Stats are a garbage argument

[walkingslug]

OP needs to lay off the shabs

[B.M]

Ross only ever quotes stats when reviewing or doing a presser

[CURLY]

Ross only ever quotes stats when reviewing or doing a presser

Yel im sure there’s measures he uses not sure he takes them literally.

[B.M]

Stats generally tell a story and help you find trends/patterns

[CURLY]

Stats generally tell a story and help you find trends/patterns

They do although they don’t tell you more than what you see watching.

[B.M]

I disagree

Watching the game of footy as a novice and giving an opinion

Carries way less weight

Than some who states facts

[B.M]

Ie/

People say Hunter Clark has been playing well

Stats don’t support that

He’s just going

[CURLY]

Ie/

People say Hunter Clark has been playing well

Stats don’t support that

He’s just going

Watch how often he gets first hands on an actual contested ball. Puts himself in dangerous spots.

[B.M]

That’s your opinion- what you see

The actual numbers for him average or below average

He is a good player

He is not playing that great

[CURLY]

That’s your opinion- what you see

The actual numbers for him average or below average

He is a good player

He is not playing that great

That’s your opinion based on the numbers you want to use.

[St Dave]

I can understand what Curly is getting at.
Stats are over rated, overdone and unclear, and often give a false impression.
I reckon there would be many occasions where you could pick certain stats to make a point and then cherry pick others to reverse the argument.

Look at score involvements a one two handball at HB can lead to you getting credited with a score involvement

For one, a score involvement is not a goal assist. If you are involved in a continuous chain of possession that results in a score that is a score assist. Useful for seeing players that use the ball productively but might not get straight up goal assists (eg defenders). Two defenders with equal possessions and disposal efficiency but one has no score involvements might mean that player is giving the ball to players who might be in bad positions or under pressure where they then lose the ball.

Almost as if stats are context dependent. Is a lot of tackles good because you are putting pressure on the opposition? Or is it bad because you are second to the ball?

[CURLY]

I can understand what Curly is getting at.
Stats are over rated, overdone and unclear, and often give a false impression.
I reckon there would be many occasions where you could pick certain stats to make a point and then cherry pick others to reverse the argument.

Look at score involvements a one two handball at HB can lead to you getting credited with a score involvement

For one, a score involvement is not a goal assist. If you are involved in a continuous chain of possession that results in a score that is a score assist. Useful for seeing players that use the ball productively but might not get straight up goal assists (eg defenders). Two defenders with equal possessions and disposal efficiency but one has no score involvements might mean that player is giving the ball to players who might be in bad positions or under pressure where they then lose the ball.

Almost as if stats are context dependent. Is a lot of tackles good because you are putting pressure on the opposition? Or is it bad because you are second to the ball?

Or maybe the bloke they give it to kicks it out in the full or gets caught after loping along.

[St Dave]

Go watch moneyball and tell us what you think after that

[St Dave]

I can understand what Curly is getting at.
Stats are over rated, overdone and unclear, and often give a false impression.
I reckon there would be many occasions where you could pick certain stats to make a point and then cherry pick others to reverse the argument.

Look at score involvements a one two handball at HB can lead to you getting credited with a score involvement

For one, a score involvement is not a goal assist. If you are involved in a continuous chain of possession that results in a score that is a score assist. Useful for seeing players that use the ball productively but might not get straight up goal assists (eg defenders). Two defenders with equal possessions and disposal efficiency but one has no score involvements might mean that player is giving the ball to players who might be in bad positions or under pressure where they then lose the ball.

Almost as if stats are context dependent. Is a lot of tackles good because you are putting pressure on the opposition? Or is it bad because you are second to the ball?

Or maybe the bloke they give it to kicks it out in the full or gets caught after loping along.

Yeah, that is where the context I mentioned is important.

[The_Dud]

I don't think anyone is surprised that Curly doesn't let stats/data get in the way of a good cry

[CURLY]

I don't think anyone is surprised that Curly doesn't let stats/data get in the way of a good cry

Don't think anyone's surprised you have nothing of substance to add.

[D.B.Cooper]

I don't think anyone is surprised that Curly doesn't let stats/data get in the way of a good cry

Don't think anyone's surprised you have nothing of substance to add.

So you think you’re adding substance Curly?

It took about 8 posters to query your OP and me to decipher your drivel before anyone knew what you were trying to write.

Next time I suggest you post a link to the article that formed the basis of your opinion, then we won’t have to endure your nonsensical rubbish posts trying to comprehend your point.

[Beno88]

Here's an interesting stat...

R3 vs Essendon - 24 shots from 51 inside 50s for a return of 9.13.67

R20 vs Essendon - 24 shots from 43 inside 50s for a return of 17.6.108

Conversion stats ain't garbage.

[CURLY]

I don't think anyone is surprised that Curly doesn't let stats/data get in the way of a good cry

Don't think anyone's surprised you have nothing of substance to add.

So you think you’re adding substance Curly?

It took about 8 posters to query your OP and me to decipher your drivel before anyone knew what you were trying to write.

Next time I suggest you post a link to the article that formed the basis of your opinion, then we won’t have to endure your nonsensical rubbish posts trying to comprehend your point.

Here comes Zig to back up Zag.

No article just a general observation.

[D.B.Cooper]

I don't think anyone is surprised that Curly doesn't let stats/data get in the way of a good cry

Don't think anyone's surprised you have nothing of substance to add.

So you think you’re adding substance Curly?

It took about 8 posters to query your OP and me to decipher your drivel before anyone knew what you were trying to write.

Next time I suggest you post a link to the article that formed the basis of your opinion, then we won’t have to endure your nonsensical rubbish posts trying to comprehend your point.

Here comes Zig to back up Zag.

No article just a general observation.

Lol, Curly has an original opinion

Curly knows football

[CURLY]

I don't think anyone is surprised that Curly doesn't let stats/data get in the way of a good cry

Don't think anyone's surprised you have nothing of substance to add.

So you think you’re adding substance Curly?

It took about 8 posters to query your OP and me to decipher your drivel before anyone knew what you were trying to write.

Next time I suggest you post a link to the article that formed the basis of your opinion, then we won’t have to endure your nonsensical rubbish posts trying to comprehend your point.

Here comes Zig to back up Zag.

No article just a general observation.

Lol, Curly has an original opinion

Curly knows football

Another fantastic contribution by you Buzzard. Do you actually talk football or just try and insult people. Just boring to be honest.

[SaintWiki]

To quote an old Tassy saying, stats are a "handy bit of patch" but we all know its just an element. Another old Tassy saying is "There's a few Rummon's on Saintsational".

[Scollop]

Let’s try this…

Why is this on your mind Curly?

Daicos had 3 contested possessions in the first 5 minutes. Not one was he in a contested situation. The way these stats are measured are just not a true indication of a player.

OMG, I speak Curly

Unfortunately to many run to stats and use them as there only justification as to a players performance.

And who is this 'too many' that CURLY speaks of?

None other than a former AFL coach. Sorry...long post but bare with me please.

Unfortunately...my Mrs is a Collingwood supporter. She couldn't go to the game yesterday afternoon and so we watched the replay today.

So...I got my pad out and wrote down every contested disposal for Nick Daicos in that first 20 minutes and how he got them. I ignored any hb receives or marks etc.

1. Stoppage deep in Richmond's forward line. Ball thrown in from boundary goes to ground. At least 4-5 Richmond players around (virtually within inches). Nick picks up and quickly handballs.

2. Naicos follows up because his hb missed it's target. A Richmond player picked up the ball and was trying to kick. Naicos smothers...collects another contested ground ball and gives off a hball before being tackled by 2 Richmond players.

3. High ball kicked to the wing. D Cameron in marking contest. Naicos front and ctre collects footy. 2 Richmond players just miss intercepting his hball.

Again a contested possession.

4. Forward of wing but not at CHF, 4 Collingwood players vs 2 Richmond. Ground ball to be won. The Collingwood players shepherd Naicos to give him enough time to pick up and kick it forward. Again the heat is there within inches.

5. Pies kick goal number 3. Ball in the ctre. There's a secondary ball up and it's another genuine contested ball win. Naicos gets a kick while getting tackled.

AGAIN a ground ball in dispute and we're not talking about a player loose in the normal meaning of the word 'loose'. Its a stoppage ffs!!

6. Ball up in the ctre after a Collingwood goal to Will Hoskin-Elliot. It's Naicos versus 3 Richmond players to win the ground ball after the ruck tap. Naicos bench presses one of the Richmond players (no. 7) to give himself enough time to win the ball. It's considered a ground ball get because the footy AGAIN is in dispute. There's genuine heat from 3 Richmond blokes - no.7 and the ruckman no. 32 and he's got Prestia (no. 3) about to tackle him. He gets a disposal with a handball

With 5 minutes to go in the first quarter one of the 'expert comments' guys on Foxfooty said Naicos had 11 touches (mostly contested) and 5 of these were ground ball gets.

Only an absolutely one eyed St Kilda fan...or a really 'special' type would say that Daicos got his contested ground ball gets while being "loose" and no one within "10 metres of him".

CURLY thinks he knows more than Nathan Buckley about Aussie rules.

[Scollop]

In general you can say anything and there's probably going to be some merit in saying that 'stats' are bulls***... but you have to be able to back it up with evidence or something specific.

Remember... this is why CURLY felt the need to start this thread. His whole argument is based on a lie

Daicos had 3 contested possessions in the first 5 minutes. Not one was he in a contested situation.

[Scollop]

A contested possession is when a player gains possession in a physical contest. Actually keeping your eye on the ball knowing an opponent will put physical contact on you.

Not a loose ball when you’re ten meters clear.

If anyone doesn't rate Nick Daicos's ability to win contested footy I challenge you to put on the replay of the first quarter yesterday. Watch his first 5 possessions in slow motion

Yes ..I know it's fkn Collingwood and who gives a flying f***... but seriously...if you love footy, you have to admire talent - no matter what jumper they're wearing.