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Scollop wrote: ↑Wed 31 Jul 2024 2:57pm
I know you're challenged but seriously FO mate
Each time he earns a contested possession he is winning a contested ball. Do you fkn know what that word means? It means the opposition has an equal chance of winning it!!
Each contested possession is won where the opposition is next to him. In some cases they have a better chance of getting it, but he is faster, moves into positions to guard the ball or puts them off balance or uses his strength to shake off tacklers.
Now listen to me again. The term contested should actually mean the ball is contested. You know putting your body in a position to take possession while getting contact. Thats a contested possession. Go back watch StKilda v Essendon 14 to go in the 3rd watch Hunter Clark win a contested possession and give it off.
I don't give a toss what the matrix is as its wrong.
You should read that abc article that was posted. Very interesting exploring how contested position is defined. Just because you don't like the definition doesn't make it wrong, you just want a different more specific stat
I'm saying that if someone said to you that 2 players both had 32 touches and 20 contested and one was Dangerfield the other was Brad Hill what goes through your mind.
I know how a contested possession is defined so I would know what it meant (Danger had a very good game and Hill played a blinder out of position).
Just read that article DB Cooper posted. It will save you all this stress, and you will know more about understanding football
Brad Hill is going to get 20 contested possessions
You heard it here first in fantasyland
Well with the definition of a contested possession he can and he doesn't have to make contact with another player.
A contest means there's a ball in dispute. Sometimes there'll be physical contact but not always
There's a footy to be won on the ground... or it's bouncing around...in each case there are multiple ways of winning the ball against an opponent who is right next to you...AND HAS AN EQUAL CHANCE OF GETTING THE SHERRIN
Obviously in most situations you have to get body contact on your opponent to unbalance them and give you time to grab it.... however
You can out run them by tapping the ball on and moving it in angles and arching your back and that would be without hardly any contact.
Do you want to remove ALL of Nicky's and Harv's contested ball stats because they did that?
Brad Hill is going to get 20 contested possessions
You heard it here first in fantasyland
Well with the definition of a contested possession he can and he doesn't have to make contact with another player.
A contest means there's a ball in dispute. Sometimes there'll be physical contact but not always
There's a footy to be won on the ground... or it's bouncing around...in each case there are multiple ways of winning the ball against an opponent who is right next to you...AND HAS AN EQUAL CHANCE OF GETTING THE SHERRIN
Obviously in most situations you have to get body contact on your opponent to unbalance them and give you time to grab it.... however
You can out run them by tapping the ball on and moving it in angles and arching your back and that would be without hardly any contact.
Do you want to remove ALL of Nicky's and Harv's contested ball stats because they did that?
Listen to me. I don't want anything removed I don't care who got what. I'm saying that using stats it doesn't tell you the whole story.
Let me use an even simpler example.
Jack Steeles second goal on the weekend. Now he gets the goal credited to him which is fine as he kicked it but using a goal like that to determine votes or bests doesn't tell the story.
Disclaimer this isn't a go at Jack Steele just an example
It's not complex CURLY. Most of us agree with your general premise. That's not the issue I had. As St Dave has said to you. Read the abc article.
I've been posting for years about the difference between some possessions and others.... I got shut down by some forumites when I criticised Sebby's stats in 2019...then I did the same regarding Brad Crouch last year.
What I did though...was I highlighted specific passages of play...I didn't start a thread talking about crap in general about no one in particular
You then identified Daicos and you said something which is a lie. 100% of footy experts and coaches and footy followers would see Daicos's first quarter and tell you they were genuine contested possessions
Last edited by Scollop on Wed 31 Jul 2024 7:00pm, edited 1 time in total.
Scollop wrote: ↑Wed 31 Jul 2024 6:55pm
It's not complex CURLY. Most of us agree with your general premise. That's not the issue I had. As St Dave has said to you. Read the abc article.
I've been posting for years about the difference between some possessions and others.... I got shut down by some forumites when I criticised Sebby's stats in 2019...then I did the same regarding Brad Crouch last year.
What I did though...was I highlighted specific passages of play...I didn't start a thread talking about crap in general about no one in particular
I disagree with what you regard as contested what’s your problem.
Scollop wrote: ↑Wed 31 Jul 2024 7:02pm
100% of footy experts and coaches and footy followers would see Daicos's first quarter and tell you they were genuine contested possessions
I couldn't give a stuff if Nick Daicos keels over tomorrow and never plays another game of footy in his life...but the leaderboard in the coaches award has 16/20 players who are rated mostly for contested ball.
Most of them get more inside ball than outside ball, but Nick still probably gets 40% genuine contested possessions. Against Richmond -18 of his 42 were cp. He had 11 clearances
CURLY understands football better than AFL coaches
Scollop wrote: ↑Wed 31 Jul 2024 7:16pm
I couldn't give a stuff if Nick Daicos keels over tomorrow and never plays another game of footy in his life...but the leaderboard in the coaches award has 16/20 players who are rated mostly for contested ball.
Most of them get more inside ball than outside ball, but Nick still probably gets 40% genuine contested possessions. Against Richmond -18 of his 42 were cp. He had 11 clearances
CURLY understands football better than AFL coaches
interesting that 48% of contested balls are loose ball gets which are basically uncontested, so why are they included at all? interesting also that nick daicos gets four times as many loose ball gets as hard ball gets, whereas patrick cripps has an almost fifty/fifty ratio of loose and hard ball gets.
in the end i guess a high number of loose ball gets represents an ability to stay away from physical contests but have a sense of awareness about where the ball will spill. whereas hard ball gets represents a willingness and ability to get dirty and win the ball body on body.
so i see where curly is going with this. 'contested possessions' is a misleading name. it can mean hitting a contest or fighting to win possessions, but far more often means picking up a loose ball whether anyone else is there or not.
"The starting point of all achievement is desire. "
Lachie Neale has very high numbers for loose ball gets. So does Caleb Serong...so does Tom Greene
But...they also get their fair share of other contested footy. They're all getting lots of clearances
Daicos had 11 clearances on the weekend and 2 of those came from stoppages very early in the game. CURLY reckons he had zero genuine contested possessions in the first 5 minutes
Scollop wrote: ↑Wed 31 Jul 2024 8:22pm
Lachie Neale has very high numbers for loose ball gets. So does Caleb Serong...so does Tom Greene
But...they also get their fair share of other contested footy. They're all getting lots of clearances
Daicos had 11 clearances on the weekend and 2 of those came from stoppages very early in the game. CURLY reckons he had zero genuine contested possessions in the first 5 minutes
You win CURLY
Are you only now just realising that Curly will regularly blatantly lie about things that we can all clearly see on the broadcast? Almost like he doesn’t realise replays exist!
All posters are equal, but some posters are more equal than others.
Scollop wrote: ↑Wed 31 Jul 2024 8:22pm
Lachie Neale has very high numbers for loose ball gets. So does Caleb Serong...so does Tom Greene
But...they also get their fair share of other contested footy. They're all getting lots of clearances
Daicos had 11 clearances on the weekend and 2 of those came from stoppages very early in the game. CURLY reckons he had zero genuine contested possessions in the first 5 minutes
You win CURLY
Are you only now just realising that Curly will regularly blatantly lie about things that we can all clearly see on the broadcast? Almost like he doesn’t realise replays exist!
Again Mr Know nothing comments without anything football.
Lie did I ? Scollop posted Daicos first 5 touches most he was not touched by opposition and he said as much. I don’t believe that’s a contested possession. You can think what you like Bozo.
CURLY wrote: ↑Wed 31 Jul 2024 9:20pm
Or maybe two players don’t lay a hand on him even though they’re only inches away from him.
That's not what I said. Good try though
If someone bumps and moves you off the ball, does that qualify in your mind as a contest?
If someone...or two oppo players are tackling you and within inches of stopping you from getting your clean hball away, is that a contested possession?
CURLY wrote: ↑Wed 31 Jul 2024 9:20pm
Or maybe two players don’t lay a hand on him even though they’re only inches away from him.
That's not what I said.
If someone bumps and moves you off the ball, does that qualify in your mind as a contest?
If someone...or two oppo players are tackling you and within inches of stopping you from getting your clean hball away, is that a contested possession?
Watch the replay CURLY.
You said Richmond players virtually inches away from him. I mean players 50mm away and not one tackled.
Look it’s not the point of the thread but I will repeat contested possessions need to be contested.
CURLY wrote: ↑Sun 28 Jul 2024 5:21pm
Daicos had 3 contested possessions in the first 5 minutes. Not one was he in a contested situation. The way these stats are measured are just not a true indication of a player.
The glow is an outright lie. You're making up s*** to justify your prejudice towards an individual.
This second sentence
The way these stats are measured are just not a true indication of a player.
What's the true indication of a player? Especially a player leading the votes for the AFLCA award and just about everything else
The coaches are rating all his contested possessions incorrectly ate they CURLY?
Like everyone on Saintsational is rating Ryan Byrnes incorrectly when he has a good game?
Last edited by Scollop on Wed 31 Jul 2024 10:04pm, edited 1 time in total.
