 points.

You posted that footy on 9 clip where amongst his reasons were playing in front of big crowds, lack of success and off field earnings, none of which he would have gotten at the Saints (unfortunately).

Do you believe that? I don't

I think he and his partner and family want out of that club. Relationships are fractured

I agree with everything else on your original post, especially regarding our development history

He was apparently driven to the point of being arrogant in his draft year interviews, so I think he absolutely wants all those things and probably the seriousness of his injury brought in to perspective how his career could be over at any minute (the point about off field/brand Petracca is the give away here) so he wants to hurry it all up.

The only thing that was maybe an exaggeration is his want for success given what Melbourne have achieved. He is clearly a champion individual player and the only thing that has really held them back from multiple premierships is coaching, all the talent is there.

Given he was apparently similarly driven/arrogant what Pou does over the next few seasons might be a good indication of what dragging Petracca might have been like for us. I expect he will jump pretty quick if it isn't looking like we aren't on the right trajectory for him.

[Vortex]

We dodged a bullet with Petracca

2 x B&F
5 times on the podium
Premiership
Norm Smith
190 games 185 goals
4 x AA

Yep
Dodged a bullet

All marvellous individual accolades except the tainted premiership, he and many other Melbourne players are on the record as saying they wanted to win a proper flag at the MCG in front of family and friends. This point burns within the Melbourne playing group.

What's the point of a star player if he craps on his club when the going gets tough, he has painted himself into a massive corner.

Mate Petracca is 100% justified in his view of the club. If you frequented basically any CBD club last off season you would've seen Melbourne's "culture" first hand, completely justifies a "crapping on". Several key players on that list are heavy drug users including their prized midfielder who had/has? a serious GHB problem.

So putting all of the supposed issues of culture at Melbourne to one side.

He's damaged goods now, he's put a line in the sand. With his club and teammates on one side, and himself on the other, and in the most public way. The wrong way to go about it.

Clearly won't be playing footy for Melbourne next year and you'd have to think his new teammates might have trust issues with him.

[Brunswicksainter]

We dodged a bullet with Petracca

2 x B&F
5 times on the podium
Premiership
Norm Smith
190 games 185 goals
4 x AA

Yep
Dodged a bullet

All marvellous individual accolades except the tainted premiership, he and many other Melbourne players are on the record as saying they wanted to win a proper flag at the MCG in front of family and friends. This point burns within the Melbourne playing group.

What's the point of a star player if he craps on his club when the going gets tough, he has painted himself into a massive corner.

Mate Petracca is 100% justified in his view of the club. If you frequented basically any CBD club last off season you would've seen Melbourne's "culture" first hand, completely justifies a "crapping on". Several key players on that list are heavy drug users including their prized midfielder who had/has? a serious GHB problem.

So putting all of the supposed issues of culture at Melbourne to one side.

He's damaged goods now, he's put a line in the sand. With his club and teammates on one side, and himself on the other, and in the most public way. The wrong way to go about it.

Clearly won't be playing footy for Melbourne next year and you'd have to think his new teammates might have trust issues with him.

I agree on the point he needs to leave Melbourne, surely they cannot welcome him back after everything that has suppodsly transpired?

Rumours are he wants to go to a big melbourne club with success on the horizon. This leaves really Collingwood and Carlton as the only viable options, no way collingwood could facilitate that trade, and Carlton will need to get Mckay to agree to leave and also give up picks on top of that. Both really outside the realms of possbility I think.

I actually think this leave us and the bulldogs in a unique position to acquire his services. We have both have players Melbourne really want (King, Marshall, Sinclair, Naughton, English) that you could absolutely see us part ways with if the right deal was to present. If the situation is so bad at Melbourne that he simply has to leave, he may not get much of a say in which club in the VIC market he goes to.

Not saying id be over the moon with this unfolding, but Trac is the one player gettable this year that could potentially remedy all our midfield issues and make us a bonified top 8 contender in 2025.

[Vortex]

We dodged a bullet with Petracca

2 x B&F
5 times on the podium
Premiership
Norm Smith
190 games 185 goals
4 x AA

Yep
Dodged a bullet

All marvellous individual accolades except the tainted premiership, he and many other Melbourne players are on the record as saying they wanted to win a proper flag at the MCG in front of family and friends. This point burns within the Melbourne playing group.

What's the point of a star player if he craps on his club when the going gets tough, he has painted himself into a massive corner.

Mate Petracca is 100% justified in his view of the club. If you frequented basically any CBD club last off season you would've seen Melbourne's "culture" first hand, completely justifies a "crapping on". Several key players on that list are heavy drug users including their prized midfielder who had/has? a serious GHB problem.

So putting all of the supposed issues of culture at Melbourne to one side.

He's damaged goods now, he's put a line in the sand. With his club and teammates on one side, and himself on the other, and in the most public way. The wrong way to go about it.

Clearly won't be playing footy for Melbourne next year and you'd have to think his new teammates might have trust issues with him.

I agree on the point he needs to leave Melbourne, surely they cannot welcome him back after everything that has suppodsly transpired?

Rumours are he wants to go to a big melbourne club with success on the horizon. This leaves really Collingwood and Carlton as the only viable options, no way collingwood could facilitate that trade, and Carlton will need to get Mckay to agree to leave and also give up picks on top of that. Both really outside the realms of possbility I think.

I actually think this leave us and the bulldogs in a unique position to acquire his services. We have both have players Melbourne really want (King, Marshall, Sinclair, Naughton, English) that you could absolutely see us part ways with if the right deal was to present. If the situation is so bad at Melbourne that he simply has to leave, he may not get much of a say in which club in the VIC market he goes to.

Not saying id be over the moon with this unfolding, but Trac is the one player gettable this year that could potentially remedy all our midfield issues and make us a bonified top 8 contender in 2025.

Possibly a top 8 contender but does that help us become a sustainable top 4 side? That's what I'd want to be sure of, he'd take up a huge chunk of the cap over 4 years minimum and he's fast approaching 30.

Wouldn't it just be a sugar hit for our young and developing side? Who really are still 2 to 3 years away from being a top 4 side, Trac would be well inside 30 by then. I'm inclined to be patient with this current build and keep going to the draft for 2 or 3 more years.

[Sanctorum]

I agree on the point he needs to leave Melbourne, surely they cannot welcome him back after everything that has suppodsly transpired?

Rumours are he wants to go to a big melbourne club with success on the horizon. This leaves really Collingwood and Carlton as the only viable options, no way collingwood could facilitate that trade, and Carlton will need to get Mckay to agree to leave and also give up picks on top of that. Both really outside the realms of possbility I think.

I actually think this leave us and the bulldogs in a unique position to acquire his services. We have both have players Melbourne really want (King, Marshall, Sinclair, Naughton, English) that you could absolutely see us part ways with if the right deal was to present. If the situation is so bad at Melbourne that he simply has to leave, he may not get much of a say in which club in the VIC market he goes to.

Not saying id be over the moon with this unfolding, but Trac is the one player gettable this year that could potentially remedy all our midfield issues and make us a bonified top 8 contender in 2025.

You're surely not suggesting St Kilda swap Marshall or Sinclair for Petracca, King I go along with. But Melbourne are going to ask for a hell of a lot more than just 1 or 2 players, they'll be after at least 1 frdp....I also expect Petracca would prefer to go to one of the big Victorian clubs, Geelong more than likely.

[SAINT-LEE]

I agree with the couldva shouldva

But, if he wouldve taken Jack Reiwoldt in 2007 like many wanted we wouldnt have needed a key forward and wouldve snagged Petracca...although we likely eouldnt have had the #1 draft pick. Jack had 17 yrs and smashed it.

[Killa]

But Melbourne recruited Dunstan and Billings.

[B.M]

They are not all individual accolades

Premiership is the ultimate team accolade
And he won the NS Medal to achieve it!!!

[Vortex]

They are not all individual accolades

Premiership is the ultimate team accolade
And he won the NS Medal to achieve it!!!

Covid Cups are like light beer, Petracca has a thirst for a full strength premiership.

[Scollop]

But Melbourne recruited Dunstan and Billings.

So logically...they should be really interested in Seb Ross Oh wait... he's not under contract. We could offer them Crouch

[B.M]

Dunstan - similar to Tom Campbell was a emergency back up if Oliver or Viney or Brayshaw went down - dirt cheap - I think he was a rookie

Billings
Well they got him for almost base salary (we paid half his wages) and nothing in the draft. He played 18 games. Was a bargain really

[Tommyj]

Not a chance I would take this bloke seems to me he has mental issues and still getting pat's on mamma's lap spoilt little brat melbourne forgot to change his nappies

[The G Train Legacy]

We dodged a bullet with Petracca

2 x B&F
5 times on the podium
Premiership
Norm Smith
190 games 185 goals
4 x AA

Yep
Dodged a bullet

What he's showing now, indicates that he would have left us, probably around 2018. Before he even hit anywhere near his peak and was playing mainly as a forward. Would Petracca (the player he was then) have made much difference to our fortunes in 2018? So it probably wouldn't have gone well for us.
If we had recruited Petracca would we have won a Premiership by now? I think not, he may have got us into Preliminary Final range this year and last if we managed to keep him.